Honest Opinion on older zon? *photo*

HONEST OPINION **I’m all for constructive criticism but please be nice**

I’ve had Happy, the RLA, for about 2 years. Long story short she came to me from a friend who had a friend who wanted the bird gone. Friend didn’t know birds to well and wanted me to give her a shot at a normal life. She was my first lager bird…mind you I had conures at this time. If she didn’t work out with me she’d go back to my friend and be a cage piece. This was a bird that we were told was 20 years old. Lived on peanuts and Dollar Store parakeet seed. Lived in her cage 24/7. Was half blind due to cataracts. Owner smoked like a chimney in the same room. Beak was a mess. Could see every bone. Nails that curled. Stress bars all over. She came in a small cage, about a cockatiel sized one…with 2 perches, 2 bowls, and 1 tiny toy(if I remember). She REEKED of smoke. Had never seen a vet. She’s kill you if you tried touching her.

So off to the vet we went. She had bacteria in her crop and anal tract and mild Liver disease. And going by the band on her leg, which looks more like an import band, so we upped her age to what we think is closer to 40-50+. We trimmed up her beak and nails and unsurprisingly she was under weight. She was given meds to help bacteria and we attempted to switch her diet…I say attempted because it is STILL a fight ROFL. She still hates baby food, but she’s now enjoying Brown rice, quinoa, and the occasional steamed carrot or peas.

Here are some photos of her I took tonight when I pulled her to scrub her cage*please ignore the nails, I need to get her to the groomer but it’s been cold and snowy here*. YES, she gets out every so often but on her terms…she has bitten me enough times I know better lol. We use keywords with her to help her know what’s going on when we work with her. She’s great there and now LOVES a neck scratch from me. She still isn’t a huge eater and she is BUILT SMALL. She is maybe from feet to head about 7-7.25 inches tall. Very small bone structure. My groomer had RLA’s and even she said Happy is a dainty thing compared to others.

In your HONEST(but nice way of saying it) opinion…..how does she look? My vet and groomer are impressed by her look from then to know, they will say she’s night and day different. But she still looks aweful-ish to me. Medically speaking we are on the right track according to my vet…though the Liver Disease still isn’t completely under control…but even my vet said it’s not a fast fix with her situation. I see other Zons, say a YN the other day…and then I look at her and go “I’d call the ASPCA on myself”.

She gets toys(she isn’t a fan of toys though), clean fresh water daily, her food(isn’t what a bird owner would consider great but she loves it and we are still working on adding new things), clean cage and wiped perches, a room with a HEPA filter, spray bath daily, and I run a humidifier for 6 hours a day. And during the summer she gets to spend hours on her perch in front of the window and warm in the light after a good deep soaking bath a few times a week. She’s not 100% comfortable outside the cage.



So what do you think? Am I being dramatic or do you see something you might think stand out and need changed? Any ideas on how to?
****The food was a mix of her favorite stuff to keep her busy****

She does look underweight.
her colors are a bit on the dull side.
but all that being said I think you are doing a good job with her. It takes time.
If she is accepting scratches you have made good progress in making friends.
Keep up the good work.

I would recommend trying her out on birdy bread.
some of my pickiest eaters like it.

thanks for taking in this poor abused bird. My heart goes out to you and your new friend happy

texsize

I think she looks great! Yes, I can see her cataracts but that is part of the aging process. From what you have said, she has come a long way. Her feathers look good and she doesn't appear to be underweight. I mean she is not a kid and should not be compared to a young bird. You have done a marvelous job with her.

texsize said:

She does look underweight.
her colors are a bit on the dull side.
but all that being said I think you are doing a good job with her. It takes time.
If she is accepting scratches you have made good progress in making friends.
Keep up the good work.

I would recommend trying her out on birdy bread.
some of my pickiest eaters like it.

thanks for taking in this poor abused bird. My heart goes out to you and your new friend happy

texsize

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The fact that she still even has feathers that can be dull says a lot about this little girl. She is not a quitter.

eagle18 said:

texsize said:

She does look underweight.
her colors are a bit on the dull side.
but all that being said I think you are doing a good job with her. It takes time.
If she is accepting scratches you have made good progress in making friends.
Keep up the good work.

I would recommend trying her out on birdy bread.
some of my pickiest eaters like it.

thanks for taking in this poor abused bird. My heart goes out to you and your new friend happy

texsize

Click to expand...

The fact that she still even has feathers that can be dull says a lot about this little girl. She is not a quitter.

Click to expand...

No question she/he is not a quitter.

to me she does look underweight. you can see the definition of her Kiel bone and a sunken appearance in the breast area. the OP did ask for an honest opinion.

I had a RLA for 26 years. she passed away September last year. I think she was about 40-42 years old when she passed.

You can see a picture of her here: http://www.parrotforums.com/remembrance/70772-pacho-plumas.html

and compare coloration.

You have received excellent comments from both textsize and cnyguy.

The determination on age with the 'import' band is very appropriate. It is also likely a reason that regardless of Happy's life to date, she is as healthy as she is.

RLA have the largest variation is physical size with in the family Amazona. Her overall size, based on her skeleton is the only way you can determine a proper weight class.

Amazon's that have suffered a difficult life take much longer for both physical and emotional recovery. The emotional side just requires time and an everyday assurance that she is safe and loved. Place zero expectations in place, its all at her rate. We commonly see changes nearer to three years of on-going efforts to developing the bond /relationship. It all comes in very tiny-steps.

We use a Human grade, wide mix dry serving that includes: Seeds, Grains, Nuts, Chilies, Pastas, Freeze-dry Veggies and Fruits and Pellets. The wet mix contains a wide cross-section of natural fresh Veggies, Fruits and other foods common in the Amazons Natural Range. PM me, if you wish, and I will provide you the product's name and also a source for custom mixtures that target the requirements as showed in the Wide Spectrum Blood Testing. FYI: We remove the peanuts and sunflower seed from the mix package and provide those to several organizations in our area that can use those items for targeted Parrots.

Please visit the Amazon Forum and take a very long read of the second Sticky Titled: I Love Amazons - ... That Huge Thread contains over 30 segments targeting a wide cross-section of information that you will find very helpful for the Love and Care of your Amazon. Take special note of the Segment that speaks to an Amazon Diet.

Feathering is Dull: At only two years under your care, I am not surprised as you are likely still developing the foundation of the Amazons overall health. Over the next two and possible three years, you will begin to see ever increasingly larger molts as the replacement of feathers are heavily linked to the 'energy' reserves of the Parrot and you are still recharging. You will note that the Spring and Fall molts will resemble a snowstorm combined with body Feathers. A couple years from now, you will see an amazing change.

Looks skinny: See above as you are fighting developing a wider, healthier base and building body reserves.

FYI #1: Welcome to the Wonderful World of Amazons!!! A places where Amazons and their 'Staff' enjoy the reality of 'Amazon's Have More Fun!

FYI #2: Only fools are not nice to Amazon People. That said, as you have found, being owned by an Amazon can come with a high cost of blood, if you do not pay attention to their Body Language! Point is, once you become Amazon Center, Life with an Amazon is much easier. Also, Once you understand Amazon Body Language, less than Kind People are brush-offs!

Enjoy, your Amazon will continue to let you become more a part of her World and at some point, you will know what it means to be: Owned By An Amazon!!! To be Loved by an Amazon who has pulled from these depths is a true joy, I assure you of this!

Your doing Wonderful; Amazon Staff Person!!!

The cataracts can be an issue...but they can be mysterious in parrots! I had a Lilac Crowned 'Zon, and his eyes clouded over completely with cataracts to the point where he was blind. I took him to my avian vet, who got me an appointment with the world's leading parrot eye specialist. She examined him carefully, took scrapings, did extra blood work, etc., and determined that they were, in fact cataracts (not fungal, not an infection, or anything else), and very dense ones at that, with almost 100% occlusion.

We made an appointment to take him to her new practice in Vancouver, BC, for cataract surgery about 4 weeks hence. She also wanted to see him one week before the surgery.

Strangely, after the first appointment with her, his cataracts improved a tiny bit. Over the next few weeks, they really cleared up, to the point where they were almost gone. At the next appointment, she was stunned - she had neither seen, nor heard of, cataracts reabsorbing. Ever. She wrote up his case very thoroughly, planning on publishing it.

Parrots are very different creatures from others, and may have healing properties we know nothing about. Clearly, Pauli was one of those cases.

My point is...never give up. Happy may very well surprise you!

she looks pretty good to be honest, yeah she could do with getting a bit more food down her but let's be fair, compare her day 1 in that tiny cage I'm assuming barely moving, sullen looking ready to murder any and all her entered within her prison, stinking of smoke, messed up and full of those stress bars. Now look at her, outside her cage, her feathers looking nice and pretty, with some food on her face and looking interested in things going on.

You tell me if you see an improvement!

I echo what most said. She looks good considering her past. And if she is letting you give her scratchies, that is a big step on trust. I will bet in a year or 2 she will be like a new, older parrot, esp if you change her diet some. Good job, and thank you for caring for her.

What a precious little sweetheart! Thank you so much for saving her from that awful home she was in before.

She is a bit skinny, but would I be correct in assuming she doesn't fly much? When we got Kiwi he was real scrawny like that, you could easily feel his keel bone despite not needing to gain much weight. The vet said that because he never used his wings, he never developed the chest muscles flighted birds have. He still won't fly on his own, but years of daily flapping exercises have built his chest muscles up like a flighted bird so he's beefier now, like a normal amazon. To me, she doesn't necessarily look underfed, she looks like she has atrophied/underdeveloped chest muscles.

Being an old gal, their feathers do fade with age, similar to how we go grey. If she is more like 50-60, I think her plumage looks good for her age. My moms 45-50 y/o DYH who has been well cared for, is starting to fade a bit and not quite as perfect of plumage as when she was younger. I'm not sure much can be done for cataracts. My moms other amazon, a GCA had them from a fairly young age due to other health concerns and the vet never suggested doing anything about them like a surgery. I don't think it can be done on eyes that small. Just keep up what you're doing- speaking when your doing stuff so she knows she isn't in danger and that she's just being fed, cleaned etc... Keep up the good work with the diet changes too! It may be a long process, but you are making progress it seems. And even if you never quite get her on a 'ideal' diet or to enjoy paying or to be affectionate, the fact she has a safe, loving home and can do things she enjoys (you say she likes sitting in a warm window) is still a massive improvement in her quality of life and she is so much better off for having been saved by you

For her age and what she has been through, I think she looks amazing. Perhaps a little thin or less muscled than another bird, but as long as she is " Happy " it is a good thing. Keep trying to introduce more foods that are good for her. She may throw them out 50 times before she tries it, but keep picking it up and putting it back.

Amazons are amazing creatures. They are full of opinions and tough little guys. So glad you gave her a chance to live.

You've already received great advice. Given the years that she endured neglect, smoke and poor diet, it's going to take some time before you see even further improvement. But she's definitely making progress, and it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with her.

Continue working on her diet, and try to give her multiple showers per week. Also, I'd remove the peanuts from her diet. Peanuts are not all that bad in and of themselves (other than being a bit fatty, but they're fine for treats), but they can be prone to the aspergillus mold which can grow on them depending on their storage environment. This mold produces a natural toxin known as aflatoxin which can lead to a particularly stubborn and dangerous respiratory disease called aspergillosis.

I can't give any better advice, other than that she looks much improved, and things take time. I agree with SB about the peanuts ... but I think it's OK to give her a spoon with some peanut butter on it now and then. It's hilarious to watch them hold the spoon and lick it.

As for liver ... Birdman666 and others have posted here about something called Aloe Detox, which you put in the water. I've read several accounts from people who said this stuff brought their birds back from the brink of death. If I had a bird with liver issues I wouldn't hesitate to try it. I wish I'd known about it when we were treating our amazon with antibiotics that seemed to be harming his liver, but I didn't find this place in time.

Thank you Everyone! It's good to hear that you all see his thinness as well. My groomer said that's normal she's so tiny. But to me she looks skinny still. It's nice to know it takes time to fix and I'm not doing something horribly wrong. I just worry. She's still singing like crazy ave acts normal just looks...raggity lol. I'm not a huge Amazon person. As awesome as they are their general personality made them a bottom candidate for my home. But i figured we would try with her. And we do love her

@Kiwibird.... no. She doesn't fly. She's like a stone If she goes down though she is not clipped. Occasionally she'll flap around but mostly she's a perch potato when she's not pulling a Circ De Sole in her cage lol. Loves hanging upside down!

@Anansi...I pulled peanuts from her diet except for cases where I need to her stay where she is. They are her kryptonite lol. She was sitting on something she wasn't familiar with and I didn't want her falling... granted I was a foot away. My vet recommend since nuts were her main diet, while removing nuts in full was probably not going to work, peanuts had to be switched with healthier nuts. Pecans, walnut, almonds. So she gets a seed mix, with some fresh cracked nuts I get from a bird safe nut place, and her Prime Supplemint. And I try the grains and veg daily. I'm always on the hunt for new stuff fore get to try. Peanuts are my bribery tool lol.

@Kentuckienne.... I've never heard of the Aloe Detox!! I would most definitely look that up ave maybe give it a try!! Thank you!

It was great reading about this success story.
As a non-Amazonian footnote, I would add that the Rb as always been thin. Every avian vet I've had has said so. They've tried lots of ways to beef him up a little, to no avail. Finally, my current vet decided he's just a skinny guy, and it may even have contributed to his longevity.
So if your darling stays a bit thin but continues to improve over all, maybe try not to worry.
Thanks for sharing this story!

She does look skinny but some birds are just built looking skinny still. The shelter has a Greenwing that you would swear is starving but he eats everything and is healthy just looks bad.

Is the YN Kelly? Lol. Kelly was pretty dull and fat when he came in but he had no liver issues. Your real fight will probably be the liver issues honestly since it won’t be helpful for bright feathers. It can take a long time to molt out all the dull feathers too. Did she get put on a special diet or it wasn’t bad enough? Using the detox is great. The same place I get Kelly’s med from has a liver issue one that the shelter puts in the applesauce for one of the lorys. The shelter also used an eye specialist for some of their birds. I can see if I can find the info on the specialist for you if you would want.

riddick07 said:

She does look skinny but some birds are just built looking skinny still. The shelter has a Greenwing that you would swear is starving but he eats everything and is healthy just looks bad.

Is the YN Kelly? Lol. Kelly was pretty dull and fat when he came in but he had no liver issues. Your real fight will probably be the liver issues honestly since it won’t be helpful for bright feathers. It can take a long time to molt out all the dull feathers too. Did she get put on a special diet or it wasn’t bad enough? Using the detox is great. The same place I get Kelly’s med from has a liver issue one that the shelter puts in the applesauce for one of the lorys. The shelter also used an eye specialist for some of their birds. I can see if I can find the info on the specialist for you if you would want.

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I think Ms Gail said it very well..just like us humans..some people can pig out until their eyes pop and not gain a pound,where others just have to LOOK at a cookie or donut and have to open the belt a notch or two


Jim