So many questions

Hi All,

A few of months ago we (Myself, wife and 2 kids)started considering Sulpher Crested Cockatoo ownership and so the research began. The result of it all was that it was decided that this would not be a good thing for us, however as the kids really had their hearts set on a bird ownership (And I must admit I was really warming to the idea)as they appear to be so interactive and a little "left of centre" as far as pet choice is concerned (I ruled out cats and dogs years ago for various reasons) the search was on for an alternative.

Whilst out and about investigating Cockatiels, discovered the Indian Ringneck and Alexandrine parrots and over the last few weeks have been impressed by what I have learned about these creatures.

I am well aware that the task of ownership will still be demanding and as a family we need to make a commitment to providing the bird with more than just food and water and we must all be involved with its rearing.

To this end, I recently paid a deposit to a breeder (for a male Alexandrine) with excellent feedback on a number of sites, but also has a fantastic phone manner and has invited us to come and inspect his operation, the deposit is simply to secure a place in the waiting list, there is still no obligation to finally consummate the transaction

We will only be collecting the new addition to the family after it is weened and has had some basic training (step up...but not sure what else)

But I still have heaps of questions, and will continue to trawl through the forums to garner as much info as I can.

One thing I haven't been able to discover as yet is although I am aware of the type and variety of diet this type of bird needs, I can't find any indication of quantity. How much do these birds eat?

Also, while I am here rabbitting on, are there any questions you guys could think I should ask of the breeder that may not appear on a regular list of FAQ's?

Thanks for any help, I will probably be making a convenience of you for a fair while.

HARRY

Hello Harry, welcome to the forums.....while there is a wealth of knowledge & experience in the membership around here, I have never seen any chart or table of specie specific food consumption, so you're probably going to have to create your own after you bring your new family member home.....I don't know how many will be of any interest to you, but if you search the forum with "alexandrine diet" you'll get some 77 hits.....

While I'm sure the forums owners prefer you do your searching/researching within the forums, that is not always realistically prudent, so did a quick search of birdlife.org & produced this info: "This species inhabits a variety of moist and dry forests and woodlands, as well as cultivated areas, mangroves and plantations, mainly below 900 m, but reaching c.1,600 m locally (Juniper and Parr 1998). In Cambodia, the species inhabits dry deciduous forest and degraded semi-evergreen forest, but also riverine forest, in the lowlands mostly below 300 m (F. Goes in litt. 2013). It feeds on a range of wild and cultivated seeds, flowers, flower buds, nectar, grain, fruit and vegetables (Juniper and Parr 1998). It is considered a serious pest in some areas, with c.70% of its diet in farmed areas of Pakistan attributed to crops. It nests in tree cavities, palms, and very rarely buildings, and generally breeds from November to April, depending on the location (Juniper and Parr 1998)."


In reality, you sometimes need to search elsewhere.....

Good luck & enjoy your stay around here.....

Hello Harry and welcome!
I have an Alex (Xander), and I just adore him. I think it is fantastic that you are doing research before he even joins your family
Xander gets a mix of seeds and pellets, and fresh veggies twice a day. He does not have a huge appetite, but does eat well. The quantity is something that you can figure out once he is home, since it can be a little different even for birds of the same species.
I am so glad you joined us! There are a few of us with Alexes on the forum.

G'day from me too, Harry. My Alexes (the Beaks) are called Barney and Madge.

I keep at least a cup of pellets in each of their feed dishes at all times. Every morning, they each get a half-cup of mixed seeds and a cup of mixed vegetables. Mid-afternoon, I give them some fruit, depending on what I have handy. Sliced apple? Pear? Banana? For dinner, they get another half-cup of mixed seeds and, perhaps, some more veggies, depending on whether they ate their morning meal.

You have to be careful not to leave moist veggies or fruit to decompose for too long in the cage, so be sure to remove everything except seed or pellets before you bed your bird down at night. Here in Australia, vegetable material goes nasty very quickly in the summer time and attracts hordes of fruit flies. Ick!

I also share whatever I happen to be eating with my birds. So, for example, if I happen to have a cup of ramen noodles for lunch, first I have to whip around and share bits of the dry noodles with all the birds. They get very dirty on me if I don't! If you search the forum, you'll find lists of safe (and unsafe) foods for your bird. Don't worry too much about quantities as few birds overeat: just feed till he's satisfied. Avoid giving too much fatty food (that would include sunflower and safflower seeds, which are very oily) and you won't go wrong.

Once your new bird is settled at home, you can begin training him. Don't be afraid to ask questions as everyone here is happy to help!

As far as searching the forums goes, yes of course you can find lots of info here! There's lots of info elsewhere as well. When I was a newbie to Alexandrines, I found myself bombarded with so many different opinions about diet, housing and training, I was overwhelmed. I would suggest you choose a source of info and stick with it if you find it trustworthy. Save yourself a lot of brain-wracking! LOL! I was so relieved when I found this forum because I got a consistent response from most members and quick answers to my questions. Alexandrines are not exactly like other species: they have their little foibles (which I find utterly delightful). It really helps to be in touch with other Alex owners who've been there, done that. We even have a couple of members who live in the native lands of Alexandrines - I've found their experiences very interesting.

As weco suggests, wild Alexandrines certainly do eat various flowers, buds, seeds and fruits. They also love to chew on bark and wood. What's difficult is that many kinds of flowers and woods are toxic, so you can't just shove any old thing into your cages. This is where questions help again. We have lists of safe woods and plants here on the forum, but you can ask at any time and we'll help if we know the answer.

The most important thing of all, though, is that we LOVE to see pics of new members' birds. Please don't be afraid to post yours when your new baby arrives. Can't wait to meet him!

Hi Harry and welcome to the forums. I have a female alex and her name is Bundii.

As far as food goes, she has a mix of pellets and seeds that are available all day in one of the cage bowls. The others are filled with water. She likes to bathe in her water bowl so I like to have plenty of options so that there is still a fresh one for drinking. I work during the day, so am often away from the house for 9-10 hours at a time.

Like Trish said, the fruits and vegs go bad really quickly in our Australian heat so I tend not to leave them out while I am work. This is why I leave the bowl with the pellets and seeds available at all times.

As I start early in the morning, I give Bundii her fresh foods in the afternoons/evenings. She usually gets whatever I happen to have in the fridge but generally consists of the following: quarter of Apple, ring of a small capsicum, 2-3 cm piece of celery, 2 x 2-3 cm pieces of carrot (her favourite), 1-2 seedless grapes, 3-4 snow peas/sugar snaps, couple of wilted leaves of kale chopped finely (this is not her favourite and this is why it is chopped finely), 2-3 blueberries and a strawberry. Now this all depends on if she had had anything else during the day if I am at home or simply if the moon is not pointing in the right direction.

They can be picky at times. Generally speaking Bundii will eat anything you give her but if she is not in the mood for food then she will just toss it out of the bowl. it might seem like a lot and she certainly does not eat all of that. But I always allow for the tossing factor. They usually is quite a bit of that.

Please ask if you have any other questions on the beautiful Alex's.

Wow,

thanks to you all for the quick and helpful responses .

Another area I am looking into is that of cages. and Play gyms. I want the bird to have a an area of its own outside the cage other than the top of the cage as I have read in a number of places that you do not want the bird spending too much time looking down at you.

To this end it doesn't really matter what I purchase for me as I am 2 meters tall, however the "Leader of the Opposition" and the kids are significantly shorter. Pretty sure the kids will continue to grow, little hope for the "Little woman" though.

But I digress...there seem to be many offerings on Ebay for large cages with feeding trays along with play gyms on casters so we can move it around the house.

They all seem to be offering a powder coated finish for both the cage and gym. Is this safe for an Alexandrine considering I have also read they will chew everything they can get their significant beaks on, or is there a better alternative?

Once again, thanking you all in advance.

HARRY

So I took the family out today to meet the breeder and ask a whole bunch of other questions and queries. The greatest thing was reconfirming how stunningly beautiful and clever these creatures really are. Prior to today I had only ever seen one pair and had had zero interaction, my purchasing decision had been based solely on what I had read about the species, but I am now really excited to get one and so is the rest of the crew.

I am really concerned about introducing our new family member into the home the right way, as this will set the tone of the relationship for a long while to come.

We have been looking at cages and are of the understanding that you should provide the bird with the largest cage you can fit/afford into your house. We have also concluded that if we can successfully care for a single bird there is a great likelihood that we may introduce more into the house over time and so a cage that would allow for co-habitation would not be a bad thing.

To this end we are looking at a cage suitable for something larger so it will have plenty of room for itself and we can provide it with many stimulating toys. Even though the bird will arrive home having been clipped we do not intend to continue doing so after its first molt, and so providing it enough space to exercise and fly whilst we are out is also important..

My question for today is...considering these specimens can take some time to adjust to their new surroundings, am I better off introducing the bird to a virtually barren cage (Perches and food bowls excepted), and introduce toys and other stimuli slowly over time, or do we just set it up and expect him to just deal with it all?

My rationale at this stage is that if the cage is fairly empty and we have toys on the outside, as the bird becomes accustomed to having us around it will want to come out of its cage more readily as that is where the fun is going to be happening, so that as toys are introduced into the cage the bird will learn that it can have an enjoyable, positive experience both inside and outside its cage.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanx for you help.

HARRY

Consider all that you have read as a starting point.....as long as your breeder provides suitable human interaction with the fledglings, the transition to your home should not be too much of a traumatic experience for your new family member, though there will be some as everything will be new and different.....as to acquaintance with toys, you will just have to wait and see...some birds are inquisitive and will check things out, while others may be intimidated by things that are new & never before seen.....hopefully your new feathered friend will be a curious bird, but each is an individual, much like children and like children, be ready to start its training and yours upon arrival.....you will want to establish boundaries for biting and screaming at least.....good luck.....

OK, so I had a quick chat with the breeder and we are at least 4 weeks from ownership, but if we have to wait for the next clutch then we are looking at a touch over 2 months.

This has not deterred me and I have already purchased a cage (It's about 3' wide x 2'6" deep x 5' high, not including the seed apron) and a bunch of toys, but I am just thinking, how far do I go in terms of setting the cage up prior to the bird's arrival?

Being a timid creature and coming from an environment where there were no toys (just other birds) should I wait till he starts to settle in before introducing these brightly coloured foreign objects, that all have a bell on the end of them?

What's with the bells?

Cheers
HARRY

Hi, Harry. I've had my Alexandrine, Gale, for a couple months now. I absolutely love her. One thing I'd like to warn you about that I haven't seen mentioned yet(forgive me if I missed it) is the "bluffing" stage. It usually happens while they are younger, and then periodically as they get older. Gale is already past her stage because of the way we handled it.

What that means is, if you offer your hand to ask him "stepup", he may pin his eyes or lunge at your hand. Do NOT pull away or react dramatically, as he will learn he can boss you around with his beak, and he will continue to do so. Especially not good for the kids. What I did is if she lunged, I just moved my hand closer so my hand usually ended up near her chest, and she would step up then. She's bitten me a few times but nothing worse than a scratch or bruise.

Also, what you mentioned earlier is "height dominance" and its just a theory/opinion. My birds have places where they can sit above me and I have no more issues with them behaving than I do if they were at eye-level.

Regarding your questions about cages/toys, fill it up! Put all sorts of interesting things in there! I went to visit Gale at the breeders every week for about three months before she came home. When I went to visit I brought her different wood toys, plastic toys, and even an aviator harness for her to play with so she could be familiar with those things. It took her less than a day before she was all over everything, playing with every single one of her toys in her cage and on her play stand.

Oh-- bells, make sure they are stainless steel(along with any other metal that is in his cage) and remove the ringer. Parrots can chew that off and it becomes a hazard. They make stainless steel bells that are bird-safe, but your regular bell isn't always the safest thing.

And yes, power coating is safe, as long as you check it every few months for rust/chipped paint (not likely to happen aside from busy areas, like door latches and such) A decent quality cage should last you a few years.

Also, Alexandrines aren't very "hands on" birds. Which means they enjoy being on you, near you, and things of the like, but if you try to pat his head he may look at you like you've got two heads! Gale will let us lay her on her back in a hand, and if she's exceptionally happy we can sneak in a touch of her super soft cheek feathers. But for the most part she isn't fond of most touching, although she loves to sit on your shoulder and play with your hair. It doesn't mean she loves us any less, we just have a mutual respect for boundaries.

Hope to see pictures of your baby soon, I'm so excited for you!

One thing I'd add about bells is that Alexandrines are really, really powerful chewers. It doesn't take much for them to completely dismember most little dingly bells and, potentially, eat the tiny flakes of metal that chip off. This metal is almost certainly toxic (that is, probably nickel or zinc or even contains traces of copper etc) and the poisoning that results is cumulative and deadly. We have had too many cases of metal toxicity causing deaths here at the forum not to mention it!

Since the Beaks demolished their first bell (a Liberty bell type) and I found Madge chomping on the clapper, I have been wary and don't use any bells at all. I remove them from toys before adding them to my cage. Instead, I found a pipe bell, which is a length of pipe with a clapper too far up inside the pipe for the birds to reach. Admittedly, they don't dong on it as often as they liked to peck at the Liberty bell, but better safe than sorry.

For sound stimulation, I found a couple of excellent baby's pram toys at an Op Shop. They have buttons which, when pecked, will 'speak' with an electronic sound or Elmo's voice. Madge loves them! Barney, not so much. More recently, I've found a voice recording module used for toy-making. My plan is to rewire the switch so it'll be safe for the Beakies to peck at - then they'll have a toy that plays my own voice to them.

Here's the update,

We now have a young male Alexandrine in our house.

It has been about 48 hours and we are all taking it very slowly. It took him about 30 minutes to come out of his flight box and get to the highest point he could in the cage.

Yesterday we were becoming concerned that he was not going down to his food bowl so we tried feeding him by hand through the cage which he was amenable to.

We got home this afternoon to find him eating from his food bowl and he is still happy to take food from our hands.

I know we have to go slow with him and let him dictate the pace that our relationship moves at, but what I don't know is what to look for as to when he will be ready for the next step.

IE: How do I know when he will be ready to come out of the cage and actually start training?

How do I get him out? etc...

I have read so much about how to manage the training, but I was not prepared for pre-training.

Cheers

If your bird isn't acting scared, there's no need to go super slow in training him. Every handfed bird I've brought home has been running around and learning tricks the same day they showed up. You can leave the cage door open and let him come out on his own, or you can offer your hand inside his cage, with food on your palm so he steps on it. If he was handled and isn't showing fear, you could just offer your hand normally and he'll step right up.

A lot of training is really passive. Do things around your bird like eating, reading, watching tv, folding clothes, etc and it will get a better sense of you. Likewise pay attention to the bird's body language, and you'll eventually learn when it's happy, angry, needs to poop, etc.

As for cuddling, ringnecks generally don't enjoy petting so much, but I can finally say that after two years mine loves it, so some things may take time (though every ringneck I've ever encountered have loved kisses, face snuggles, and oddly enough, being petted by your nose or feet).

With all the birds I had over the years I have never encountered Bluffing with any of them. Generally the Alexandrine is not as cuddly as some birds but then again, each bird is different. I still don't understand why some people say that Alexandrine are not a very "hands on" birds or they are a "one person" bird. Delfin is fine with my family, has we all take turns in the training. This social interaction is needed by any flock / herd animal. We play pass the bird around. We can pick Delfin up, give him a head rub then put him back down. There are times when Delfin will fly to me and go to sleep on my shoulder. The Alexandrine is a gentle giant. Delfin has never bitten us.

The hard truth is that parrot biting is triggered by the behavior of the humans that parrot spends time with. While this may not be something that parrot owners want to hear, how a human interacts with the parrot he/she spends time with, plays a role in how the bird responds and ultimately whether it will develop undesirable and potentially dangerous biting behavior. When a bird bites, it’s usually because they are being handle carelessly. (This most likely why birds are rehomed) Treat each bite as a learning experience in how not to handle parrots.

One of the best ways to keep from been bitten, is to learn to read the bird’s body language and what triggers a bird to bite. Learning to read the parrot’s body language will help Understand why a bird bites and identify the triggers that causes these bites. When these circumstances exist, keep your eye on your bird body language to avoid receiving a nasty bite.
Remember it's your fault and you can change that by modifying your behaviour to fix the problem

To bring the situation is under your control, ask yourself
What is it that I did to make the parrot bite me?
What can I do next time to stop the parrot from biting me?
How can we work together so that no one bleeds and we live happily ever after?

Conducted lots of trust building and bonding sessions (training).
The advice I can give is
1 move slowly around the bird
2 let the bird come to you.
3 Don't force the bird to do anything that it doesn't want to do.
4 make the trust building and bonding sessions (training) fun
5 end all training sessions on a positive.
6 patience.

Getting your bird out of the cage is easy, Getting them to go back in can be quite a different story. The last thing you want to do is chase the bird around the house, catch him or her and then put them into the cage. (3 Don't force the bird to do anything that it doesn't want to do). This is not good for building trust or bonding.

First get a clicker.
Clickers are the best for training. Do some research? B F Skinner is a good start. Clicks won't confuse the bird. Where has words can. Without realising, words can be changed. It doesn't seem much, but it is to a bird. Has an example you might be saying "good boy". Then you say "that's a good boy" or you’re a good bird. Clickers are a bridge to identify wanted behaviour between you and your bird.

I use sunflower seeds has training treats as Delfin preferred them over other type of tidbits. The method I used to find Delfin's training treat was to put five different types of foods on a plate and let Delfin pick. This can be pine nuts, sunflower seeds, dice fruit or veggies. Whatever your bird picks, it must not be part of the bird’s diet otherwise it defeats the purpose of being a training treat.

Use the clicker to identify the desired behaviour and the training treats to reinforce that desired behaviour. Delfin will fly to us, turn around, shake hands and pick up items and put them into a bin. Recently I have been training Delfin to lift his wings. (I managed to get two photos). It's no secret, you just need to spend time interacting and training with your bird.

I would focus on teaching the bird to step up and step down. Then to come and stay
Of all the birds I have been involve with, I have two favorites, The Eclectus and Alexandrine. These birds are just awesome and you're in for the time of your life. especially when they say things in context.

I Must say... "So far so good"

None of us have been bitten, we have introduced the clicker and started getting him to target the end of a stick.

He has also started to step up onto my wife's hand as well as mine.

He even flew around a bit (He is unclipped) before happily going back into his cage, climbing up his boing and going to sleep for the evening.

I think at the moment, we are all still in the teething stage as we learn what to expect from each other. I must admit, he doesn't seem to perturbed by anything and is getting more adventurous every day.

He doesn't like to be touched, but just moves away as opposed to biting, but he will let us scratch his beak a little.

I will continue to keep you all updated.

Cheers

Introducing Jake

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Jake is a beautiful, beautiful green birdie! Barney and Madge say 'Hello' and send respectful squawks. His cage looks great and it's good to see he has plenty of chewy toys to play with. I hate to tell you this, but I reckon the ladder will be bisected in two before it's much older. Alexes just love to bite wooden things in half! LOL! I hope you have great fun working with Jake and get to enjoy the unique personality that Alexandrines have.

Thanks Betrisher,

Yep, the ladder was attacked almost immediately, but he has since found other things to occupy himself with and with each day his comfort levels are increasing and he is flying around more and interacting with all of us more.

Happy Days!