Please Help! Out of options ..

Please help!!! My parrot, Buddy, has been battling various medical issues for over a year now. The vets still don't know how to get whatever he's got under control. I have expended way beyond my budget in vet visits, tests, medicine, supplements, etc and have no more money left.

I am hoping someone can tell me what to do. Please don't tell me to go see a vet. I have hit a road block in that area as well. I even paid $250 to talk with an Avian Specialist and without several thousand dollars to run more tests he pretty much just laughed in my face and sent me packing. Again, please don't tell me to go see a vet.. you will upset me.

I have started compiling a website of all the steps I have taken and the test results etc. It is still in the working, but I am pushing to get the stuff up there ASAP.. in case I happen across a knowledgeable person with more hopeful insight.. The address is Home - A Girl and Her Bird

Description of Illness:
I started realizing he was sick when I could hear his tummy gurgle.. and then I really noticed the sound he makes when he's breathing and also that he seemed to regurgitate more often than normal. So I brought him to the vet who did the normal fecal and sent me home with antibiotics.. to make a long story short everything got worse and we were afraid he might have aspergillosis. More tests resulted in finding he had both bacterial & fungal infections and candida. He's taken a ton of medicine over this last year and in addition an x-ray revealed he has an enlarged/overtaxed liver and possibly an enlarged heart. He's also had diarrhea and abnormal stools for so long I can't remember what a normal one looks like. In the last month or so he's had blood in his stool with a lot of fluid. I just switched him to baby parrot formula because of the difficulty swallowing.

Description of Today:
Buddy hasn't gotten to the place where he is sleeping all day or on the floor of his cage.. which is why I am still fighting. I stopped giving him pellets because it seemed to be difficult for him to swallow and I can't get him to eat pellets that aren't colored. I am giving him as many nutritious things I can think of as well as the Exact baby bird formula to hopefully equal the nutrition he gets from the pellets. Some of the foods I give him are egg, sweet potato organic baby food, snap peas, buckwheat waffles, applesauce. I have a whole bag full to the max of supplements and medicine I will list at the bottom. I am unsure of what to give him and currently am giving him only soft food with no supplements trying to give his system a break.

Through all the vet visits we tried to guess the illness he has by percentile of possibility. I even went to see a spirit medium and a small animal naturopath. At this point I am overwhelmed, confused, and can't see clearly. The highest possiblity is he has papilloma virus (HPV), with a fatty overtaxed liver, and possibly an obstruction in the upper chest area and/or possibly near the vent. The fungus, bacteria, and candida seem to be secondary illness caused by the main issues. He is still very alive, vocal, and active. Most people think I am exaggerating when I say he is sick.

Ideas for Treatment:
I read a post about a parrot having HPV and them treating it with Bee Propolis. This parrot has almost all the same symptoms as mine: Papillomatosis | New Life Parrot Rescue I haven't given it to him more than a couple times because I feel frozen with fear and confusion. I have so many supplements and possibilities that sound like it should help, but nothing feels like the right answer. If something is stuck the only options I have are without surgical intervention.. massage.. light enema..? Prayer.. I don't know. It's been a grueling five years personally and I just want my friend back. I'm tired. Please help.

Supplements:
* Curcumin/Tumeric (helps with liver and HPV)
* Slippery Elm (coats the GI tract, a safe herb)
* Milk Thistle (liver nourishment)
* Bee Propolis (HPV, staves off bacteria and fungus)
* Colloidal Silver (fights bacteria.. currently I put a few drops in his water)
* L-Lysine (HPV)
* Vetri-DMG (Liver support)
* Liquid Immuno (by Rx Vitamins for Pets - Immune support)
* Liquid Hepato (by Rx Vitamins for Pets - Liver cleanse)
* Probiotics for Birds (digestion)
* Mineral Powder for Birds (missing minerals from water)
* Thorne Myco-Immune (Mushroom combination for immune support & fights infection)
* Si Miao San (Chinese formula)
* Baytril
* Nystatin
* Terbinaphine w/Mucomyst for nebulization
* Meloxicam (for pain)

I'm afraid to give him any more conventional medicine because it seems to be hard on his liver.. Yesterday I was leaning towards Curcumin and Bee Propolis. Today I am leaning toward the two Chinese formulas. I don't know.. .. please help.

Welcome to the forum. What part of the world you in? You keep saying "vets" I assume you mean avian vets. Are you using a AV on a regular basis? I know several very good AVs who only treat parrots and are probably the best in the USA. Will your AV consult with others? I'd be glad to give you some contact info. Sounds like you need someone more experienced.

My main vet is an all animal vet. He treats birds as well as other animals. I went to another avian vet who treats the parrots for the Lily Sanctuary and he wasn't much help. I went to see an avian specialist and he was a complete jerk. He laughed at me for 15-20 minutes because I didn't have any money left for treatment and testing. He charged me $250 to talk to him. I was just trying to see if there was anything my vet missed. I even had a radiograph specialist analyse the xrays. I am out of money. I live in Southern California.

Welcome to the forums.

I am terribly sorry you are going through such (financial and emotional) turmoil with your Buddy!

Please tell us a bit about him. How old is he? How long have you had him?

Are there any other birds in the house?

I will tell you to please be VERY careful with the herbs/supplements you give him, especially anything 'mushroom' related. http://www.parrotforums.com/nonfeathered-pets/60537-please-beware-otc-supplements-herbs.html

This is just my opinion.

Drop all the supplements. Drop all the homeopathic remedies. Finish out his course of antibiotics, while giving him some probiotics. Don't stop giving him the antibiotics all of a sudden because bad bacteria can still survive. Feed him a cooked diet, avoid anything raw or sprouted that might harbor bacteria. You can give him some avian vitamin/mineral supplements like Prime (I use this one personally) but there are plenty that are similar, a few times a week. I'd also recommend an electrolyte solution such a diluted plain pedialyte, but again they make avian powders that you can mix into water. Pure aloe vera juice or coconut water is good too.

I'm not a vet, and I understand not wanting to be told to go to one, but I would personally try to seek out a college that has a vet program because they're often cheaper. Please don't try to medicate yourself, especially with plants that aren't in their natural habitat, because you can't predict their reactions. Also remember that all of those supplements can interact with each other.

Check out this site [IM SERIOUS] allbirdproducts.com . My suggestion read through the site .See what applies to you [you can even call the 1800 number] for advice . The medicine is a diluted version . Most come in the form that you put in their water . Its safe have used this before and have it on hand . This will be better than that damn Baytril [which does nothing IMO]. After having a sick bird near death with many rounds of a Baytril and tesst . She was not getting better she was WORSE . I went to a avian specialist that explained Baytil WIIL NOT TOUCH MOST BIRD ILLNESSES !!!!!!! Theres lots of other things to try .It doesnt take weeks to figure out if the medicine is not working. My bird was given the right medicine {Doxycycline]. Cured her with the right medicine!!!!!! Lots of stuff to try [have used Doxycycline with luck on bacterial infections]. If your vet wants you to keep doing rounds of the same medicine and taking your money for more and more tests . Tell them to take a hike !!!!!!!! Read through that site call your vet out on it. Why are we not trying ALL THESE OTHER MEDICINES ?

At this point, please stop providing all the supplements! All of Them and Now! Return to a healthy diet based around fresh green veg, etc... If your parrot will not or cannot grind his pellets, buy pre-ground pellets. I am certain that JerseyWendy can provide links to a Healthy Amazon Diet discussion.

As the above Post from JerseyWendy stated, OTC herbs/supplements can in and of them selves cause problems and/or simply waste your money. Once again, stop providing all of them - you are likely masking your Amazons specific health problem(s).

Spirit Mediums and the like are great for people with lots of money and time, but for the rest of us common-folk a waste of money and time we do not have.

I think that the x-ray is one of the most telling tools you provided. If it was read correctly, you have two solid issues: Fatty Liver and Enlarged Heart. Someplace in all of the Vets you have visited, did any complete a standard blood test? A standard yearly visit to a Certified Avian Vet would always include that and a fecal test, STANDARD Practice!

I am not sure what Avian Specialist (?) you visited, but any of the ones that I know would have requested that you bring with you the x-rays and any and all prior tests conducted by the different Vets you visited. If not, they would have required that as part of that visit.

If any of the prior Vets did in fact complete actual tests, please revisit them and obtain copies of those tests.

I am sorry to say that much of this just does not make sense. Based on your statements, None of them completed a Standard Blood Test? But, one of them did an X-ray? Every Vet I visited over that last four Decades has preformed First a Fecal (gram stain), than a full spectrum blood test and then an x-ray. If they were not successful, they would then consulted a specialists, everyone of them.

Get your Amazon on a Solid Natural Diet plus a dry food (like pellets) to provide the additional Vit and Minerals.

In one of the Forums is a list of Avian Vets, in it will be some in your area.

The fact is, you need to see a Certified Avian Vet and being in Southern CA, this Forum has members and they can provide names of them. Being out of Money can be handled if you work with their facility manager.

The list of supplements seems like alot. I would listen to the advice you got here and stop giving most of that stuff. Also please dont get mad but a vet simply isnt the same as an avian vet and not all vets are good vets.

I am so sorry to hear of all the health problems your Amazon has ánd I do hope he gets better soon and that some answer is found that can lead to a proper diagnosis and cure. I am no expert in this area but I think you have been given great advice and I would echo what the others have said. Hope things work out and that yiu get answers and a cure. I think that specialist you went to that laughed at you was a jerk. Hang in there and walk hand in hand with those giving you good advice for the sake of the Adorably handsome Buddy and his long term health. What a Gorgeous pic of a Beautiful Amazon

Thank you for your replies. I understand that it is probably impossible to visit a forum and not have a wide array of viewpoints and opinions. I accept the chaos..

I realize my post is not entirely representative of the road I have been on.. but it is really difficult to put a years worth of struggle into a single post. I have seen the vet(s) over 30 times this year.

To address the comments (many thanks for your input - I respect every single one of them) and hopefully zoom in clearer..

* I don't haphazardly give supplements. I have gone over every single one of them with my vet and also a naturopath who specializes in small animals.

* I am not giving all the supplements at once! Lol. This is just my medicine cabinet from this last year.

* I have gone as far as I can with conventional medicine. Every vet I have seen is trained to treat birds. They are not cat and dog only vets. I love my vet. He is kind, honest, and very knowledgeable. He has done the best he can and has been very generous only charging for a recheck each time I come in.

* I have gone to other avian vets in an attempt to see if they can see anything new with all the data.. a possible answer my vet can't see. No dice. Everyone agrees that we are at this point just managing a chronic illness.

* I went to see a bird specialist as a last resort. Just to get his opinion. He is one out of 10 bird only specialists in the US. He was rude and unkind. He tried to get me to have my bird re-sexed for $100 because I didn't have papers to prove he's male (yes, he's had a DNA test).

* I believe in herbal medicine and nutrition. I also believe in conventional medicine. I believe they should "talk". I knew this was serious so I have had my bird on every anti-fungal, antibiotic, anti-bacterial medicine there is. I have had cultures grown and medicine customized for the culture. I have had bloodwork and x-rays. I have had specialists evaluate the results. I am at the end of the road with vets and I will not pay any more money to see another one.. not because I don't like them, but because it's not working.

* I believe in Chinese Medicine. I have a chronic bladder issue (interterstial cystitis) and had not luck with conventional medicine and urologists. At one point I couldn't sleep for 5 days it was so bad. I was like a walking zombie. I hobbled around on my bike to every alternative place I could find begging someone to see if their treatment would work and to trade for website work because I was out of money. I finally stumbled on a medium who said she sees a Chinese man helping me. She said it was probably an acupuncturist. I found one to trade with me and felt relief the very first treatment. I now only have to see an acupuncurist once a year and balance my diet to keep it under control. I also have had a bladder infection that almost went to my kidneys cured by Chinese herbs just as conventional medicine would only I didn't end up with a secondary infection. For these reasons I add these systems of thought to my understanding of valid possibilities. (Note: Not all spirit mediums are out to take your money.)

* Baytril and medicines of the like are seriously deteriorating his liver. I can't give him any more.

* I do realize that not all supplements go together which is why I have conflicting thoughts on different days. I don't know which route to go. Chinese medicine? or Curcumin & Bee Propolis.. (are they complimentary?) The Chinese formula is customized for birds. It is a very common one meant to help with excess dampness, inflammation, and help him digest fluids better. It goes with the Mushroom formula which strengthens the immune system. Curcumin and Bee Propolis have a lot of properties that go hand in hand with Liver, GI tract, and HPV issues (also widely given to birds safely if the doseage is correct) and both have posts from the internet helping parrots with similar issues. Two very different approaches. Last week I was taking the logical approach of trying to attack the problem.. this week I feel his body needs to get into balance.

* Today he is off everything except this morning I gave him the two Chinese formulas to see how he reacts.

* My thoughts are that if HPV can be controlled in humans there is a way to control it in animals. The liver can be nourished as best as possible. If there is an obstruction .. well .. I can't afford surgery so anything else is just a long shot. Massage can't hurt and will probably stimulate his circulation and energy points for good health anyways. Is it bad to squirt some water up his vent if I do it sparingly? He has a growth right on the inside of his vent. There must be something natural I can apply topically to help it retract..

Blessings to everyone who too the time out to reply to me I am so grateful! (((*.*)))

Oh, I almost forgot the good stuff, Lol. Buddy is about 24 years old. I got him when he was 8 from a dying man whose wife didn't want to get stuck with the bird. I didn't plan on getting a parrot, but my boyfriend at the time convinced me. So the story goes.. boyfriend gone, bird still here. We have grown really close over the years. He is an avid music lover and I take him with me to my artists group every week in his little birdy backpack. I love the drive there because he is like a little kid in my front seat singing at the top of his lungs to the tunes on the radio. He loves Frank Sinatra, Rockabilly, and that song Livin' On A Prayer (by Bon Jovi). We are right now.. Livin' On A Prayer

Much Love <3 Please pray for me and my bird. xo

You mentioned Papillomavirus. Has it been confirmed he has this, or are you guessing that's what he has based on a growth around his vent?
BirdChannel.com
Papillomatosis or Warts in Birds | VCA Animal Hospitals
https://www.beautyofbirds.com/papilloma.html

Birds with papillomavirus CAN be cured AFTER the growths have been removed via laser.

But you also mentioned in your initial post the vet suspected he may have aspergillus. Looky here, please: http://www.parrotforums.com/amazons/61304-zilla-ill-again.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/amazons/49984-will-aloe-detox-help-kidneys.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/amazons/50647-zilla-had-her-last-dose-meds.html

If you read through these threads, you can quickly see some diseases are MUCH harder to treat than others, unfortunately.

Please DO NOT give Buddy an enema!

I DO wish you and Buddy the best!!

We were initially attacking it like it was Aspergillosis.. which is why I nebulized with Turbinaphine around Christmas time. It reduced the plaques. All the vets seem to be leaning towards this thing not really acting like Aspergillosis over time so we have been leaning toward Papilloma Virus. I cannot afford laser treatment at this time. Also, I would have to go back to the arrogant vet who charges an arm and a leg. I am working on my website for Buddy so I can maybe launch a GoFundMe campaign. In the meantime, I still want to try to address the issues with what I've got before they close in on him. The question is what goes together. The naturopath was very kind, but his plan was too much.. too many things.. but I got information about which supplements are safe and the dosage.

Please know that this forum never allows any links and/or sites that have a 'funding' option, including 'gofundme'.

We were severely burnt in the past, therefore this strict rule will always be enforced.

We are not doing this because we are mean. Just clarifying.

I didn't even think of posting my GoFundMe on this site.. But will be sure not to. Thanks for the heads up about protocol so I don't offend someone.

You have my prayers. I do hope you find something that works...all the questions you ask are beyond my little knowledge of birds but you certainly do have my prayers and a wish for a speedy recovery for Buddy.

Thank you!

Here is a link to some pictures and a couple funny videos of him
About - A Girl and Her Bird

Members of the Amazon Forum and especially those who have taken the time to response to this Thread, please see the OP's link to her website and at least the following to sections of that website:

Donations

Monthly Archives, May 2016 and specific May 2, 2016

Members of the Amazon Forum and especially those who have taken the time to response to this Thread, please see the OP's link to her website and at least the following two sections of that website:

Donations

Monthly Archives, May 2016 and specific May 2, 2016

I believe that it will speak for itself. Please remember that this Forum does not support Donation requests!

!!! I did NOT post this trying to get donations!!! I am genuinely trying to research what I can do for my bird! The donations section was not even up when I posted my message! You can check a couple other forums where I am researching whole food diets and asking questions about herbs and parrots because vets aren't knowledgeable in that area.. I was just showing off my parrot. It's a video of him singing with vibrato which I thought was cool since I can never seem to get it on camera. I did copy the reply to questions but that's because I took so long to type it and realized that I was unclear in my initial post.. Which is hard to be clear because the road has been long. I have all my medical docs on my website. My hands are tied. I really can't afford anymore. I've spent $5,000 and I still have a critically ill bird who is still very much alive. I am just a caring person honestly researching to know what to put in him. I didn't post this as an advertisement.

I have been active lately on the Avian Raw Whole Food Nutrition Facebook group and Avian Avenue Urgent - Help! I am out of options.. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum. That link I posted was May 1st. You can check the date my donation account was started and see it was started after May 1st. I am using my website now as a tool through Pinterest and YouTube.. I am not a person who forcefully advertises when it's not wanted. In fact, I researched for a whole summer how to add SEO services to my website business and at the end of it all that found myself disgusted with the ethics and Internet clogging tactics and a wasted summer. I have 5,000 trifold flyers I am now using in the bottom of my parrots cage. (I have proof of that, too)