Your opinions on nature vs nurture for a well behaved amazon?

baserock_love

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So the more I research the more I think i would be a good fit for adopting an amazon since I love animals, work at home, get to choose my own hours and can actually afford the time for daily training sessions and i've always enjoyed animal training with previous pets and was pretty damn good at it (Every pet I've ever had bit, was excessively loud and/or was not housebroken.....till I trained them, from cockatiels to dogs to cats to ferrets. I've never had a pet with behavioral issues i couldn't address.). I'm picking the brain of every amazon owner I meet and researching the trainers they recommend and I can't help but notice this consistent disagreement between the owners and the trainers THEY recommend as the experts in parrot behavior so I'm wondering what you guys think.

I really just want as realistic expectations as possible before I adopt a bird with a few potentially bad habits. I will be volunteering at a Houston parrot rescue 4 days a month soon so that will be some excellent experience. I have also read the stickied threads here already.

Two things that come up over and over again are "Amazons bite, period, they will always bite, you can't do anything about it, it's their nature.". They say "Oh my baby is such a little sweetheart but my fingers are covered in bandaids at all times and she will randomly remove flesh from my ear if she's on my shoulder every few months!!" or "Amazons are loud they love to scream, nothing you can do about it hope you don't have neighbors!" They say you can train them to bite less, but you will get bitten, and you'll get bitten bad. They tell me to read and listen to barbara heidenreich and a few other often recurring names.

So i start reading everything I can get my hands on from the trainers THEY recommend and the trainers like Barbara say "I don't get bit by any of my birds, they don't try to bite me, my birds don't scream excessively, i would never tolerate that, I train them not to bite and not to scream, buy my dvd for $19.95 and i'll show you how to do it.".

So i talk to these owners and it seems like most of them work 8 to 10 hours a day, own 3 to 10 birds and couldn't possibly have time to work with any one of their birds with any consistency and are just resigned to the fact that their sweet little baby is going to be drawing blood on a regular basis. Often when i ask them how they address screaming and biting it seems that according to teh very trainers they recommended they react in a way that reinforces that behavior to the bird. I hear them say "Oh when he bites me i put him in his play area and turn my back" and "When my bird screams i come to wherever it is and try to distract it with play or treats.". So basically your bird knows that if it wants to be left alone and be dropped off at the equivalent of birdie six flags amusement park or it wants a snack and entertainment delivered, all it has to do is bite or scream....

So is an amazon that bites and screams throughout the day a work in progress? Is an amazon that doesn't bite and doesn't scream excessively a lie used to sell training dvds? The trainers all say "There's no lost cause birds, they never stop learning. You can change their behavior.", a lot of owners say "Some birds are just nasty and can't be tamed.".

It seems both could have potential ulterior motives. Trainers want to sell merch and parrot owners want to discourage potential owners with naive expectations so yet another bird doesn't end up dumped on a shelter or languishing in a cage.
 
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GaleriaGila

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I enjoyed your narrative. Good questions and good for you for reaching out.
We are blessed here with a wonderful community of Amazon lovers. I will look forward to their joining in.
 

Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
With zons it's all about the socialization, in my opinion.

Nurture.
 

wrench13

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So, Has Salty ever bitten me? I describe a bite as one needing a bandaid on up to having a mellon baller scoop of meat taken out. In that context, no he has not. Has he nipped me with a pinhole bite? Yes, and always my fault, because I was not paying attention, or from excessively rough play. Have I been bitten in the above context? Oh yeah. Including the melon baller. All my fault, because I was not paying attention, or I did not know the bird well. As far as screaming, Amazons definitely have their loud times, but its the same time, or stimulus, every day. Zons like to talk, whether its zon gibberish or words or phrases we teach them. Now if you are dumb enough to run to the bird every time they use their contact call for you, you are teaching them to be loud all the time. Teaching or training means you have to be consistent, every time, as you likely know already. ANd amazons are smart, real smart. Smart enough to teach you. And thats ok as long as you learn together. I think the bird has to feel like it is part of your flock , thats why Salty always eats dinner with us, right next to the table. Every nite.
 
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baserock_love

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So, Has Salty ever bitten me? I describe a bite as one needing a bandaid on up to having a mellon baller scoop of meat taken out. In that context, no he has not. Has he nipped me with a pinhole bite? Yes, and always my fault, because I was not paying attention, or from excessively rough play. Have I been bitten in the above context? Oh yeah. Including the melon baller. All my fault, because I was not paying attention, or I did not know the bird well. As far as screaming, Amazons definitely have their loud times, but its the same time, or stimulus, every day. Zons like to talk, whether its zon gibberish or words or phrases we teach them. Now if you are dumb enough to run to the bird every time they use their contact call for you, you are teaching them to be loud all the time. Teaching or training means you have to be consistent, every time, as you likely know already. ANd amazons are smart, real smart. Smart enough to teach you. And thats ok as long as you learn together. I think the bird has to feel like it is part of your flock , thats why Salty always eats dinner with us, right next to the table. Every nite.

Yeah, sometimes people deserve to get bit, i'm not counting stuff like that or play bites even though i will be bite pressure training.

LIke look at my last pet for instance who i loved dearly, was a ferret, was probably the hardest loss i've ever had. Literally the first thing he did when i got him to my car when he was a kit was he took a big chunk out of my knuckle, he seemed so friendly in the store so i figured he could be handled, nope, he was terrified and i didn't look. Within 5 months though he understood that biting beyond play pressures was unacceptable, and he never bit anybody ever again and he also never had a reason he'd ever want to bite anybody ever again. If he bit me or somebody else like that even once every year that would be unacceptable. I would work with him as much as i need to to correct that.

I dunno, what's making me weary are these amazon owners who literally say that their birds are sweet and love them but are just flat out unpredictable. THey love to be on their shoulder but once every few weeks to once every few years out of nowhere (or more likely they couldn't read it because it was on their shoulder out of eyeshot) their zon will latch onto their lip or nose or ear and cause serious damage.

LIke it seems if it was the case that that is just the nature of zons, nobody would trust them on a shoulder so close to their eyes. how could you EVER trust a bird like that around company or children?

One woman who has a mealy i've been talking to says her zon calls to his flock for about 15 minutes every morning, and during the day he's a chatter box, but not loud like his morning calls which are very loud. That to me seems fine.

Zons are gonna zon but I"m going to be very careful to not reinforce screaming and as barbara suggests, reinforce the softer cute noises. If they scream i'm a ghost, if they do cute vocalizations i come.

This is all good though. I plan to do a lot of socializing, already worked it out with my housemate and friends that anybody comes over, they gotta give him something, if i get him harnass trained and he enjoys going out with me, he's going to hopefully learn that good things happen when he's around humans, all humans.

I'm hoping that this rescue i'm volunteering at will let me foster and if I get a bird and we just fall in love with each other i'll just adopt him.
 

SailBoat

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Who the HECK and where the HECK are you getting this stuff! Lot's of 'they say,' 'they recommend,' etc... Who the HECK is they?

I am not sure that there is much room to add as part of the two Posts above (Birdman666 and Wrench13).

So as a double check, you stated that you read the Stickies at the top of the Forums. The I Love Amazon - ... Thread - First Segment with the same title. I do not recall any of that stuff as the take away from that 'Sticky!'

If you are shopping for answers, that's fine, but that means that you will be getting the answers that you have gotten! I am fairly certain that the Author's and their Articles are not the leaders with long lines of highly credible writings. Your likely reading - just as a guess "Parrot Wizard" and that group?

Amazons are bloody smart and to my knowledge, do not suffer an idiot well! As a result they provide that idiot with just rewards! All of which fills the internet with story after story of the Green Killer!

So, is your goal to be a Owner of a Amazon? Or, is it to be Owner by an Amazon? Your answer will clearly define the quality of your research. Which is it?


FYI: I'm an Amazon Snob! So, if this sound snotty, that's where it comes from!
 
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baserock_love

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Who the HECK and where the HECK are you getting this stuff! Lot's of 'they say,' 'they recommend,' etc... Who the HECK is they?

I am not sure that there is much room to add as part of the two Posts above (Birdman666 and Wrench13).

So as a double check, you stated that you read the Stickies at the top of the Forums. The I Love Amazon - ... Thread - First Segment with the same title. I do not recall any of that stuff as the take away from that 'Sticky!'

If you are shopping for answers, that's fine, but that means that you will be getting the answers that you have gotten! I am fairly certain that the Author's and their Articles are not the leaders with long lines of highly credible writings. Your likely reading - just as a guess "Parrot Wizard" and that group?

Amazons are bloody smart and to my knowledge, do not suffer an idiot well! As a result they provide that idiot with just rewards! All of which fills the internet with story after story of the Green Killer!

So, is your goal to be a Owner of a Amazon? Or, is it to be Owner by an Amazon? Your answer will clearly define the quality of your research. Which is it?


FYI: I'm an Amazon Snob! So, if this sound snotty, that's where it comes from!

As valuable as those threads are, it would be pretty stupid to assume 2 sticky threads on one of a half dozen parrot forums are the final iron clad authority on parrots and parrot behavior.

The "they" are parrot owners on and off this forum. Every single amazon owner current and former that i can get to talk to me. That is who I'm getting this stuff from, parrot owners. Many of "they" are members of this very forum because I'm reading every old thread i can find on it about amazons with behavioral issues and what people say here.

People recommend most often by They are Barbara Heidenreich, like 9/10 times her name comes up. There is also Sally Blanchard a book by Gary A. Gallerstein, the parrot wizard came up a few times but few enough i just watch some of his videos on how he trained certain specific behaviors. I'm mostly focusing on barbara as she by far was the most recommended and most of the people recommended seem to basically be using her techniques.

My goal is the same as anybody who has a companion animal. To take care of it, have a meaningful relationship with it and not have it be a monster because I didn't know how to deal with it and have one or both of us be unhappy with the arrangement. That is why i am getting information and opinions from as many varied sources as possible to try to figure out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't, who's put in the work and who hasn't. Yes it's more work than reading two sticky threads and calling it a day but call me crazy, I like to do the legwork before I get into a lifelong commitment to an intelligent living creature.
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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And a Normal Grey Cockatiel named BB who came home with me on 5/20/2016.
I have been owned by an Amazon for nearly 30 years. I got Amy when she was just 4 months old...Does she scream? NEVER! is she loud? YES!! but it is in "words" HELLO!!! HOW ARE YOU???? WHATCHA DOING???

Does she bite? rarely..only if I haven't/didn't read her first. There are times I will not even ATTEMPT to have her with me,just leave her be..cause I can read her pretty well now..she doesn't want to be bothered so be it.

SOCIALIZE...she goes everywhere with me..has met many people,been in different settings and will almost always go to ANYONE..but you have to "know" how they are feeling,and that takes time,and patients.

Today at Walmart a lady came up to us and asked "can I pet her,does she bite?" And I adviced the woman not to try,coz I could see Amy was excited and could have bit the woman..better safe than sorry in my book.


Jim
 

SailBoat

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So as a double check, you stated that you read the Stickies at the top of the Forums. The I Love Amazon - ... Thread - First Segment with the same title. I do not recall any of that stuff as the take away from that 'Sticky!'

Amazons are bloody smart and to my knowledge, do not suffer an idiot well! As a result they provide that idiot with just rewards! All of which fills the internet with story after story of the Green Killer!

So, is your goal to be a Owner of a Amazon? Or, is it to be Owner by an Amazon? Your answer will clearly define the quality of your research. Which is it

As valuable as those threads are, it would be pretty stupid to assume 2 sticky threads on one of a half dozen parrot forums are the final iron clad authority on parrots and parrot behavior.

The "they" are parrot owners on and off this forum. Every single amazon owner current and former that i can get to talk to me. That is who I'm getting this stuff from, parrot owners. Many of "they" are members of this very forum because I'm reading every old thread i can find on it about amazons with behavioral issues and what people say here.

People recommend most often by They are Barbara Heidenreich, like 9/10 times her name comes up. There is also Sally Blanchard a book by Gary A. Gallerstein,

My goal is the same as anybody who has a companion animal. To take care of it, have a meaningful relationship with it and not have it be a monster because I didn't know how to deal with it and have one or both of us be unhappy with the arrangement. That is why i am getting information and opinions from as many varied sources as possible to try to figure out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't, who's put in the work and who hasn't. Yes it's more work than reading two sticky threads and calling it a day but call me crazy, I like to do the legwork before I get into a lifelong commitment to an intelligent living creature.

I appreciate you efforts! Please understand that my effort is simply to point!

That said, my comments regarding the two specific Sticky Threads was not that they are the end all in working with Amazons. With Clarity - The 'I Love Amazons -... Thread and specifically the first Segment (which uses the same name), targets why some Humans fail with Amazons and others are rewarded with a long and loving relationship with an Amazon. The amazing part is that it can happen in the very same household.

I have read Barbara Heidenreich, have seen two of her live presentations and have a very clear understanding as to the reason she has the success rate stated. I also understand the darker side.

I have read and have near all of Sally Blanchard books and see her and Liz Wilson as true leaders in they method of caring and loving Amazons (Parrots in General) from hatching to very Senior Parrots. Sally's Handbook is the best 'life time' tool available. Also, those who are carrying their works forward is a couple who own the Parrot Island Parrot Store in MN. Sorry, but their names elude me at the moment. Their writings are leading the Avian Care World forward. Their writings are available on their stores website.

Gary A. Gallerstein books are beginning to age, but they are clearly excellent works in the presentation of Avian Medical Knowledge. They are, to this day, highly recommended for those who want a more in-depth Avian Medical knowledge.

So, is your goal to be a Owner of a Amazon? Or, is it to be Owner by an Amazon? Your answer will clearly define the quality of your research. Which is it?
 

chris-md

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I wish I had advise for you. But I'm relatively terrified of amazons. They an cockatoos are the only birds you HEARD ABOUT actually flying to attack someone.

That said, I MUST agree with Mark (birdman666) that with any bird, Amazon, macaw, conure, caique, eclectus, doesn't matter...it all comes down to socialization. I just don't trust Amazon or cockatoo innate behavior to begin with.

Ps. Based on reputation and READING alone, not personal experience. I admit I'm more incline to trust the smaller amazons, lilac crowns and such, maybe even a mealy. But the majority are on my scary list.
 

Kentuckienne

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I offer you an amateur's advice, having been owned by one Amazon.

Amazon's are very feist, interactive birds. They will need attention. Our's was home alone all day for years while his human worked, but he got solid shoulder/arm/scratchy time all evening after that, and some out of cage eating fresh veggies in the morning. Don't adopt an Amazon unless you can offer it solid company.

He always had things to chew like hanging stick toys and he would chew anything in reach so had to be watched any time he was out of the cage. Nice furniture, pens, paper, anything in reach of beak was in danger. Don't adopt an Amazon if you can't commit to providing toys and foraging opportunities constantly.

He had a bell that he liked to ring incessantly so it had to be taken away from time to time and given as a treat. Amazon's like to make noise, which can be talking, mumbling, calling loudly, ringing bells etc. Amazons are not good birds for apartment life unless the neighbors are deaf or work all day.

Part of the yelling is that they want to be part of the flock. If you aren't in the room, or if you are in the room and not noticing that they want you to pick them up, give them food, or whatever they can make some pretty impressive noises. Nothing like a macaw, but loud. I had good luck in not reacting to the screams...not even looking up...but responding instantly with a whistle. If he stopped screaming and made any other sound, any quieter sound, I responded instantly. It didn't take long for the screaming to stop when we were in view. If we were in another room, we'd respond to a contact call with a response, usually his name or a hi or whatever, and that was often enough. So most screaming issues can be managed with consistent responses, not reinforcing the screams and rewarding the noises you like.

Amazon seem to be generally intelligent and social. If he wants his bell,many he can see it, he will let you know. He will yell until he gets it. If he can climb over to it himself, he will. Don't expect to teach an Amazon to stop going for what it wants. Just hide the thing where he can't see it, and don't let him see you hide it either. They have object persistence and will remember where it is and work to get it. Don't let them see you retrieve it either, or they will remember the place and go look for it. We only had an issue with the bell, and with the inside of the secretary desk which had cubbyholes and was obviously the greatest nesting site on earth. He never stopped wanting in there, and that could precipitate a scream session requiring distraction. If you have an Amazon, don't hesitate to use your big brain to manage his environment and triggers.

The main thing that helps with biting is the thing that helps with everything: respect him as an intelligent, thinking being. Yelling, talking, singing, biting, chewing, etc. are ways they communicate, if your bird is trying to tell you something, listen to it. Use your big brain to figure out what's being said. Decide how to respond...just because he's telling you he wants out of the cage when you are going to work doesn't mean you have to let hi out. But maybe you can come up with an acceptable response. Whenever we go out, I come tell the birdie we are going out, be a good bird, watch the house, and give him a small treat. Now he associates my going out with getting a treat and I can slip out while he's distracted.

If I would ask him to step up, it was always for a reason. He needs to go in the other room to have dinner with us or go in the cage or go someplace. I would ask politely. He would either comply quickly if he saw that he was going somewhere he wanted to go, or comply calmly if he was in the mood, or he would growl and refuse. In the last case, I would keep standing there making eye contact. He would wait long enough to feel that he had established control over his actions, and maybe reflect on what I wanted, then nine times out of ten lift his foot and allow me to take him up. Sometimes he was really stubborn but needed to go, and then I'd get a wood perch and get him quickly. Those times were not often but sometimes you have to do it. The point is, he was treated with respect. He wasn't a toy or subordinate, so we asked politely and we asked for good reasons and he was allowed to say no. He's going to say no anyway, it's just a matter of how often. If he feels pushed and helpless, there will be more biting and lunging and defensive or aggressive actions. If he feels at home, unthreatened, comfortable with his place in the pecking order, there will be more cooperation. Think about it...what tools does a parrot have to control the world? He can use his syrinx to scream or call or talk, he can use his feet to pick things up or hold on, he can use his wings to go where he wants or escape, and he uses his beak for everything else. If you are trying to force him to do something he doesn't want to do, he will probably let you know by moving away. If he can't fly, he may start growling, fluffing up, leaning down with open beak. If you still persist he has no choice but to use his beak. Hey, he tried using his voice, his wings, and his feet and failed so what is left? If you understand this, you will be mostly in control of getting bitten or not because you won't put your body in biting range at the wrong time. You'll see the bite coming and take steps to avoid it.

Which is not to say they should be spoiled. Amazons are headstrong and stubborn and can get out of hand. It's up to you to set firm, reasonable, loving boundaries. Sally Blanchard's books are fantastic on this subject. If your Amazon were in a wild flock, the parents and peers would teach proper behaviors to allow him to fit in with the society and thrive. Since you are the flock, you must set the expectations and provide guidance so he can fit harmoniously into a human household. Someone who allows a parrot to become aggressive and bossy isn't doing the bird any favors, the bird may wind up in another home where it is punished or it might be exiled to a back room to rot and go insane. This is not kind. Work with your Amazon, work to understand what he wants and needs, understand what he says, teach him what is acceptable and what is not, be consistent, and you will maybe have a good outcome.

But a good outcome is not guaranteed. Parrots are living beings with personality. Some just don't like humans, or are fearful, or are excessively hormonal, or just don't like women, or don't like guys with beards....changing a parrot's basic personality is nearly impossible. If you decide that you have the time and energy needed to support an Amazon, if you are willing to make an 80 year commitment, if you are willing to treat them with respect and acceptance, then you should choose your Amazon with care. The best way is to allow the Amazon to choose you. Meet lots of them, see how they are, wait for the one who looks at you and says You! You! I've been waiting for you! and then all the rest will be so much easier. Let the ones who don't come to you find their own humans. You are going to be together for a long time, so a bit of patience will pay great rewards down the line.

Amazons are like no other parrot. Feisty, active, friendly, interactive, social and amusing at their best. Furious little b*st*rds at their worst. They pay attention to you and you have to reciprocate. And they are individuals. So you can read up on how to train them...Blanchard is very good....but in the end you will have to figure out what your particular Amazon is like and figure out how to respond. There's no magic system that will work with every bird. Learn how to reward good behavior, learn how not to inadvertently reward bad behavior but to ignore it or respond appropriately and create a system that works with you and your birdie.
 

mh434

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African Grey "Reno" - sadly, now gone from my life
We've had a couple of Amazons, plus a selection of other parrots. Our Lilac-crowned was a delight, even though he was terminally ill when we got him (ALL our parrots are rescues). We've had 100% success with our rescues....save one - see the thread "More Sammy weirdness"" in this section. Over the course of 3 years he went from cautious, to friendly, to loving, to 100% bonded...then, one day, he went completely wild. He's stayed that way for almost a year, despite the many, many things we've tried to tame him again, with zero success.

We've had experts come in, we've talked to veterinarians, etc., but we've never discovered what caused Sammy to suddenly believe that we didn't "keep the faith". And, he continues to grow more wild & aggressive each day, despite a vet checkup a couple of days ago, where he was determined to be a profoundly healthy bird in every respect.

I suspect that most 'Zons are loving, loyal birds...but Sammy's proof that they may not always remain that way.
 
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Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
With reference to the OP, my Amazon experience is long-term with a BFA. (a bit over 31 years) While he displays typical Amazon behaviors, the early road would have been far smoother had I been better versed in parrot psychology.

That said, I generally believe both nature and nurture are operative, extrapolated from my experience with a Goffins Cockatoo family of five. Acquired 2 wild-caught parents about 30 years ago and raised their 3 offspring from chick to adulthood. All five remain with me! Every baby was rejected by the parents roughly 3 days after hatch, meaning they were totally raised by humans. Each developed totally different personalities despite having identical parental genes, same environment, food, and primary hand-feeder. So why the differences? Nature AND nurture played a hand in their development.
 

mh434

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African Grey "Reno" - sadly, now gone from my life
^^^That is so true!!
 

Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
I've worked with so many zons I've lost count. I've fostered at least 8. I've been owned by five others.

They are one of the LEAST scary birds to work with PRECISELY BECAUSE they are so easy to read.

A bird's basic personality is what it is. They're as unique as we are. Which means they can be quite psychotic, or incredibly clingy, or somewhere in between BY NATURE. THAT is just a given. And this is why you always try to pick the bird that also picks you...

The reason I say NURTURE most of all, is my sweet Sally, my red lored, was once one of the worst biters we ever had down at the rescue... she was actually going to be destroyed because she was a hopeless case, and she was trying to maim not only people, but also other birds. (She had been badly abused!)

When I first got that bird, you couldn't handle her except wrapped up in a towel. About 2-3 weeks later she was perching on a person, still nipping. Within 2 months she was controlling her bite pressure, and stepping up for me.

Within 4 months she was startle trained, socialized, and would go to anyone without biting. That bird is now 18 years old, and has been with me now for 16 years...

THIS BIRD CURLS UP INTO A BALL AT NIGHT AND USES MY CHEEK FOR A PILLOW... AND STILL PREENS MY EYEBROWS, AND MY EYELASHES...

It was a FIVE HOUR A DAY JOB for four months, but I have been rewarded for doing it for over a decade and a half now... she's a joy to have around!

NURTURE! And proper diet, nutrition, and training.

ALL LIVING THINGS RESPOND TO LOVE AND PROPER CARE!!!
 
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Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Any bird that does not get handled, does not stay tame and will probably bite.

Any bird that spends too much time in it's cage, will tend to become cage bound and territorial.

Any bird that is not bite pressure trained, will not necessarily know it's own strength, and may injure you when it only wanted to be friendly and play.

Any bird that gets pushed into a corner, and abused, will defend itself and "forcefully assert it's personality." You wanna teach a bird to bite?! DO THAT!!
 

Anita1250

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Parrots
Blue Fronted Amazon 35 years old
I have a 34 year old blue front. He doesn't scream, except when he is startled. Then, it is usually one or two to call us. He does vocalize quiet loudly several times a day. Words, whistles and other strange Amazon noises. He bites once in a while, mostly little nips to let you know he doesn't like what you are doing. If you ignore the warning, you will get one good bite. I have had him all of his life, and will have him for the rest of his life. He runs the house, and just about everything that is done is done for the benefit of the bird. I lost my first husband 15 years ago, and Sam was pretty depressed. I got another husband only when I found one that could get along with the bird.

The moral of this story is that the bird is a lifelong commitment. Heck, it is more of a lifelong lifestyle that revolves around the parrot. We don't mind that, but if you do a parrot is not the right pet for you. I wouldn't have it any other way.
 

Kiwibird

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2012
9,539
111
Parrots
1 BFA- Kiwi. Hatch circa 98', forever home with us Dec. 08'
My amazon is a rescue. We got him around age 10. He bit A LOT (hard, blood drawing bites) when new and definitely tested his boundaries with screaming as well. Years of work and effort, trying various methods until we found ones that worked for him as an individual. Had more success adapting techniques intended for naughty toddlers than training tips for birds TBH. Found he did not respond to 'soft touch' strictly positive reinforcement training like promoted by Barbara Heiderich, the bird wizard, parrot tricks people etc... He needed consequences for bad behaviors as much as praise for good behaviors (like a time out, firm "NO" or "Bad Bird" or a step up drill, things along those lines). He is now very well behaved, enough so he isn't even caged during the day and is free-roaming. Hilarious to watch and very active. Unlikely to ever become a cuddly bird, he's never even put his head down for a head scratch and in general doesn't like physical contact (except stepping up). Learning to be more tolerant of touch but still clearly not finding it enjoyable. No clue why that is, but it's something we've excepted about him. He's a quiet little guy. Guess he found screaming got him nowhere so he doesn't have much else to say. Not a talker. He does vocalize when both me and my husband leave at the same time but that's it.

The big key is not relying on any one method and finding things that work for your bird as an individual. What one bird might respond well to, another may not respond to at all or respond negatively to. No one trainer or method of training works for every bird. The even bigger key is not giving up on them because you've failed after 1000 times. It may be the 1001 time they finally "get it" or a random idea you have on your own to solve a issue that works well for your bird (like our "mine" and "yours" cues). Also, for those interested in buying bird training DVDs, don't bother paying full price. Find them used on eBay for a fraction of the price! I have a bunch of bird tricks DVDs I got off eBay out of curiosity why everyone in the avian community hates them so much. I still don't get it and Kiwi has even learned a few little tricks I would've otherwise not taught to teach him. Naturally, there were some ideas they have I didn't feel were right for my bird and therefore never bothered trying/implementing. Birds aren't cars or toasters and bird training courses aren't manufacturer instruction manuals of how to operate and/or repair a parrot. They are merely suggestions of things that will likely be successful on some individuals. If you don't like an idea or think something isn't working for your bird, don't do it or stop doing it!
 
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Birdman666

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2013
9,904
258
San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
It's both.

And throw in understanding as well.

You could have the sweetest bird in the world, but if you mistreat it, or don't approach it correctly, or don't understand the body language you will still get bit...

I've rehabbed my fair share of zons that were cage bound and could not be handled when I got them. With patience and love, they bounce back.

Understanding? There are hormonal behaviors with zons, and those are biological in nature. You can't "train them out of it." there are times when you simply need to leave them be and don't force the interaction.

Tell a pregnant woman she's being moody sometime.... same deal. The hormones are all over the map. If she is it's not her fault! And I wouldn't want to be the one pointing it out to her... An amazon will only bite a finger, not your head off!
 

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