Amazons & gravel?

I have been getting conflicting information about an Amazons need for gravel.

Some say they do need it and some say if they are eating a large amount of fresh foods they don't need it. Approx. 50% of her diet or a little more is fresh fruits and veggies, brown & wild rice, oatmeal, etc.

I took Zilla's gravel away mostly because of the disgusting condition of the dish and the gravel in it. I didn't want her to get sick from ingesting filthy gravel with feces all over it.

Should I go get her some more since she is used to having it, or will she be fine without it?

She keeps looking for it, at least that is what I think she is doing by going to the floor of the cage in the same place it was being kept. She just started this behavior this morning, and wouldn't eat her breakfast, just kept doing "circles" around her cage and looking in the spot the gravel used to be.

It was shower morning so I did give her a shower and then she ate a small amount of the fruits and is napping now.

Any advice from people who know more than I do is appreciated

None of my Amazon nor Macaws have ever seen a speck of gravel. In fact, it can be quite dangerous for them. They do not need it.

A variety of fresh veggies and fruits, chopmixes, pellets and perhaps a healthy mix (like Goldenfeast mix) is quite sufficient.

Here, please have a look at these links, they may be of benefit to you:
http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...afe-fresh-foods-toxic-food-lists-sprouts.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/28242-ingredients-pellets.html

Hmm...my amazon (or any of my birds) get gravel.

Amazon Parrots - Feeding | VCA Animal Hospitals

The problem with grit/gravel is that some parrots can eat too much of it. It will then cause an impaction (blockage) of the crop.

I don't know where you got your information about parrots needing gravel, but that is as far WRONG as it gets. In fact, gravel is an ingestion hazard that could cause crop impaction, and KILL your bird.

NO, SERIOUSLY, ON THIS ONE! PLEASE STOP WITH THE GRAVEL!

I can't imagine (short of forcing) my princess eating gravel to begin with.

Zilla hasn't had gravel since I got her. It's only been 6 days, but she came with gravel and was being given gravel at her previous home.

I THREW AWAY THE GRAVEL THE DAY I GOT HER.

It just seemed like she was looking for it this morning so I had to ask. There is so much conflicting information out there on the web.

I will NOT be giving her gravel ever again! I won't risk her health and safety! That's why I asked you all for advice.

Thank you all for the quick answers and help.

JerseyWendy... Thank you for giving the links about pellets and fresh foods.

Zilla has already amazed me with how much fresh food she eats. I will be changing her pellets though. She doesn't eat them anyways, just throws them at the cats for fun.

I think I am going to try one of the organic pellets without the sugar & salt. The ones she has now are the colored ones recommended by my local bird store, and they look a lot like the ones in the link that have all the salt, sugar and artificial colors.

Not sure what brand her seed mix is. I bought what my local bird store sells in bulk. I chose the one without sunflower seeds or peanuts, so it's just seeds and dried fruits. I only bought 2 pounds, so changing to a better one won't be an issue, I just have to figure out which one would be best for her.

I would offer a manu mineral block instead of grit. Amazons do eat from natural clay licks in nature, and manu blocks provide that special, natural clay for them. Some birds need actual grit to help grind up food in their crops, but parrots do NOT. That's not to say just because they shouldn't have it they won't eat it. If given the opportunity, Kiwi will go after dirt any chance he gets (even potting soil and dirt outdoors which is definitely something we prevent). Remove the grit, offer a mineral block and keep her away from dirt!

Amanda_Bennett said:

I think I am going to try one of the organic pellets without the sugar & salt. The ones she has now are the colored ones recommended by my local bird store, and they look a lot like the ones in the link that have all the salt, sugar and artificial colors.

Not sure what brand her seed mix is. I bought what my local bird store sells in bulk. I chose the one without sunflower seeds or peanuts, so it's just seeds and dried fruits. I only bought 2 pounds, so changing to a better one won't be an issue, I just have to figure out which one would be best for her.

Click to expand...

You might not want to buy bulk feed out of serve-yourself bins at a bird store as there's a pretty good chance you'll be bringing home some extra protein also.....since you've already bought some, you would be wise to freeze what you have & just bring out what you'll offer for breakfast, then do the same for the afternoon/evening meal.....often when you buy from bulk bins, there will be meal/flour moth eggs/larvae/pupae mixed in with the food & you wake up one morning to a surprise welcoming party flying around.....it's always wise to purchase your grain based food in vacuum sealed packages and if you buy in large amounts, freeze what you're not using for a meal or day's meals.....freezing is best because eggs can even be found in vacuum packed containers also, they just don't have the oxygen to hatch.....

Some members have recently found extra protein in their bulk feed & if you do a forum search for meal moths, flour moths or pantry moth will get you the threads...my guys have caught & consumed the fliers & crawlers on the couple of occasions I didn't pay attention to what I brought home, both are OK if thy want to eat them.....

You might not want to be too critical about processed/pellet foods with salt and or sugar, because both are consumed in the wild & contrary to what a lot of internet information professes, our feathered friends need an amount of salt in their diets and though there is no specie specific table offering guides, common sense usually is a good rule of thumb.....I like salt free potato chips or lightly salted chips & will brush the salt off of a chip or two I let my guys have on occasion and when I cook, I only add salt to dishes that require it for the recipe, anything else, the eater has to add their own, so my guys often eat at the table with me.....

Thanks Weco, great info. and I appreciate it.

Zilla loves to eat with me and I am trying to eat fairly healthy, so there is almost always something on my plate she can have. She does demand her food from my plate be on the fork, not my fingers. Apparently her original owners fed her with silverware.

I tried putting some of her fresh fruits and veggies on the side of my plate and feeding her those, but that only worked for a couple evenings. She's too smart to be fooled by that trick!

She came to me a bit of a chunky monkey though, so I am trying to get her back into a little better shape.

Kiwi reacted to fresh produce as though it were radioactive when we first got him (he was a bit underweight, not overweight though). He took to those "just veggies" which are freeze dried as well as dehydrated fruits and veg (be sure they aren't sulfured, salted or sugar added!) much better than fresh to start with. I also like to bake him special bird breads and bars that use fruit as sweetener. You can run the freeze dried "just veggies" or pellets through the food processor until it's pulverized and sub it in for flour (though you'll still need some flour, preferably organic whole wheat). Most parrots just LOVE baked goodies, so making them healthy ones that are full of the foods they normally reject introduces them to the flavor and gets them better nutrition than just seed. You can also get a spiralizer and make her veggie "pasta" and puree some parrot-friendly fruit and veg for the "sauce" (the tomatoes, garlic and onions in normal marinara are not good for parrots). You can also try at making (baked) veggie chips from zucchini, carrots and sweet potatoes. Cinnamon is a good flavoring alternative to salt for parrots. Unflavored grains are fine to feed regularly. They are actually pretty good for parrots. You might try some veggie or fruit puree on top of the grains to get even more fresh produce into her diet!

This is going to sound strange, but some birds actually like the frozen veggies, given to them still frozen. Like a Vegie-sickle.

What the heck, if they eat it...

Birdman666 said:

This is going to sound strange, but some birds actually like the frozen veggies, given to them still frozen. Like a Vegie-sickle.

What the heck, if they eat it...

Click to expand...

Our grey liked them like that... Weird bird

Weco is right, birds do need a small amount of salt. We as humans eat 5000 times the amount of salt we need but we all need salt. That IV That you get in the hospital? that's salt water. Sugar is needed also, but that will come from the fresh fruits and dried fruits you give her

Good Luck!

Are fresh tomatoes OK for her? I haven't tried them yet, but someone told me to try them. I knew about the marinara sauce not being good for her with all the onions and spices.

Veggie pasta sounds good! I might have to join her for that one.

Baked veggie chips sound good too! If she doesn't like them I might eat them...LOL

I will look up some bird friendly recipes for breads and bars. They sound yummy too.

As others have said, grit/gravel is unnecessary -mainly because hook bills have the ability to hull seeds before they eat them, whereas birds who don't have hook bills and eat seeds whole- shells and all- actually need the grit to break down the shells/seeds and it aids in digestion.

Tomatoes are fine, just not the green leafy/plant parts.

thekarens said:

Birdman666 said:

This is going to sound strange, but some birds actually like the frozen veggies, given to them still frozen. Like a Vegie-sickle.

What the heck, if they eat it...

Click to expand...

Our grey liked them like that... Weird bird

Click to expand...

Mine too! But if it gets him to eat his veggies, why not?

Soaking the pellets in hot water and adding super finely chopped apples & pears works for Zilla. She seemed to like it this way for breakfast!

She also ate broccoli with me last night! She won't eat it raw, but likes it lightly steamed and warm off my plate.

She also doesn't like raw sweet potato but does like it baked off my plate.

Maybe she just likes eating what I am eating, but if it gets her to eat her veggies I'm game!

Amanda_Bennett said:

Soaking the pellets in hot water and adding super finely chopped apples & pears works for Zilla. She seemed to like it this way for breakfast!

She also ate broccoli with me last night! She won't eat it raw, but likes it lightly steamed and warm off my plate.

She also doesn't like raw sweet potato but does like it baked off my plate.

Maybe she just likes eating what I am eating, but if it gets her to eat her veggies I'm game!

Click to expand...

Glad you tried some different ways to serve her food that got her interested! Amazons live in large flocks in nature and eating is a group activity. Meal time is understandably quite important to them on an instinctual level, and a very special birdy bonding opportunity for us humans! I would venture to say the vast vast majority of amazons prefer eating at the table with you than they do alone in their cage. It makes them feel accepted and welcome in your "flock". And when they see their human "flock" members and/or favorite human eating something, they tend to eat it too (or at least sample it).

I grew up with parrots, and at dinner (and my breakfast too!) they'd descend like locust and ransack the table lol. Kiwi is not allowed to "ransack" but he is present at every meal at home. In fact, I even miss him when we go out to eat. It's like we left a family member at home to eat alone He really gets so excited about his food and is great mealtime entertainment. I'm sure you'll get used to Zilla's presence at the table and wonder how you ever lived without her