is liftoff possible?

My YNA Bingo is ~ 32 years old and been with our family since he was about 1 year old. In that time he has only flown in one direction, down.
He almost never tries to fly and when he does it's rather pathetic to watch. He creates a real windstorm but accomplishes very little.
SO my question is, could he actually fly away from me if I took him out?

I have taken him out with me twice and I greatly enjoy it (so does Bingo).
When moving between the car and the store I make sure I hold him securely in my hand. Once in the store he rides my shoulder and sings whistles and dances.

I purchased a harness for him but I am afraid to use it. I am afraid he will strangle himself in it or when I am trying to put it on him.
From what I have read here on the forum if a bird was kept clipped when very young they don't learn how to fly.
I have never clipped Bingo but I don't know how he was raised after hatching.

texsize

Hi
Very good questions. Hope someone with more knowledge will come on and answer. I have never seen my Macaw fly. Only glide down and crash but I would not take the chance out in the open .

I clip Amy's arms,around this time every year,to prepare her for "outside",which she just loves.
In 26 years she has "flown" maybe 3 or 4 times,and even in the winter when she has all her clothes on,she doesn't/cant make it more than three feet :52:,and she only attempts to fly if something startles her.

I have taken her outside fully feathered,and she has NEVER attempted to fly..that doesn't mean she can't,or won't,and I'd be devastated if she did and I couldn't get her back.

If you plan on taking your birdie outside,even for just a minute,I'd strongly suggest you have him/her clipped. I'd rather pay $20 knowing he/she wont go far,than pay a lifetime of regret and sorrow if,God forbid,something spooked then bird.

This,however,is just MPO

Jim

Texsize, Bingo may appear to be a poor flyer, but I personally would not risk taking him outside, unless he's properly restrained.

A frightened bird who is unsure of his own wing power, may be able to go a whole lot further than anticipated.

My Hunter took off on me once while she WAS clipped, and actually managed to make it all the way over the 6' privacy fence, about 50 yards in total. I never knew my body was able to move as fast as it did that particular day. :54:

texsize said:

...From what I have read here on the forum if a bird was kept clipped when very young they don't learn how to fly...

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Not true. If a bird was clipped before fully fledging, they will most likely never be as skillful as they would otherwise have been. But that is simply degree of skill. For instance, a bird that never fledged who takes off outside and winds up in the highest branches of a tree probably won't have any idea how to fly back down to you. Flying down is a different skill set. But flapping their wings to get some lift is instinctive.

So it's quite possible that a bird who has never flown could get startled outside and fly off in a blind panic.

JerseyWendy said:

Texsize, Bingo may appear to be a poor flyer, but I personally would not risk taking him outside, unless he's properly restrained.

A frightened bird who is unsure of his own wing power, may be able to go a whole lot further than anticipated.

My Hunter took off on me once while she WAS clipped, and actually managed to make it all the way over the 6' privacy fence, about 50 yards in total. I never knew my body was able to move as fast as it did that particular day. :54:

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Perfect example, Wendy, and so true.

Texsize, I definitely would not take your bird outside without a harness. Even if clipped. But if you do anyway, at least do so with full understanding of the risks involved. Your bird might not be able to fly well, but never make the mistake of assuming he can't fly at all.

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As Wendy stated, lift-off is totally possible! Taking a parrot outside that has a full-set of wing feathers is begging for a Day That Ends Poorly!

Our DYHA is fully able to fly in still air well over fifty plus feet and that includes in and around stuff at elevation. That does not mean that he is just as willing to allow us humans to transport him whenever we are available or within easy call distance.

Reconsider how you transport your Amazon when out and about. Ten years ago, Red Tail Hawks were unheard of in our area, today we have two possible three pairs fighting, yes fighting, over the area above our home. In other words, we are near thick with Hawks. Just fifteen miles West, they have several Eagle pairs where none existed five years before. Point is, know what is in the sky above you and have control of your Amazon when out and about.

Teaching an older Amazon to Fly:

For the health of your Amazon, I would recommend that you teach him how to fly.

With older parrots that have not flown in years, if ever. I would recommend that you start with a visit to their Avail Vet to check their heart / air sacks prior to begin teaching to fly. Learn how to hear your Amazon's heart by place his chest to your ear. Fairly easy to teach a well socialized and well handled Amazon.

After a clean bill-of-health, start with flapping wings training (dropping your hand). Start with at most a minute (likely less at first) and add time as their strength grows. Any signs of panting or heavy heart beating, Stop! Once wing flapping is in place, have them flap their wings as you move around a room. Once again, any signs of panting or heavy heart beating, Stop! As their strength increases, you will begin to feel lift as they create greater amounts of compressed air under their wings. Both you and your Amazon will become aware of this event. When they can maintain that lift on a full trip around the room (still on your finger) it time to start landing training.

Landing training is best done as you complete a trip into a bedroom and with your hand, bring them slowly down on the bed. Let them step onto the bed. They will quickly lock in on this.

Take-offs are next and are a reverse of landing. A step-up and then wing flapping and a combination of you and your parrot lifting. Raise your hand slowly as you feel your parrot create lift.

It is very important to keep a close track of any panting or heavy heart beating. As before, Stop if panting or a racing heart beat occurs. If your older parrot hits a limit in the amount of flapping time they can complete prior to panting or a racing heart, Stop! Time to quickly get back to your Avian Vet!

WARNING: It is not uncommon for senior Amazons to have hidden heart and/or breathing problems.

Pushing limits with an older Amazon or any parrot that has been ill can result in the death of your parrot!

I would also like to add, there's no way of knowing what will startle your bird. it could be something as minor as a small bird flying overhead or bumblebee that startles you. Imagine being taken to a completely new environment and seeing things you've never seen before. Just as an example, when I brought my baby home he was sitting on the back of a chair in the kitchen, I opened the fridge and he took off. He wasn't even close to it. He was clipped and a terrible flyer.

I'm with the others on this! I would NEVER trust an unclipped or untethered bird of mine not to fly away. Things that wouldn't even hit our radar (like a large raptor flying over, for example) might be enough to terrify a parrot, and cause them to fly for their lives. Would a terrified & flying bird return to its owner? Very doubtful.

Having had a bird fly off, forever, to its certain doom, is something I have experienced, it's the stuff of nightmares, and wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I will go to my grave still regretting that day. To actually invite the possibility, trusting my bird's life to "it'll probably be fine!", well, it simply doesn't compute for me.

As for birds learning to fly later in life, well, we have a CAG that was virtually without flight feathers for the first 10 years of his life. Then, we got him. He's fully-feathered now, and is rapidly learning how to fly...and loving it.

This doesn't mean he's a great flier - on his first several attempts, he had (as they say) "a flight path like a greased crowbar". Each flight improves, though!

Our YNA Sammy is about 12, and just working on flight. He always could get going...it was always the landings he had trouble with. On one of his earlier attempts, he couldn't figure out where to try to land, and inadvertently stuffed himself all the way into my wife's computer printer tray - I heard the commotion, went to find him, called out his name, and heard him answer (somewhat sheepishly, I thought)...from inside her printer! Now, he can usually stick the landing, and even land on my shoulder if he plans it in advance...

Thanks for all the quick replies and information. I have to say I am leaning towards clipping. He would not be loosing anything since he does not fly now anyway.
With all respect to SailBoat, I know you are right about it being more healthy for them to fly. I read a lot and have read as much as I could about parrots. What I recall is that birds in general don't fully utilize there lungs unless they are flying.
With one exception I make sure all my cockatiels have 20 or 30 minuets of out of cage "air time" per day.
That being said it would be dangerous for some of my other family members if Bingo was fully able to fly.
As it stands now I can walk around the house with Bingo in Velcro mode and my wife and son are perfectly safe. If he could fly he just might go after ether one.
What make of harness would be recommended if I wanted to go that way. The one I bought was called " The Aviator". I did not like it because the harness was just made out of thick "cord" I think something wider would be more comfortable and work better.
texsize

Wing clipping is totally wrong on all reasons why people condone clipping is beyond me if you don't want your bird to fly get a dog or other pet birds are meant to fly period not stuck in or on a cage if you want to take your bird outside train it with a aviator harness

I have really been going back and forth, myself, on whether I want to clip Aria when her flight feathers grow back in. She was clipped when I got her.

As much as I would like to let her be fully flighted, I don't think I will. I believe allowing flight is extremely beneficial for health reasons, but I think there are worse things than not allowing flight. Such as a fully flighted bird taking off in an environment they cannot survive in, or being exposed to dangerous predators. Around here, we have owls large enough to take down a cat, I don't think it would have a problem with most parrots, especially when they are already lost and disoriented.

KevH

Wing clipping is totally wrong on all reasons why people condone clipping is beyond me if you don't want your bird to fly get a dog or other pet birds are meant to fly period not stuck in or on a cage if you want to take your bird outside train it with a aviator harness

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I guess you have trouble reading.
HE DOES NOT FLY RIGHT NOW, has never flown in 32 years.
If he was a fully flying bird I would agree with you it would be on the level with de-clawing a cat.
I have 5 cockatiels, some as log as 16 years. have never even considered clipping there wings. I love watching them soar around the house.
please read the entire thread before making stupid comments.
you get to be the first person to be put on my ignore list for this forum..klunk.

texsize

texsize said:

KevH

Wing clipping is totally wrong on all reasons why people condone clipping is beyond me if you don't want your bird to fly get a dog or other pet birds are meant to fly period not stuck in or on a cage if you want to take your bird outside train it with a aviator harness

Click to expand...

I guess you have trouble reading.
HE DOES NOT FLY RIGHT NOW, has never flown in 32 years.
If he was a fully flying bird I would agree with you it would be on the level with de-clawing a cat.
I have 5 cockatiels, some as log as 16 years. have never even considered clipping there wings. I love watching them soar around the house.
please read the entire thread before making stupid comments.
you get to be the first person to be put on my ignore list for this forum..klunk.

texsize

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texsize, please allow me.

Kev: Wing clipping is a HIGHY controversial subject! And those who DO clip their birds wings should NEVER be condemned or talked down to in the manner you did. Just FYI, for years and years (while you were still a thought in your dad's pants) people kept birds, and they kept them CLIPPED so they couldn't fly away. Guess what? Many of those birds lived VERY long, VERY happy lives. MUCH longer than they ever would have lived in the great outdoors - aka wilderness. Why? Because captive bird 'usually' have a longer live expectancy than their wild counterparts.

So, having said that, please don't be so fast in ANY negativity when it comes to folks contemplating on clipping their birds wings.

We've ALL come a long way. And our learning progress certainly NEVER ends. And we ALL should ALWAYS have an open mind - to ALL things!

...

Ok...we can carry on now. Sorry texsize :heart: Didn't mean to derail a thing here. Just a personal pet-peeve when fingers are pointed unnecessarily.

that's ok, I know clipping is a hot button topic. It's something I have not wanted to do but I don't want to end up like birdman666.
I have on order a.. well I forget the exact name "flight suite ".
I hope this will work for him and it might help keep my shirt a little cleaner to .
there is no guarantee I will be able to get him to use it.
it's like I said I always thought clipping wings was on a par to de-clawing a cat but I learned that sometimes it can be the lesser of two evils.
thanks for the support and understanding.
texsize

Flight suit is good and they make sure very cute ones lol BUT if I am not mistake you will still need the harness .

Christinenc2000 said:

Flight suit is good and they make sure very cute ones lol BUT if I am not mistake you will still need the harness .

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Nah, it's an either or deal. Some prefer to use flight suits, and some prefer harnesses.

A clipped bird can still fly outside with only a small breeze. I learned this when I took my very large blue and gold macaw outside. I couldn't even detect a breeze but he sure did! He tried to glide to me but I saw it in his face when he caught a small breeze. He flew up to the top of the trees and to the end of the block. I will never forget that helpless feeling! He is now harnessed when outside!!

I got my Ekkie Venus over 14 months ago, and she had a severe wing clip. All feathers between the primary and last wing feather chopped. I knew she couldn't get lift so I'd take her outside with me.

Now she as all flight feathers but two so she wears her harness. Plus another concern I've had with recent weather, high winds. I was worried she could pick up wind and disappear. Her flying experience seems minimal but I haven't risked it, she wears her harness if we go out now. Great thread!


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high winds are something I will have to be carful about in my area.
thanks for the warning. I went to McKinney for work and the wind never stopped.
not sure where you are in Texas but I know it can get plenty windy there to.
texsize

Excuse me but why was i having a go at you as you clearly said your bird can't fly i gave my opinion on people suggesting clipping