New Blue Fronted Amazon owner seeking adivce

I am a new owner to a three year old, female, Blue Fronted Amazon named Layla. Layla was my boyfriend's, Pete, parrot whom I moved in with in January. I have been doing research to try to become the expert to make sure she is getting properly cared for, so any feedback, advice, tips, etc. are greatly appreciated.

Background
Pete acquired the bird from an ex girlfriend who was not properly caring for her. When I first moved in, we were living with his two male roommates and she had visitors all day long. Her cage was located in the living room with her highest perch being just under eye level. In May, Pete and I, moved into a small apartment together where space is limited so her cage is now located on the floor with her highest perch being about 4 foot high. She is definitely more bonded to Pete than she is with me, but she shows some strange behaviors toward both of us. Pete is great at caring for her, but where he lacks is taking the time to research behaviors, what they mean, and how to train to prevent bad, and promote good. That is where I have stepped in, but still need some guidance.

Aggression
I read that Amazons have a tendency to show aggression and they the bond to one person. Aggression was not really an issue until recently. While we were living in the old apartment, she would sometimes show aggression towards me sensing that I was a new female presence who was very much a part of Pete's life, but it wasn't anything to bad. She still let me take her out of the cage and would sit on my lap or shoulder and just quietly hang out. Once we moved into the new apartment her aggression towards me increased significantly. If I walked by the cage or was anywhere within a foot of it she would loudly growl at me and snap her head back and forth attempting to bite me through the cage. I started to deal with this slowly, while desperately trying to remain calm because at times I wanted to ring her neck. I started by being the one to feed her and change her water. I then would sit on the ground next to the cage, with my head below her perch, to do daily activities such at watching tv, brushing my hair, putting my shoes on, etc. I then was able to pet her through the cage, which I rewarded her for. I was then able to put my hand inside the cage, coming from below her, to pet her, again rewarding her. I am now able to take her out of the top of the cage, and she'll sit on my lap and shoulder, coo, and preen me, but I CAN NOT pet her at all. She will let Pete clean her beak, preen her feathers, pet her head and neck, but she doesn't allow him to touch her back or stomach. I am trying to build up trust so I can be allowed to pet her belly, or head, but it's taking longer than the other progress has. Every time she achieves a new behavior, she is rewarded with treats, she LOVES popcorn. She still growls and lightly bites at both of us whenever we approach her with our hands though, even if she is willing to step up.


Noise
At the old apartment, she hardly vocalized. The two exceptions are when she was responding back to a cat call whistle Pete taught her, or when he was playing his guitar or loud music was playing, especially Metallica. Now, she is loud all the time, and vocalizes at very inconvenient times, which is not great because we are in an apartment complex with noise rules. The land lord did give us permission to have her in the apartment, but no other pets are allowed, so I'm sure it is annoying to the other neighbors. She gets loud when the tv is on, and when Pete and I are talking to one another. I read that it was probably a learned behavior because she was seeking attention and we reinforced the behavior by giving it to her. It said in order to fix the problem, we should shut off the lights and leave the room until she calms down and then reward her for being quiet. This is extremely difficult for us because we are in such a small apartment and we can't stop what we are doing to let her calm down. We both work a lot so when we are home it's while we are getting ready in the morning, or making diner late at night and trying to relax and spend time together. What we started doing instead is putting her blanket over the cage and waiting for her to quiet down. This does not seem to work. I'm sure it's because she can still hear whatever is going on, so shes responding to that, but we don't know what else to do.

Training to Talk
As I mentioned before, she will cat call whistle, and repeat back to cooing. We are desperately trying to get her to talk, and I have been working with her every day in an attempt to get a word from her. To begin, during our training sessions, If she repeats back to the cat call whistle, she gets a treat. Same with a coo. I talk to her daily. I say good morning when I take the blanket off the cage, and goodnight when I put it on. When I enter the apartment I tell her hello, how are you? Did you miss me? She will chirp back, but no words. She is extremely responsive to music so I started playing the Flo Rida song, "Whistle" daily, which has a short little whistle part, hoping she would pick it up because she already knows how to whistle. No luck, she responds by cat calling. Lately I have been singing the words I want her to learn, because she is very vocal when I sing, but no luck so far. Iv'e put on youtube videos of people saying words over and over hoping she would pick them up. No luck I'm just not sure where to go from here. I know that birds often wont talk unless they feel comfortable, and I know we are still working on the trusting relationship part, but she will preen both of us if shes sitting with us, so I can't imagine she fees to uncomfortable. We also want to teach her to fly to us when we call her over, but I don't even know where to begin on that.

I think at this point this addresses my main concerns and any feedback and advice you could offer would be much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this and reply, I know I wrote a book, but I wanted to try to give as much detail as I could think of so I could try to avoid getting to much info I have already read about. I am really putting in an effort to train Layla so that all of us can feel comfortable, and Pete and I won't have the frustration of bad behaviors as much.

Amanda

hey Amanda, i'm busy this AM but will post a reply later today. Thanks for all the "history" it sure helps us to give better advice. i'm sure other members will have great advice and insight. You've demonstrated the most important part, a willingness to learn about your amazon. I'm 100% positive all of you( the flock) can have a great relationship. Sounds like you've made great progress already.

Welcome to the forum and amazons! They are great birds if you know what makes them tick and how to deal with them

1. Good for you to be looking more into the beautiful bird you now live with. My husband and I have always lived in apartments and had our BFA with us for 6 1/2 years (we adopted him when he was 10) and he has never seemed to mind smaller accommodations, as he gets lots of love and things to do. Zons do tend to be "one person" birds, as in they will bond to one person strongly. That said, they can still be trained to be social and how to behave in a nice way towards people who aren't their "chosen one".

2. What you've described is aggression driven by JEALOUSY. Basically, you came in and stole her 'boyfriend'. It probably wasn't so bad at first because it took her a while to figure out what was going on. Just be patient and keep working with her. It sounds like you've already made excellent progress winning her trust. As for petting, look at that as a bonus if she ever allows it, but many zons do NOT like petting period, and others will only allow it from their perceived mate (i.e. your boyfriend). Very few accept that kind of touch from more than one person.

3. Noise is a tough one, as vocalizing at a loud volume is a very natural behavior and it can take months and months to "lower the volume" of a noisy parrot. If you are going to put your bird in "time outs", just be sure to make sure its only a few minutes at a time (just enough time for her to calm down). Also be sure once she's calm to reward and praise her. Kiwi (our BFA) doesn't normally make much inappropriately loud noise, but when he does, I just cover his cage for a couple minutes instead of turn off the lights and leave the room. He used to be a screamer, but I think he learned he got quiet time while everyone else was still doing whatever, and eventually made the correlation between being loud and not getting a positive reaction.

One other VERY important thing no one seems to mention is that you should also be reinforcing good noises you'd like him to use. If she makes a nice noise, say something back or give her attention. Encourage her to make the good noises while also discouraging the bad.

And is there any particular reason she can't watch TV with you? Parrots are flock animals... i.e. she's screaming because she wants to be with you (her flock). Get her a t-perch (so she has somewhere to go potty if she's not potty trained) and bring her around the house with you. It is rare that Kiwi is not nearby when we're home and he's awake. It doesn't even matter what we're doing (such as cleaning or talking or watching something), he's just happy to feel "involved". Hand him a toy, and he's the happiest parrot on earth.

4. Most parrots who "talk" begin repeating noises from a very early age, but some never do. By age 3, while not impossible, it probably isn't a natural inclination for her to repeat sounds and isn't going to be easy for her to learn. I'm not a huge expert on getting them to talk, as I've never cared if Kiwi talked or not (he doesn't) but I'm sure someone will come along ho knows about better ways to train a bird to talk.

I would cut out the "repeating words" videos though and look into other methods. I can imagine that to be very stressful and unpleasant for a bird to hear the same word over and over and over.... Put yourself in her shoes, would you like if someone was playing the word "hello" 1000X a day at you? It would probably drive you nuts.

One more thought- Since it doesn't sound as though she is a natural talker, if you want to bond better AND have her do some cool stuff, why not try trick training instead Best of luck!

I have a 41 year old amazon (multi-home rehome) who doesn't bite, but STILL does not like to be touched AT ALL. Some don't. Your boyfriend can touch because he is the favorite person. The more you force it, the more the emphatically the bird is likely to say no.

These are pair bond birds. In the wild they pair up, and are exclusive. That is their nature. Your BF is his pair bond person. The fact that you can handle this bird at all, says he likes you and is relatively tame and pet quality. So, that part is good.

Vocalizing? I find that if I take them out and handle them first thing on arriving home, they tend to be much more quiet than if I did not. Sounds like the bird just wants to be part of the conversation when the apartment gets loud. Making friends with your neighbors and asking them to complain to you and not the manager is probably easier than getting the bird to quiet down. You might be surprised. I had five or six (including a macaw!) in an apartment setting. And my Dusky was a screamer when I got him. With the doors and windows closed, my neighbors said they barely heard him...

TALKING? Some do. Some don't. Some do, but don't in front of you...
(Some learn to talk, and then don't shut up!) Talk to the bird, maybe she picks it up. They have those recording device things as well... I never used them.

With the pair bonding you are talking about, where the bird pairs with one person.

I have a female Amazon parrot and it seems bonded to me. I am a male. However, I notice that if certain other females come around my bird will easily forget me and be in love with this other person instantly.

I have to forcefully remove the birds from the people and my bird will even go and bite me which she would never do if it was just me.

So I question this bonding to one person as my Female will select certain other people she likes more than me. It is not any other person, but there are a few people she is drawn to instantly.

The "amazon crush" phenomenon is very real. My own bird, Sally, has nipped me several times because she was still busy courting someone she found interesting, and wasn't ready to leave/be picked up/come back to me yet.

We don't know why, but every once in awhile, they just go bonkers over someone and do this.

They aren't abandoning their pair bond, but there is something interesting they see in the new person, and they seek out attention from them. (Five minutes later they could decide they weren't all that interesting, okay I'm done now, and turn on them. They come very close to "amazon overload" when "crushing" hard... )

Sally actually yells at people when she's trying to get their attention, and they ignore her. She gets quite miffed!

I have found that when it comes to teaching Zons to talk or make noise is to be excited, the more exciting the noise/word the more likely my zon Parker is to pick it up

TALKING? Some do. Some don't. Some do, but don't in front of you...


Do you happen to know why they may choose to not talk in front of you? My Amazon talks A LOT but never in front of me. He did the day we brought him home, but hasn’t since. So now my husband and I will sit in the other room and just smile at each other as he holds a conversation with himself. Haha. We’ve only had him a month though (he’s 7) so I’m sure some of it may be that he’s still adjusting.


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Welcome and be welcomed. Read all the sticks at the top of the Amazon forum, several times, out loud to your bird. They love being read to. If he won't talk, a great way to interact with your parrot is to teach him tricks. This works best if you do it every day, same time, without fail. Really will help to create a special bond, even if you aren't the 'one'. Try having him follow a treat, turning in circles, for a first one.

Welcome! I'm not an expert with amazons but take a look at the sticky's in the Amazon forum. Good info there.

I have a 34 yr. old BFA. We got him when he was 11 weeks old. I was married to my late husband at the time, so we raised him together. My husband passed away 14 years ago. I have since remarried, and Sam has completely taken to my new husband, Roger. It took him almost 5 years, but now he has a great relationship with both of us. We both can pet him anytime we want, and he will sit there forever when he is being petted.

I think that the big word here is patience. It may take a really long time to win her over, but just keep trying. Roger got some pretty bad bites in the beginning, but he never stopped trying. Now, sometimes, I call Sam Judas because he will turn his back on me and run over to Roger. Either way, he has a great life with both of us crooning over him. He is one spoiled parrot!

Something tells me this poster isn't on the forums anymore