End of the Honeymoon stage for DHA Adrian.

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
Okay, so I need advice.

Adrian is so willing to bite me on any mistake that I make. She did not used to. Maybe in her case the honeymoon period has ended or she is mad at me for some reason?

How can I stop this bad behavior from really kicking through? I moved the my arm down at my waist, which I used to do before and without warning she bites my arm, close to the same location like last time. I don't scream or yell or make any sudden movements, just take it in. I put her on the cage and to make things right, I just sat and talk to them. I grabbed some treats and allowed them to eat off my hand, like I used to do it. I held my hand open and Adrian took some food and so did Rocky. I did it the second time and she was acting as if she was going for the food, but instead went from ring finger and latched on. I, out of instinct jerked my finger back, didn't make any noises however. She lost her balanced.

But what is her deal? I don't know what I am doing that's making her so willing to bite me... I honestly can't even touch her the way that I used to without her wanting to bite me or lung at me. Even when I put Rocky back on his cage, she tried to bite me.

Could it be the new toy from Sunday (which I then took out because she hated it) or could it be my new work hours that I started on Monday? Maybe my new hours are making her mad at me?

Rocky is still my buddy and a doll. He is so chill. How do I keep Adrian off of my shoulders...( I hope he isn't next) I don't trust really her at this point. I show that I am mad, but I don't carry a grudge... I try to show her after being silent that I am not mad anymore....

Also, after trying to get them in the cage (with my hand wrapped with blankets), Adrian attacks the crap out of them and fights them... Rocky is calm about it. I used my other hand and she (Adrian) lifted her hand up as if she wanted to come up. I turned her down... because of the fact that one... she was attacking the blanketed hand and two she bit me. I just didn't want her to sucker bite me out of revenge.

I also need to learn how to create play stands, etc. because I want them to play more and have things to do. But they don't want to go anywhere else besides cage and my shoulder

I am thinking that it's time to fist my hand and show I am the flock leader, instead of moving it from her bites

Some background is: I thought on Sunday when I put a toy rope thing in her cage, that she was holding a grudge towards me because she hated it at first glance. Sunday night she bit my arm randomly. Monday she bit my wrist randomly (So I took toy out) after she wanted to come up.

:greenyellow::green2:
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #2
I think you're getting the picture. He's biting because he thinks he's in charge. He thinks he's calling all the shots. Start by winning small little battles that you can win. "I decide when he gets treats and how many". Never give him as much as he wants , of anything. Petting ,, stop long before he's had enough and bites you to say so. Change his surrounding, move his perches, move his cage. Change he's routine. You start calling the shots. Just be sure to win; lol. Zons don't mind someone else being the leader, but they need to be strong.

Above is a quote from Henpecked
 

Birdman666

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2013
9,904
258
San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Well, biting at new stuff is fairly common with zons as well. That's there initial reaction to everything. GET THAT THING AWAY FROM ME...

Fifteen minutes later they bite for a different reason. "THAT'S MINE!" :D So, they get over it quickly.

It kinda sounds like He's using his beak to communicate, and to boss you around, which the males will do...

I don't tolerate biting. There are other ways to communicate, learn one bird!

TEACH HIM BITING IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE FORM OF COMMUNICATION, AND BE FIRM WHEN YOU GIVE INSTRUCTIONS.

They are stubborn birds. You may have to butt heads with him for awhile, but this is a battle you have to win. NO BITING!
 

Mallory

New member
Jul 31, 2015
141
Media
1
0
Parrots
YNA hen "Greenleaf", Black Capped x Green Cheek Hybrid "Eva", CAG (hatched 1/1/2016), European Starling "Koda"
Personally I would no longer allow her any access to your shoulder. Amazons can bite hard and tend to grind, not something you want happening to any part of your face. Being up there is also a more dominant position for her because you are vulnerable and cannot really see or control her. When you handle her you need to keep her on your forearm even if she protests. Personally when I work with my Amazon, I always wear at least one glove and have a dowel rod handy and I am never pushed around because I can remove her from the situation even if she is at her worst. Ignoring her bites is much easier with a leather glove on and this forces her to stop biting and find another way to communicate with me.

You may also be taking things too fast and the bites could be her telling you she is uncomfortable or startled. I would set a very basic routine and stick with it so her life is very predictable (out at certain times, fed at certain times, training with treats at certain times). Use the same words - "out of cage", "step up", "breakfast" etc. each time so she knows just what to expect, and follow through if she is bossy, give her space if she seems fearful. Definitely build or invest in a play stand so she has somewhere to safely get out her energy and she does not become cage bound and territorial of her space.

The biggest thing I do when working with new animals is ritualize things. I feed the same way, train the same way and handle the same way so I am very aware and in control when I am adding new possibly frightening elements to their lives. New things can be as innocent as using a different hand for "step up" or adding a new toy. This way they know exactly what to expect from me at all times. You want to be a strong flock leader, and that requires having clear boundaries and expectations and being consistent when you work with your birds.
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #5
Oh, oh I am sorry if I am making it sound like Rocky is doing that. Adrian is, she is a she.
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #6
She is now just trying to bite me. Not the toys (I removed it)
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #7
Poor Rocky. Adrian attacks him too but not as much as me. She bit his foot to send him to another perch and does her swinging head bobbing thing as if she was a snake coming out of a jar dancing to indian music lol
 

MangoandKiwi

Member
Oct 20, 2015
50
0
Pittsburgh
Parrots
two green cheek conures (former breeders) Mango and Kiwi
hahaha sounds like you are in a little love triangle with 2 amazons :D :D :D

Someone with 2 conures will think; so happy these two aren't Amazons,
Someone with Amazons will think; Wow so happy these 2 aren't Macaws
Someone with Macaws will think; Gee so happy these 2 aren't Too's
Someone with Too's will think; I wished I kept Tigers :D
 

MyFlock

New member
Apr 15, 2015
340
1
Parrots
Conures, 2 Red bellied parrots lovebirds.
You know what? Your female Amazon sounds like my Female Jenday when my husband tries to have anything to do with her when she's with Chico the male Sunday. She tries to bite him, head bobs, neck twists. Here's what I think but I'm not an expert-

The female is protecting the male because she's bonded to the male and doesn't see you as part of their flock.

Does she act like your an intruder or interloper?
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #10
She doesn't seem to be annoyed that Rocky is on me. With their previous owner however, it was the other way around. Rocky would attack anyone or thing trying to touch Adrian. I doubt that she sees me as her flock though. Tips?
 

Bandespresso

New member
Dec 22, 2014
389
0
Tucson, AZ
Parrots
Congo African Grey+
Worked closely with many species, birds with behavioral problems, and now birds of prey and other wildlife
Are they in the same cage? If so, I would definitely separate them for the time being. I think the term "honeymoon phase" is a load of hooplah....when birds first get into a new environment, they tend to hang out and observe. Sometimes they get comfortable and start testing boundaries (which is what I think Adrian is doing). In my opinion, stick training is a requirement for all 'zons so I would definitely start with that so that you can move your baby without losing chunks of flesh. Make every non-biting experience super awesome and positive with treats and attention. Any time she gives you sass, give her a firm "no bite" and a dirty look, then ignore her. Simply not reacting to a bite doesn't always work....you don't want to make a big exciting deal about it but you want her to know that it is unacceptable behavior. Teach her other ways to communicate and learn her body language. Start giving Rocky extra attention if Adrian is biting and make sure she sees that.

It will get better!!
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #12
The only thing is, I literally cannot separate them (cage wise) I can walk around with just Rocky. But Rocky also have intense separation anxiety and can't leave Adrian's side. Even when I leave with him, he calls and looks for Adrian.
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
Media
2
43
Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
Maybe in her case the honeymoon period has ended or she is mad at me for some reason?

What if there is no "honeymoon" period? I like how Vicki Ronchette describes it perfectly! :)

BARKS from the Guild - New Bird on the Block pg 50

"I have talked to a lot of people who were disappointed that their new bird's behavior changed after a couple of months in their home. Some people call this a "honeymoon period." I do not use that term as I feel it implies the bird is purposely exhibiting good behavior only to intentionally change for the worse."


How can I stop this bad behavior from really kicking through?

In order to stop the behavior, you need to find out why it's happening in the first place. Is she biting because of something you did or didn't do? Is something else within the environment causing her to bite?

She could indeed be biting because of a new object or a different schedule. It could even be something simple like a hair cut or different shoes or even a change in your behavior.



Showing her who the "flock leader" is is a bunch of bull! Parrots do not have flock leaders in the wild, and simply forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do or putting her in a situation where she feels the need to bite is not a good idea.


Think about this... the only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs. This means to learn her body language and learn to avoid the bites. If you know she's going to bite if you introduce something into the equation, such as a towel, then don't hold a towel! If Adrian bites when you try to put Rocky back into the cage with her, try putting Adrian in last.




From the sounds of it though, it may be a good idea to separate Rocky and Adrian. You can try placing the cages next to each other so they are still next to each other, just not caged together.



Have you tried target training Adrian at all? Honestly, I would start with target training above any other behavior! This includes "stick" training and step up! If you have a bird that is target trained well, you can target them to step up onto a hand, onto a stick, come out of their cage or go into their cage and not have to physically touch them at all! (well, beyond having them step up on your arm or hand...)


The best place to start target training is within the cage! This way she can't bite you (unless you put your fingers too close to the cage or *IN* the cage!) but you can still train her! Teach her to target her beak towards an object (could be a ball, an acrylic stick, a crochet needle, a toy, or other object - something that she's preferably not afraid of...) for a reward. It's as simple as she looks at it - reward. She moves towards it - reward. She moves closer towards it - reward. She touches it - reward! But hey! She doesn't *REALLY* have to touch the object to be target trained! If she wants to bite and chew the object, then simply teach her to reach for it but not touch it for a reward!




As an example, I got to watch Barbara Heidenreich target train a B&G Macaw in person! :)


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4DjiRJu5gQ"]Part 1 - Target Training B&G Macaw with Barbara Heidenreich at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnlHAHKmP5c"]Part 2 - Target Training B&G Macaw with Barbara Heidenreich at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]




Once Adrian is target trained well within the cage, then you can move to target training outside of the cage. You would simply start by opening up the door and start target training through the cage door, and if you have any perches on the outside of the cage, you can target her to one of the outside perches. If you have a gym, you could move the gym close to the cage and then target her to the gym from the cage!



It greatly helps to find 3-5 of her *favorite* treats to reward her with that she would *ONLY* get during training. It could be dried fruits, nuts, sunflower seeds or something else she really enjoys. If you can't get her to take treats through the cage bars with your fingers holding the treat in such a way that she can grab the treat but not bite you, then put a treat cup inside the cage or try offering her treats off of a teaspoon! It also greatly helps to start training before meal times when she's hungriest and using small treats so she doesn't fill up quickly!
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #14
She's afraid of the sticks and tries to hardcore bite and attack it. She's been good within the past two days. I kind of make her want to come to me. I talk and sing to her. I feel bad though sometimes, I know she really really want to step up. I just don't trust her. Today and yesterday I got her up, but I did not want to have her on me for too long of a time period, at the risk of her finding an excuse to bite me.
 

henpecked

Active member
Dec 12, 2010
4,858
Media
3
18
NC/FLA
Parrots
Jake YNA 1970,Kia Panama amazon1975, both i removed from nest and left siblings, Forever Home to,Stacie (YN hen),Mickie (RLA male),Blinkie (YNA hen),Kong (Panama hen),Rescue Zons;Nitro,Echo,Rocky,Rub
IMO folks who don't believe there's a pair who are the flock leaders , have never watched wild parrots. Even with a pair of bonded birds there's a leader. Please don't separate a pair just so you can have a pet. No human could replace a mate who's with them 24/7. Make.friends with the pair and treat them as a pair.
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
Media
2
43
Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
She's afraid of the sticks and tries to hardcore bite and attack it. She's been good within the past two days. I kind of make her want to come to me. I talk and sing to her. I feel bad though sometimes, I know she really really want to step up. I just don't trust her. Today and yesterday I got her up, but I did not want to have her on me for too long of a time period, at the risk of her finding an excuse to bite me.

Easy way to solve the problem of her being afraid of a stick. A method that Lara Joseph has used is to find the point at which the bird is not afraid of an object and stand there with the item. You'll have the item, say the stick, behind your back in one hand, and treats in the other. If she doesn't show a reaction to the object at 15 feet away, then slowly show it to her, hide it behind your back, walk up and give her a treat. Repeat. Then try at 14 feet and repeat. Then at 13 feet. Keep doing this over and over until you can get pretty close with the object without a reaction. If during the desensitizing process, she starts showing an adverse reaction towards the object, then take a step back and go a little slower.

If you don't want to use a stick, you don't have to! You can use any other object that she may not be afraid of or want to destroy!


And hey, shorter interactions may be better than longer ones! A longer interaction may end up being too over-stimulating for the bird and they may need a "time out" and time to rest! That's ok, too!




IMO folks who don't believe there's a pair who are the flock leaders , have never watched wild parrots. Even with a pair of bonded birds there's a leader. Please don't separate a pair just so you can have a pet. No human could replace a mate who's with them 24/7. Make.friends with the pair and treat them as a pair.

Jackiebuckdaily did mention that Adrian is attacking Rocky.... if one bird may be causing physical harm or stress to another bird, they should be separated! I mentioned separating them but keeping the cages close together so they aren't far apart at all! Thus less stress! :)

"Poor Rocky. Adrian attacks him too but not as much as me. She bit his foot to send him to another perch and does her swinging head bobbing thing as if she was a snake coming out of a jar dancing to indian music lol"



I may not have studied parrots out in the wild, but from what I've read of those who have, parrots do not have a flock leader. Just because a bird wins one fight doesn't mean that they'll win the next - and it certainly doesn't mean that the bird who won that fight is now the "leader". There is no bird who eats first or flies first or decides where they'll roost at night. It's a community and they do things together. The sentry bird is not the "flock leader", in fact birds may take turns being the sentry bird, so the one who was on duty can rest and relax or perhaps go and eat. :)
 

Anansi

Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Dec 18, 2013
22,301
4,211
Somerset,NJ
Parrots
Maya (Female Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Jolly (Male Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Bixby (Male, red-sided eclectus. RIP), Suzie (Male cockatiel. RIP)
...Easy way to solve the problem of her being afraid of a stick. A method that Lara Joseph has used is to find the point at which the bird is not afraid of an object and stand there with the item. You'll have the item, say the stick, behind your back in one hand, and treats in the other. If she doesn't show a reaction to the object at 15 feet away, then slowly show it to her, hide it behind your back, walk up and give her a treat. Repeat. Then try at 14 feet and repeat. Then at 13 feet. Keep doing this over and over until you can get pretty close with the object without a reaction. If during the desensitizing process, she starts showing an adverse reaction towards the object, then take a step back and go a little slower...

This method works! I used a variation of this to free Maya of her strange phobia of brooms. (I call it strange because it was freakishly specific. She wouldn't bat an eye at a stick, perch, bat or shovel, but so much as approach within 10 feet of her with broom in hand and you'd swear she thought you were coming at her with a brick! Hahaha!)

The gradually diminishing distance tactic worked wonders, as did the praise and encouragement for each milestone passed. In addition, I also made a big deal exaggerating my fondness for the broom. (Yes, it looked at least as ridiculous as it sounds. Likely even more so.)

But in the end, it was worth it.

Yes. That is indeed a broomstick upon which she is comfortably perched.
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #18
She doesn't necessarily hurt him but I think to show her dominance. He puts up with her because he is the one with the separation anxiety. He needs her more than she needs him lol
 

henpecked

Active member
Dec 12, 2010
4,858
Media
3
18
NC/FLA
Parrots
Jake YNA 1970,Kia Panama amazon1975, both i removed from nest and left siblings, Forever Home to,Stacie (YN hen),Mickie (RLA male),Blinkie (YNA hen),Kong (Panama hen),Rescue Zons;Nitro,Echo,Rocky,Rub
Often it's displacement biting. It's because she can't get to what is really bothering her. I see that with many of my pairs. Yes sometimes they have little squabbles. I don't really want to get into a disagreement with other posters but they really do need a strong leader. And yes , in wild flocks the same birds decide when and where to feed, roost , etc. The same birds also win the fights, that's what keeps them from fighting all the time.
 
OP
Jackiebuckdaily

Jackiebuckdaily

New member
Aug 21, 2015
116
0
Bangor, Maine
Parrots
Double Yellow Headed Amazon and Yellow Crowned Amazon
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #20
I move their cage often and I get her wanting me to pick her up.
 

Most Reactions

Latest posts

Top