Amy and his meds..

AmyMyBlueFront · Jul 5, 2018

...after much trial and error (and a couple bloody fingers

) I think I found a remedy!
Last night it was a tiny piece of whole wheat bread dipped in honey,then injected with his meds. Amy scarfed that bread right down! Didn't even try to shred it

Keeping my fingers crossed for tonight

Jim

LordTriggs · Jul 5, 2018

haha another night another solution! Amy just keeping you on your toes!

Tami2 · Jul 5, 2018

Hey Jim, I don’t want to be Debbie Downer, but are you sure Raw Honey is okay for Parrots? Honey is an Absolute No No for babies as it causes Infant botulism.
I once took care of a 6 month old baby in the ICU, someone dipped his pacifier in honey. He was a normal healthy baby and now is severely neurologically impaired.

AmyMyBlueFront · Jul 5, 2018

Tami2 said:
Hey Jim, I don’t want to be Debbie Downer, but are you sure Raw Honey is okay for Parrots? Honey is an Absolute No No for babies as it causes Infant botulism.
I once took care of a 6 month old baby in the ICU, someone dipped his pacifier in honey. He was a normal healthy baby and now is severely neurologically impaired.

Tami..I've read people put honey in their birdy bread and muffins

I've used it in Amy/Beebs muffins too! Now you have me worried!

Jim

GaleriaGila · Jul 5, 2018

Wow!
I am hearing about this for the first time, but a quick Google of reputable sites shows me it is a huge concern for babies, and MAYBE for most birds, also! I have never fed raw honey, but until I hear from knowledgeable members here to the contrary, I certainly won't.
Thanks, Tami.

EllenD · Jul 5, 2018

I would not ever feed "raw" honey, meaning that the honey is "unpasteurized", to a bird, as it can be fatal for 2 different reasons:

#1.) Raw/Unpasteurized Honey is full of different microbes (mostly bacteria), one of them being Botulinum, among others, which can obviously make the birds sick...

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY:

#2.) Raw Honey contains sugar-molecule "chains" that are very "long" (I'm not going-into the Organic Chemistry of this, lol) and that birds cannot properly digest. The act of Pasteurization heats the Raw Honey up to a temperature that breaks these long chains of sugar molecules into much shorter "chains" (again, not gonna do it) which are easily digestible by birds...So bottom-line is that birds do not possess the natural digestive enzymes to break-down and digest Raw or Unpasteurized Honey, but they can properly digest Honey that has been Pasteurized.

Tami2 · Jul 5, 2018

AmyMyBlueFront said:
Tami2 said:

Hey Jim, I don’t want to be Debbie Downer, but are you sure Raw Honey is okay for Parrots? Honey is an Absolute No No for babies as it causes Infant botulism.
I once took care of a 6 month old baby in the ICU, someone dipped his pacifier in honey. He was a normal healthy baby and now is severely neurologically impaired.

Click to expand...

Tami..I've read people put honey in their birdy bread and muffins
I've used it in Amy/Beebs muffins too! Now you have me worried!

Jim

I’m sorry to worry you. My intention was to inform you. Remember putting honey in the muffins you are cooking it.
Raw honey is a different story. It may be fine, but I know that there’s many foods they can’t have. I would think Raw Honey would be one of them.
But I could be wrong. . . I hope I am, given the fact that you’ve already used it.

TiredOldMan · Jul 5, 2018

EllenD said:
I would not ever feed "raw" honey, meaning that the honey is "unpasteurized", to a bird, as it can be fatal for 2 different reasons:

#1.) Raw/Unpasteurized Honey is full of different microbes (mostly bacteria), one of them being Botulinum, among others, which can obviously make the birds sick...

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY:

#2.) Raw Honey contains sugar-molecule "chains" that are very "long" (I'm not going-into the Organic Chemistry of this, lol) and that birds cannot properly digest. The act of Pasteurization heats the Raw Honey up to a temperature that breaks these long chains of sugar molecules into much shorter "chains" (again, not gonna do it) which are easily digestible by birds...So bottom-line is that birds do not possess the natural digestive enzymes to break-down and digest Raw or Unpasteurized Honey, but they can properly digest Honey that has been Pasteurized.

Ellen,
Thank you very much. I have fed honey but always pasteurized. Not from choice just because that's what I had on hand. I will make sure in the future that it continues to be pasteurized.

Tami2 · Jul 5, 2018

GaleriaGila said:
Wow!
I am hearing about this for the first time, but a quick Google of reputable sites shows me it is a huge concern for babies, and MAYBE for most birds, also! I have never fed raw honey, but until I hear from knowledgeable members here to the contrary, I certainly won't.
Thanks, Tami.

You’re welcome Gail. I’m w/ you on hearing from the more knowledgeable parronts on the form. I just know about the babies. But, knowing how sensitive our birds are, I wouldn’t be surprised if Raw Honey is a No No as well.
Let’s hope for Amy’s sake I’m wrong.

ChristaNL · Jul 7, 2018

Oefffff THANK YOU for this one.

I always have my honey 'as natural as you can get it' (buy it from the beekeepers) especially -> all the interesting extra things in there (otherwise why not use plain boring suger at a fraction of the cost) and was about to see if my macaw would like some...
(the meds still go down pretty smooth with peanutbuter, but I am no fan of stuffing my parrots with fatty stuf. I know a macaw can handle/need a lot more fat in the diet then the african greys - still adjusting to that one and feeling somewhat insecure about the amounts needed.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey
proves you absolutely right.

(lots of links)
but these are the ones I was raised on:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609166/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3042689/
I always heard about the antibacterial properties etc. of honey - so I am quite shocked to learn it could also be a source for another set of 'problem bacteria'.
(folkremedy: We used to use it on burns and other badhealing, infected wounds / in humans/ always works like a charm.)

I hope Amy is still scarfing/ munching happily?

EllenD · Jul 7, 2018

Again, Raw/Unpasteurized Honey is not at all good for birds for 2 different reasons...It's full of microbes (bacteria) because it hasn't been heated up, and MORE IMPORTANTLY than the bacteria is the fact that without being heated during the Pasteurization process, the chains of sugar molecules stay in their original form, which cannot be digested by birds at all, and this causes illness and death. That's the main reason birds cannot eat any Raw or Unpasteurized Honey.

Regular old honey, or honey that has been Pasteurized is find for birds, less the amount of sugar they're taking-in.

****Something that I failed to mention in my above post is that depending on what you are doing with the Raw Honey, it may be MADE OKAY...Meaning if you are putting Raw Honey in a baked-good that is going to be heated up over 400 degrees, then this will change the long chains of sugar molecules into the shorter chains that they can digest, and it will also kill-off the bacteria that is left from the hive...So if you bake it into Birdie-Bread, it may be totally fine for your bird...But it's better to just use/give them regular old Pasteurized honey.

Scott · Jul 7, 2018

Jim, seems you've found at least a temporary delivery system for Amy's meds!
Perhaps a drop of other sweetener may work, such as apple juice or a drop of pancake syrup? (the good stuff, pure maple!)

As for raw honey, I've heard it was potentially harmful, thanks to those who shared stories and facts!

Anita1250 · Jul 9, 2018

Why don't you put the meds in a small piece of Munchkin? Seems he already loves those, so it should be easy.

Anansi · Jul 9, 2018

Tami and Ellen, thank you both so much for that information! I always find it horrifying when a regular food turns out to be so potentially deadly when I had no idea. I've never fed honey period, but it's always been because I avoid the more sugary foods for them. So tragedy was only accidentally avoided. (I do believe any honey in the house has always been pasteurized anyway, but I certainly couldn't swear to it as I've never paid that much attention to it.) Whew, scary!

Was your honey pasteurized, Jim?

Funny you should mention using whole wheat bread as a medicine delivery device, as I was considering trying that with Jolly as an alternative to the oatmeal all the time.

Scott · Jul 9, 2018

Anansi said:
Tami and Ellen, thank you both so much for that information! I always find it horrifying when a regular food turns out to be so potentially deadly when I had no idea. I've never fed honey period, but it's always been because I avoid the more sugary foods for them. So tragedy was only accidentally avoided. (I do believe any honey in the house has always been pasteurized anyway, but I certainly couldn't swear to it as I've never paid that much attention to it.) Whew, scary!

Was your honey pasteurized, Jim?

Funny you should mention using whole wheat bread as a medicine delivery device, as I was considering trying that with Jolly as an alternative to the oatmeal all the time.

Whole wheat or other whole grain breads are excellent med delivery devices. I give my flock bits of a quality bread, lightly toasted, weekly. Quite dry, some birds dunk the bread into water momentarily to moisten. Medicines will nicely do the same trick!

AmyMyBlueFront · Jul 9, 2018

Anita1250 said:
Why don't you put the meds in a small piece of Munchkin? Seems he already loves those, so it should be easy.

That's an idea!

Thanks!

Jim

AmyMyBlueFront · Jul 9, 2018

Scott said:
Anansi said:

Tami and Ellen, thank you both so much for that information! I always find it horrifying when a regular food turns out to be so potentially deadly when I had no idea. I've never fed honey period, but it's always been because I avoid the more sugary foods for them. So tragedy was only accidentally avoided. (I do believe any honey in the house has always been pasteurized anyway, but I certainly couldn't swear to it as I've never paid that much attention to it.) Whew, scary!

Was your honey pasteurized, Jim?

Funny you should mention using whole wheat bread as a medicine delivery device, as I was considering trying that with Jolly as an alternative to the oatmeal all the time.

Click to expand...

Whole wheat or other whole grain breads are excellent med delivery devices. I give my flock bits of a quality bread, lightly toasted, weekly. Quite dry, some birds dunk the bread into water momentarily to moisten. Medicines will nicely do the same trick!

I've been using whole wheat bread also..He is wise to this now too!

Refusing to eat it now,even when I let him get :hungry"!

Jim

BirdNerdPHL · Oct 31, 2018

I inject both of my birds meds into a grape and they devour it. You can do blueberries or any small fruit really that is juicy. Popcorn gets antiseizure needs twice a day for the last six years. Occasionally she'll get bored and I'll put it in a treat type item. A plain piece of eggo soaks it up and she loves it. Not ideal but when you gotta get her to eat it you do what you can. My avian vet agreed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Joon · Nov 1, 2018

EllenD said:
Regular old honey, or honey that has been Pasteurized is find for birds, less the amount of sugar they're taking-in.

I keep bees. The pasteurization process used for honey wouldn't kill botulism spores, we don't get it hot enough for long enough to do that. Honey that is typically warmed to 65C for 30 minutes is "pasteurized" to kill botulism spores it would need to be heated to 121C for 3 minutes.

And I think the worry surrounding feeding honey to birds is because people have been known to feed it to hummingbirds which can give them thrush (candida) which is deadly for them. A vet tech suggested honey as a way to convince one of my birds to take their meds and I was surprised it was suggested. I'll ask my vet if she can find anything re parrots because now I'm curious.

@AmyMyBlueFront I have to give mine meds twice a day. I don't know what the medication base is, but it might make a difference. My vet uses caramelized methycellulose (it tastes a bit like chocolately coffee!) and I soak bits of banana bread or blueberry muffin with his medication. I also take away his food at night so it helps make it a bit easier to convince him to take his meds in the morning.

Brittany0208 · Nov 1, 2018

Awesome! Have you tried mixing his meds with baby food? I had to do this with Java when he was on meds.

Amy and his meds..

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Finally Salty comes clean !

Just a LOL..

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