Jealous Amazon parrot

moon1964

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Jun 8, 2018
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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
Hello

My name is Susan Moon and I have a very ongoing problem with my husbands amazon named Blue.

Not sure if I will ever be able to rehabilitate him to stop attacking me out of jealously.

My situation is We acquired Blue about 15 yrs ago and He was a great parrot. Loved us both. Could handle him and play with (him?). Then We got another amazon about 7yrs . This time a female named Angel. She bonded with me instantly and for a long time things were fine. about 3 months went by and we put them into the same cage together all was well. They bonded to each other

Then one day thought Blue wanted a kiss so leaned forward and (CRUNCH) got both lips. So knee jerk reaction i smacked him and he fell to the floor. (bad thing to do i know)

ever sense then he? (blue) has been attacking me. Bites me whenever he get close enough.

Ok so my question is will i ever be able to stop the behavior? Its been going on for a LONG time. Thinking I might have to give him up to someone else. But don't want to separate Angel for blue.

any help would be appropriated.

Susan:
 

SailBoat

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Can you, YES! It will require both time and a major effort on your part! The process requires that you Start as if this is Day one, rebuilding trust and a connection base around that trust. Your working model is: Only good things happen went you are around.

There is no question that several real No-No's occurred over the years and as a family, you really need to start-over as well. Placing two Amazons together can work 'sometimes.' But, now they have a bond and the male (?) has a bond with your husband and I am guess that the female is kind of Okay with you? So that places you at the bottom of the Pecking Order in your home.

1. DNA confirm what the sex is of both Amazons.
2. Confirm what their overall health is by getting a detailed well-bird exam by an Avian Vet.
3. Start the process of physically separating them into their own cages, yes they can be next to each other. FYI: If they are a Bonded Sexual Pair, by having them together, you force physical protection emotions and unwanted breeding and all the many issues that can bring up.
4. Restart the bonding and trust building process from step one. Since you are the low one on the Pecking order, you get to provide all the good stuff.

Lots of work ahead of you. But to be honest, you got yourself here, one day at a time and that is how you will work back out of here.

Please read the two Threads at the Top of the Amazon Forum, highlighted in light blue. Start first with the Understanding Amazons Body Language by sitting next the the cage and reading softly 'out-loud' that Thread several times a day for several weeks until you understand the signs your Amazon(s) are providing you as if it was your first language. The other Thread is huge and contains lots of information on Loving and Living with Amazons.

One Step at a time and you will get there.

More Questions, ask away!
 
Last edited:

wrench13

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Please don't re-home, as this only makes things worse for the parrot, as he will not understand why he lost his family. Sailboats is our resident Amazon expert and he has given your great advice. 15 years is a long time to just give away. One day at a time, and be prepared to take 2 steps forward and one step back.

The ParrotForums is here for you to give support and answer questions.
 
OP
moon1964

moon1964

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Jun 8, 2018
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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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The Angel is bonded to me and Blue to husband or Blue used to be. Hubby doesn't spend time with him anymore which is why I mentioned the rehousing him. They have been in the same cage now for years and they do try to breed. I'm sure that's another no-no I could try to separate them but don't want either on to get depressed.
Need all the help I can get.
Susan
 

SailBoat

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What are you going to do if they start laying and hatching eggs?

Why has your hubby stopped interacting with Blue?
 

itzjbean

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Sorry to hear you are in this situation. I can't imagine being attacked at every instance and just generally not trusted by a bird you used to have a closer bond with.
I want to believe that you can still earn Blue's trust, but you need to ask yourself, are you willing to work on this with him and commit to him now on and forever?

When a bird gets smacked, hit, abused, whatever you want to call it (I know you did not abuse him, I would have done the same thing if I had my lips bitten) well, they remember. Being an Amazon, such an intelligent bird, they are less prone to forgive than say a cockatiel would be.

While the trust between you may be shattered, it is up to you to decide if you want to commit to re-gaining his trust. This will require daily interaction and work to make every single interaction with Blue a positive one. Finding a treat he enjoys, and spending time with him every single day, talking to him softly, basically beginning from square one on regaining his trust, just like with a new bird, building that bond until he no longer attacks you.

I will not judge you either way on what you decide, as I (and the members writing replies) aren't living with a bird that hates them and attacks at every chance he gets, you are. I have no idea what it's like to come home to that, maybe some rehabilitators here do, but you won't find judgment from me.
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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Blue has been getting more aggressive and hubby doesn't want get bit. Blue Boeing want hubby to pick him up anymore
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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Had a nest box for them and she did lay a couple is eggs but she laid them from the top perch and they broke. That being said I didn't want that to happen anymore to I removed the box and put and put a large block of wood in its place for them to perch on and to chew up. Haven't seen anymore broken eggs since. They still mate though. Is that a bad thing?
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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I would love to regain his trust. But I don't want to be his chew toy anymore
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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Would it help things if I separate them
 

itzjbean

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He may be showing increased aggression now because the spring/summer is their mating season, and they will show more aggression to protect their mate/babies at this time. This is normal, and many owners deal with aggression during this time of year and manage it by providing less hours of daylight, take out box and any nesting materials (will only encourage the aggressive hormonal behaviors) and if you are letting them out of the cage, not as much play-time/head scratches. You should not under any circumstances be petting either of them below the head, under wings or along the back, as this will stimulate them to want to mate, and we send the wrong message if we do so.

Separating them could curb the behavior. Put them in cages size by size so they can still be close to each other.
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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Another question sorry. Which one get the new cage
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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Btw. I am very familiar with the hormones of Blue. Angel gets more lovey. She doesn't like me petting any where but her head
 

EllenD

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Oh you absolutely must separate them!!! Their continued hormonal, breeding behavior is making your situation with both of them much, much worse...actually, when you put them together that was the beginning of the end for their relationship with you...not that you knew that when you did it, I know that, but it's true...when two birds of the opposite sex bond closely with each other, their bonds with people typically deteriorate, which makes sense, after all, they'd rather bond with someone of their own kind. The first thing you need to do in order to start reforming your bonds with both of them is to separate them into their own, individual cages, which you can put next to each other. And only supervised, out of cage play time together, in short time periods.

In order for you to be able to start working with both of them and reforming your bonds with them (this must include your husband as well), they can no longer be a "breeding-pair" of birds, which is essentially what they have become. This is why you see birds for sale advertised at "Breeding-Pair, Not Pets!", because they are just that, not pets at all, but a bonded, breeding pair of birds that do not want to interact with people. So that's where you definitely need to start, and then go from there with both you and your husband spending one-on-one time alone with each bird, not with both birds together.

I'd actually bet that 50% of the reason that Blue is attacking you is because you smacked him, and the other 50% is because he's a hormonal male who is bonded to a female he's breeding with and not getting any interaction with either of you, so he's just decided that he'll simply stay bonded with the female bird and that he no longer needs humans...

Neither bird is going to become "depressed" as long as you and your husband are willing to totally commit to spending ample time with each individual bird every day. As they start to reform their bonds with the two of you, the idea is that their bond to each other will become less of a "couple" type of relationship, and more of a sibling type of relationship. That's the ideal outcome anyway. But the breeding has to stop, and they need to live separately...
 

GaleriaGila

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I'm so glad you're asking for help!
And I'm glad you're open-minded and listening.

Yes, I agree that you have a considerable list of to-do tasks. I'm no Amazon expert, but there are some here.

Please try to organize (in a step-wise way) a plan of action. We'll stick with you.

Also, please feel the care and passion we feel for your birds, and for you, too.
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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Going to separate them from now on. Wish I would of found this out along time ago. Been searching the web but wasn't in the right place. FYI. Wish I wouldn't of smack poor Blue.
 

EllenD

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Going to separate them from now on. Wish I would of found this out along time ago. Been searching the web but wasn't in the right place. FYI. Wish I wouldn't of smack poor Blue.


Let me tell you a quick story....

A friend of mine had an Umbrella Cockatoo named Marty, and she and Marty were very, very closely bonded, and Marty was a great U2, loved all people and was very friendly to everyone, never bit, stepped-up for everyone, was just a great bird, very much like her child. She started dating a guy who was also extremely nice, I liked him a lot, he was kind to her and they were really getting along well, and had been dating for about 3 months. The only problem was that Marty was extremely jealous of him, and he was the only person in the world that Marty had ever bitten. Marty had to be put in his cage when he came over to her apartment, and it killed him because he tried and tried with Marty, but it just wasn't happening, Marty wanted him gone. The very first time he stayed overnight at her apartment, Marty had to be put in his cage, which never happened. The next morning she got up early to let him out and put him on the play-stand he had. Well her boyfriend got up and went downstairs to get coffee while she was taking a shower. Marty walked across the room and approached him next to the kitchen counter, and he started talking to Marty, thinking that he was trying to finally be nice to him...Marty then jumped up onto the counter and lunged at his face, attaching to his nose...he said that he started pulling on Marty but couldn't get him off, and when he started pulling on him Marty then bit down even harder, blood gushing everywhere, and he said he lost control of what he was doing, he just instinctively reached up, grabbed Marty with both hands, and basically slammed him into the counter head-first, then Marty fell off of the counter onto the floor...he died pretty much instantly.

My friend never got over losing Marty, and to this day she has not ever had any other pets at all. But she married that man, and is still married to him now after 9 years. It took him years to even be able to come back over to my house because he couldn't even look at a Budgie without bursting into tears. But my friend knew that he would have never killed Marty purposely, or even hurt him at all. It was an instinctual reaction to Marty literally biting through his nose, which by the way is permanently scarred (tons of stitches and a plastic surgery later)...

So you can't beat yourself up about hitting Blue, you didn't even realize you did it until after it was already done. That's a natural reaction to pain, you automatically try to remove it. As I said, that's actually not the main reason that Blue has been acting that way...it was the initial reason, but he would have eventually gotten over that, had he not become a part of a bonded breeding-pair of Amazons. Bird's hormones and their drive to mate/breed is extremely strong, and once they have a breeding mate that's it, they don't need people anymore...there are rare exceptions, but that's the usual...
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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How long will hormonal aggression last once they are separated. Are they to covered separately or can the cover cover both cages so they can see each other (Does that make sense)?.
 

itzjbean

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Going to separate them from now on. Wish I would of found this out along time ago. Been searching the web but wasn't in the right place. FYI. Wish I wouldn't of smack poor Blue.


Let me tell you a quick story....

A friend of mine had an Umbrella Cockatoo named Marty, and she and Marty were very, very closely bonded, and Marty was a great U2, loved all people and was very friendly to everyone, never bit, stepped-up for everyone, was just a great bird, very much like her child. She started dating a guy who was also extremely nice, I liked him a lot, he was kind to her and they were really getting along well, and had been dating for about 3 months. The only problem was that Marty was extremely jealous of him, and he was the only person in the world that Marty had ever bitten. Marty had to be put in his cage when he came over to her apartment, and it killed him because he tried and tried with Marty, but it just wasn't happening, Marty wanted him gone. The very first time he stayed overnight at her apartment, Marty had to be put in his cage, which never happened. The next morning she got up early to let him out and put him on the play-stand he had. Well her boyfriend got up and went downstairs to get coffee while she was taking a shower. Marty walked across the room and approached him next to the kitchen counter, and he started talking to Marty, thinking that he was trying to finally be nice to him...Marty then jumped up onto the counter and lunged at his face, attaching to his nose...he said that he started pulling on Marty but couldn't get him off, and when he started pulling on him Marty then bit down even harder, blood gushing everywhere, and he said he lost control of what he was doing, he just instinctively reached up, grabbed Marty with both hands, and basically slammed him into the counter head-first, then Marty fell off of the counter onto the floor...he died pretty much instantly.

My friend never got over losing Marty, and to this day she has not ever had any other pets at all. But she married that man, and is still married to him now after 9 years. It took him years to even be able to come back over to my house because he couldn't even look at a Budgie without bursting into tears. But my friend knew that he would have never killed Marty purposely, or even hurt him at all. It was an instinctual reaction to Marty literally biting through his nose, which by the way is permanently scarred (tons of stitches and a plastic surgery later)...

So you can't beat yourself up about hitting Blue, you didn't even realize you did it until after it was already done. That's a natural reaction to pain, you automatically try to remove it. As I said, that's actually not the main reason that Blue has been acting that way...it was the initial reason, but he would have eventually gotten over that, had he not become a part of a bonded breeding-pair of Amazons. Bird's hormones and their drive to mate/breed is extremely strong, and once they have a breeding mate that's it, they don't need people anymore...there are rare exceptions, but that's the usual...

That is such a sad story....wow....
 
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moon1964

moon1964

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double yellow-head amazon...Angel
blue-front amazon...Blue
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Hubby won't help so it all up to me. Not sure if you saw my other questions so I'll ask again. Should I cover both cages with the same cover or should they have separate covers?. And does anyone know if when I get them new cages will the hormonal and aggressive-protective of cage and other bird will last?. Not sure if that makes sense.
 

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