"Girls, time for bed!" "But..."

Hi guys,

as you have probably guessed, these days, I am struggling with finding ways to get my two 'zon girls in their aviary after they have had their time outside and I need to put them back to be able to do some other stuff.

They are still very young, about 10 months now. Of course, I have learned the hard way that chasing them around will only get me a bite and damaged trust, so I have sworn never to do that again and I am still in the process of fixing the relationship with my younger one, who appears more stubborn than her older sis and was the victim more often than her sibling.

Still, the issue persists. The only way I have found that works is, of course, food. On weekdays in the morning, I put just enough in their bowl to hold them over to the afternoon when I get back home and they get hungry before dinner is served. On one of the weekend days, I clean the aviary thoroughly, throwing out all the beech shavings and disinfecting the tray. Since I know that on that day, I am going to let them out earlier, I remove their bowl well in advance so that when I am finished, they are hungry again and usually go in by themselves.

I usually do not have trouble getting them in their aviary for the meals, although more often than not, one of them is kind of hesitant and it's obvious she does not really want to go in. However, if I gave them excess treats during the morning training, let them out after a meal, or really just gave them some food while they are out and about, it would be next to impossible for me to get them back.

The aviary they share cannot be split vertically, so it is preferable to get them both inside at the same time. (I really should have opted for an aviary that does have that capability, but oh well...)

I know this is a rather general issue that most parrot owners face, but I am especially interested in learning how you, fellow Amazon keepers have handled this problem, when/if it arose.

Thank you all in advance for your replies and your time.

Well, you are clearly coming to understand the reason having two Parrots in a cage is not a great idea. And too multiple your frustration, you have 'two' Amazon Sisters that are very bright and willing to trade-off on making your life both Wonderful and Crazy all at the same time! And, what two young sisters do you know that are willing to go to bed early, and at the same time, not somehow finding a way to drive their Human nuts!

I have a Sister Inlaw that had twin girls! It wasn't until they had completed High School that either her or her husband looked like they where getting a good nights sleep!

As part of your Post to another recent Amazon Thread, I provided some insight on working with Amazons!

You have likely tried this, but its worth offering just in case! Try placing the more difficult girl in the cage first and then her more complaint sister. FYI: You will likely have to close the cage door once the first one is in the cage. It is important to understand that the pushier of the two will be at the cage door ready to escape as so as you open to put her sister in with her.

At some point, the need to have time for other things and/or the lack of winning will have you getting the second cage!

Aaaah, the joys of sisters!

I'm a low-tech parront with a low-tech (no impulse control, not too bright) Patagonian, buttttt...
I toss his favorite treat (a plump, hot green chile) into his cage and he flaps in after it.
Never fails, after 30 years. He only gets the one giant Anaheim pepper a day... at night...
Could a super-delicious treat help????
I suspect your girls are too clever to fall for that but, hey... just showing some solidarity.

Thank you both for your replies. I am immensely grateful for any input you can provide.

@SailBoat, you hit the nail on the head more than you probably know. Just yesterday, as I was cleaning their aviary, the girls just would not stop trying to get to and bite at things they are not supposed to and they constantly flew at and tried to bite each other as well, which seems to be a growing nasty habit of theirs that I may need to address. As I tried to keep them apart, I got a few bites -- not too serious, mind you, but still -- and, being already quite tired from my mentally exhausting work, I grew irritated to the point where I quite literally started seeing red and, I am a little ashamed to admit, I quite angrily grabbed both of them and put them in their aviary I was not even done with cleaning yet. I thought I was about to lose my mind and I needed a couple mintes to calm down. I try not to use the aviary as punishment so as to not make them hate it, but I feel I have little choice in these moments.

I love my ladies and I know I would miss them, but in these moments, I question my decision of getting them in the first place, to be fair. I do hope they get a little calmer with age. The idea of getting an aviary that can be split into two is also becoming more and more desirable.

@GaleriaGila, thank you for the suggestion. I suppose a treat would certainly help, but my opinion is that I probably should not reward them for something they are supposed to do regardless of whether they want to or not.

clayman said:

Thank you both for your replies. I am immensely grateful for any input you can provide.

@SailBoat, you hit the nail on the head more than you probably know. Just yesterday, as I was cleaning their aviary, the girls just would not stop trying to get to and bite at things they are not supposed to and they constantly flew at and tried to bite each other as well, which seems to be a growing nasty habit of theirs that I may need to address. As I tried to keep them apart, I got a few bites -- not too serious, mind you, but still -- and, being already quite tired from my mentally exhausting work, I grew irritated to the point where I quite literally started seeing red and, I am a little ashamed to admit, I quite angrily grabbed both of them and put them in their aviary I was not even done with cleaning yet. I thought I was about to lose my mind and I needed a couple mintes to calm down. I try not to use the aviary as punishment so as to not make them hate it, but I feel I have little choice in these moments.

I love my ladies and I know I would miss them, but in these moments, I question my decision of getting them in the first place, to be fair. I do hope they get a little calmer with age. The idea of getting an aviary that can be split into two is also becoming more and more desirable.

@GaleriaGila, thank you for the suggestion. I suppose a treat would certainly help, but my opinion is that I probably should not reward them for something they are supposed to do regardless of whether they want to or not.

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Sanity will be much easier if you consider two cages that can be moved away from each other when (not If) needed. You have several road bumps coming as part of the normal process of your girls getting a bit older.

It is a reality that a single Amazon can drive a poor Human to wits end, but two of the same age, wow! Remember that your girls are smart and you 'always' need to be a bit smarter. You need to stay in front of them. I know that cages take lots of room and are expensive! But, if you have any want to stay in front of the girls, you really need to be looking at that reality.

SailBoat said:

Sanity will be much easier if you consider two cages that can be moved away from each other when (not If) needed. You have several road bumps coming as part of the normal process of your girls getting a bit older.

It is a reality that a single Amazon can drive a poor Human to wits end, but two of the same age, wow! Remember that your girls are smart and you 'always' need to be a bit smarter. You need to stay in front of them. I know that cages take lots of room and are expensive! But, if you have any want to stay in front of the girls, you really need to be looking at that reality.

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Thank you very much for your insight, SailBoat. My idea was that with a splittable aviary, the girls could spend time interacting with each other inside the cage while I would still have the option to separate them physically if need be. If you are suggesting that getting two separate cages is the more preferable route, then I will seriously consider this alternative as well.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, what are the bumps you hint at? I know that their personalities are going to go through some significant changes as they reach maturity, but I have been unable to find more detailed information on that during my research so far.

Again, thank you very much for your reply.

clayman said:

Thank you very much for your insight, SailBoat. My idea was that with a splittable aviary, the girls could spend time interacting with each other inside the cage while I would still have the option to separate them physically if need be. If you are suggesting that getting two separate cages is the more preferable route, then I will seriously consider this alternative as well.

Also, if you don't mind my asking, what are the bumps you hint at? I know that their personalities are going to go through some significant changes as they reach maturity, but I have been unable to find more detailed information on that during my research so far.

Again, thank you very much for your reply.

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As long as you can physically separate the two girls, your okay.

Over the next sixteen month (+/-), your girls are going to grow-up quickly. During that time, they will test each other and you and also begin setting into place Amazon Body Language. That is why it is so very important that you have learned this Language so as you can see each of them as they set in place. The expressions, seen by their presenting of the Body Language is their bodies preparation for the beginning of the onset of the major change effected and defined by the onset of Hormonal changes.

It is very important to activity work at Socializing them, in addition to assuring that you have general handling skills and their responses to them in place and working well. Things like: Stepping-up and down, moving in and out of the cage(s). Being able to Step-up /off of any number of surfaces including the floor or from high places. Bite Pressure Training and transfer between members of the family and/or those individuals that commonly visit your home during any given week.

Assure that you are building into place 'contact calls' that will develop a relationship and more importantly a continue to build the trust bond between you and separately each of your girls!

Open the door and point inside. Say, Sammy get inside. First, we chew the rope. Then we ring the bell on top. Then, we get onto the door and ring the bell on the side. Then we go inside and go to bed.