New on the forum and need some advice

[GoDieogo]

Hi everyone, I'm a new mummy to a Blue Fronted Amazon called Diego. After a year of researching this species I finally felt confident in adding another member to our family. Diego is 4 months old and has been hand reared, he is very sweet natured although does sometimes have a need to take himself away and be on his own sometimes which we all respect and leave him to contemplate his new surroundings and practice jibbering all of the new things he is hearing his new family say.

My main problem is we recently requested the breeder to come to our house to crop his wings as we have very large patio doors that even my husband has walked into thinking they were open, so I was very worried that he was going to fly straight into the glass. The breeder came along, which up to this point I had a lot of confidence in as all of his amazons were healthy, living in great conditions, and very sweet natured. Although I have never cropped wings myself I do have an idea of how they should be done and was horrified by the way he did it.

Instead of cutting each feather individually he just chopped through them in 1 sweep. He has left the main 2 primary long feathers on, he said as it looks better on the bird. However, I thought that these were supposed to be the first 2 feathers to be cropped. He did not cut each feather at the bottom of each rather than straight through the middle.

After assuring me that he had done it correctly and that Diego would only now be able to flutter down rather than fly, yesterday Diego hit the patio doors. Luckly he is ok but he managed to fly 10 feet with his cropped wings. He has also gone backwards with stepping up as he seems to have lost a lot of balance when moving around. Not just outside of his cage but also inside and is tending to sit on just 1 perch, trying to get to another seems to be very difficult for him and he gets frustrated screeches then gives up.

I'm really worried that this is going to really effect him for the future and am very unsure what to do about it.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks

Caroline

 

[Auggie's Dad]

It sounds like the breeder did do the cut correctly if you wanted that type of cut - I think I've heard it called a "cosmetic clip" or something of the sort. Some people say it looks better with the first two feathers left in tact. Of course this is a matter of subjective taste as I don't think it looks good at all!

What isn't subjective are the risks this trim poses. They are not particularly severe, but if there is no upside to the trim I see no reason to tolerate the risk. The main risk is that these two feathers on each side are completely unsupported and just stick out like a sore thumb. These feathers are prone to break or get caught on things.

As for still being able to fly, perhaps the breeder didn't trim them short enough - there is not magic line on where to cut: they should be able to flutter down gracefully as he said, but they should not be able to gain altitude. Even just being able to flutter down, if they start from a high perch the patio doors could still be a risk. You would not want to trim them too short otherwise any fall is a risk.

Have you considered sheers for the patio doors? This would be the best solution if practical.

As for the behavioral changes it can be expected - you would not be yourself either if you just lost most of your ability to move yourself around. It takes time for them to adjust.

Other that this I don't know much about clipping: Auggie came clipped but has been fully flighted ever since.

 

[GoDieogo]

Thank you for your response.

After doing some research on the type of clipping he did on Diego I would have rather he had removed these 2 primary feathers as I have been reading that they can splinter as the other feathers are not there to support them. I am now seeking advice from an avarie vet to see if it would be advisable to have these 2 remaining feathers also clipped or if this would then be too many clipped and would be dangerous for him.

I would love to have him unclipped but I have 2 young children who still do not understand the concept of closing doors after them. However, even after the clip I still have a bird that can only come out of his cage when the children are out of the house or sleeping, as he can still fly albeit very unbalanced.

Since his encounter with the door yesterday, I have been pulling the curtains across when he is out and about.

Hopefully he will soon start getting used to his clip and become more balanced again with stepping up and moving around the cage. However, before the clip he was always a little clumpsy and has often says uh oh!

 

[Birdamor]

I agree with everything that AD said and have only one point to add and that is that at 4 months of age, it is really way too early to clip an Amazon. Animals need to be fully grown and have completely mature muscles and bones before you do anything to curtail mobility because they need the exercise to develop normally. I hope that this won't cause permanent damage to his musculature or his emotional wellbeing because you definitely do NOT want a mean male amazon in a household with children. None of my birds are clipped either.

 

[GoDieogo]

I am feeling terrible at the moment for getting it done, but only did so after so many experienced people told me to do so as soon as possible so he was not endangering himself or at risk of being lost.

I have just spoken to an Avian vet and they do not seem to concerned with it. They did say that they would recommend clipping the remaining 2 first primary feathers so that the clip achieves a result of Diego not being able to fly rather than giving him a false feeling of being able to fly which the remaining feathers give him.

After what Birdmor said about causing permanent damage to his musculature or emotional wellbeing, this was a big concern when talking to the vet. They have assured me that neither of these things are a concern to them as the clip is a commonly used one but not recommended. They were also not concerned by his age so I am now feeling a little more relaxed.

As the day has passed he seems to be more confident in getting around his cage so I am hoping that he is slowly getting used to it.

 

[HRH Di]

First - welcome to the forum. Lots of helpful members here.

Second - clipping is a very personal decision that can get very passionate conversations started. Personally, I would listen to the expert with a significant amount of formal education and recognized certification. Granted, I would combine that with research on options. That said, your vet seems to give good advice. Like AD, I think this sort of wing clip looks silly, but that's my personal preference. And like you, I'd be more concerned about the care for the remaining feathers.

 

[GoDieogo]

Thanks HRH Di, I am starting to realise that wing clipping can be a sensitive subject. Like you said I acted on the advise given to me by a professional expert who made sure I understood the pros and cons of clipping his wings. I chose to clip his wings for a variety of reasons, non of them being I would have more control of Diego. Only to prevent harm and to keep him safe. I do not regret clipping his wings, my regret is letting the breeder do it who chose a wing clip of his personal preference which is one that I would not have gone for. I have decided to remove the remaining feathers as recommended by the vet and to do the clipping myself in the future.

I know that the feathers grow back in about 20 weeks but do I have to leave it longer to make sure that non of the new feathers are blood feathers?

Thanks for all your answers

 

[HRH Di]

I'm going to leave that to another member to answer....since I've never personally clipped my birds wings nor have I ever seen it done.

The trust of Diego is paramount to your relationship with him. So, if you're going to do any clipping or nail trimming yourself, I feel that you need to have that trust firmly established with your parrot. Between now and his next clipping, work on making sure he lets you handle his wings and feet, that will make it lots easier. You're probably going to need some help. Amazons are big birds and trying to handle a squirming Diego and clip his wings correctly with only 2 hands would be, I imagine, next to impossible.

Good luck...

 

[SharonC]

I actually clipped my Amazon, as we have no Avian vet here.

My husband helped by towelling and restraining, and I clipped the first three flights on each wing. We actually had to towel him again, and take two more, as he's a very strong flier. It's intimidating, but not really as bad as expected....You just have to make sure his head and feet are properly and gently restrained.

 

[Rrrma]

I can't help on the clipping, but I did want to mention window clings! This is a VERY good idea to help protect your family, your animal family, and outdoor animals!

You can get them just about anywhere, even seasonal ones. Or you can make your own! I don't know how well these directions work, but they sound pretty easy and fun for the kids to do Kids Gifts and Craft Projects: Make Your Own Window Clings

You would want to put a few at different heights and different spacings so that everyone can see where the glass is. The Joy of Making Your Own Window Clings

 

[GoDieogo]

The trust of Diego is paramount to your relationship with him. So, if you're going to do any clipping or nail trimming yourself, I feel that you need to have that trust firmly established with your parrot. Between now and his next clipping, work on making sure he lets you handle his wings and feet, that will make it lots easier.

This is so true and although I am only at the early stages, I am doing a lot of touch clicker training at the moment. Every day he is responding more and more and yesterday he closed his eyes and did his happy sounds whilst I gave him a foot tickle. I think that the clicker training is teaching me more then it is him, as I am really learning about his body language and his likes and dislikes.

Rrrma thanks for the links to the window clings. My son actually made one a few weeks ago and my husband still walked into that patio door When Diego flew into the window, it was the one without the window cling. Which proves Diego is more intelligent then my husband lol. I will go back to the hobby store and get some more kits for the kids to do for the other door.

Thanks again everyone for your advice

 

[Rrrma]

People can be so much more absentminded

Try putting a few at random heights and spacing, maybe he will notice next time lol!