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Old 07-11-2018, 04:17 PM
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Despondent

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Hello,

I am reaching out for advice. I have read many threads including the popular ones made by sailboat and Birdman666, very informational, thank you.

Right now I have a YHA 10yo male named Charlie I adopted. He wasn't let out of his cage because his family was terrified of him. It took time and many bites, even one through my bottom lip, but I was prepared for this and knew he would take work. Before I knew it we were best friends. Anywhere in the house I was Charlie was by my side. He was mistreated by men so he didn't take to my husband but with my husbands dedication he would "put up" with him in short doses. By doses I mean a few seconds then he was flying to his cage or to me but hardly would even bite my husband.
My husband always wanted a B&G so we found one that recently lost his mate in January and they were not taken out of their cage with human interaction. Just allowed out ON their cage and "shewed" back in with a towel. So we took in the 20yo male B&G Frank on 6/29/18. Also knowing he wasn't interacted with much and knowing if he needed anyone it would be now after losing his Clair.

Wellness check went good. Now the introduction two these two boys.

We had Charlie in our living room as always and had Frank in there too so they could be around us and each other. Charlie would fly onto Franks cage EYES PINNED overly excited. Not a good situation.
Frank is a little cage territorial so we tried to get Charlie of this huge cage, got bit pretty aggressively but got him off. decided they cant be allowed to hang out on top of their cages because Charlie flew to Franks each time.

So a few days later due to the size of Frankies cage we moved Frank to a larger room thinking Charlie may also want his space back in our living room, his territory back I guess was my thinking.
Bad choice, Frank would make a parrot call and Charlie would just yell and yell and yell. This was not going to work. Clearly.

We moved Charlies cage in the same room as Frankie. Let them have a day or two alone and get to know each other. It was going good and still is to this day.

Every night we have been working with them coming out of the cage in a different room than their cage room and put them on "T" stands, they each have their own so they can have their own space and watch TV, hang out with myself and my husband. NOPE.
Charlie is constantly flying to Franks stand and getting smack next to him leaving Frank on the edge of the stand. Frank the gentle giant he is, is patient for a few minutes, then Frank starts to scream, we remove Charlie.
That cycle continues. We have tried allowing Charlie to share Franks stand and giving him treat at the opposite end of Franks stand. Charlie comes and gets his treats and then side steps back to Franks side. After few minutes remove Charlie back to his own T stand, after a few minutes flies back to Franks. So on and so forth.

Charlie has become almost obsessed with Frank. He pays no attention to me, its like we never even had a connection. He bites (very aggressively) when I try to have him step up, put his veggies in his cage in the morning. He has attacked my face out of no where while being held by me that turned into a faint puffy black eye.
I'll say "NO!", I try covering him for short time outs.
Nothing changes

My husband has started handling him so that I don't get hurt. My husbands arms and hands look horrible but he just keeps trying to show Charlie "your bites don't phase me, and I am not giving up"
he is working so hard with him. He recently got my husband through the eye brow.

**Side note Charlie is deathly afraid of blankets, towels, hoodies and welding gloves, because that's what was always used to handle him in his past homes **

I kept to my routine with Charlie from the beginning of Franks coming. I fed him first, uncovered him first, talk to Charlie mostly and let my husband interact mostly with Frank.
He would shower with me everyday, but now he will just scream in the shower for Frank. My husband showers with Frank, Charlie is screaming.

I have lost Charlie forever, and I miss him. I literally miss him so much. He is a different bird.

Frank act like he likes Charlie and deals with him for so long on his own perch but then Frank also looks annoyed. Why wont Frank just show him who is boss so Charlie will get a hint to back off and snap out of it. They are never out together unsupervised and my husband says birds will be birds and Frank will have to show Charlie when "enough is enough, I want my space" but that makes me nervous too.

Try getting them out at separate time alone, they endlessly scream for each other. Or Frank is screaming to go back to his own cage. I don't know and I am wearing myself out trying to think of solutions or what Frank is thinking or what is Charlie thinking.

I want my Charlie back, my heart hurts.
And I cant even help my husband work with Charlie because I'm afraid of him. I have anxiety around both of them, and especially my once sweet, sweet boy.

I've lost my best friend and I never thought it would affect me like this. Its crazy.
I'm only on week two and I don't want to give up yet I don't know how to move forward. I have ruined everything. I'm hopeless and broken.

If you read all of this, thank you for listening
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Last edited by grahamland6753; 07-11-2018 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:33 PM
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Re: Despondent

Thank you for rescuing these birds.

I’m so sorry this has happened. I’ve read so much about what can happen if you bring in another bird, that I’ll most likely only have one.
I don’t have any answers as I’m fairly new to the parrot world myself.
I just wanted you to know that your post moved me and I’ll be following your story and the advice you receive from this knowledge group.

I hope you can resolve this situation & get your Sweetie back.
Best of luck and again, I’m so sorry.
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Last edited by Tami2; 07-11-2018 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:53 PM
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Re: Despondent

That means so much. Thank you!
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:09 PM
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Re: Despondent

I'm so sad to hear your story, I wish so much that I could offer some advice or suggestions. Maybe Charlie will get used to Frank and things will slowly move to a more 'normal' tone. I hope and pray it will get better. Please let us know how it goes.



Good luck!
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:12 PM
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Re: Despondent

Thank you for your energy and devotion.
Those authors you mentioned ARE awesome.
I betcha Mr. Sailboat will be along to give you some personalized advice soon!

Welcome!
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:16 PM
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Re: Despondent

That's what my husband keeps saying. "Its only been two weeks give it time" he is a glass half full type of guy.
Me well... in this situation, not so much.

Praying.

Thank you for taking time to read/reply.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:50 PM
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Re: Despondent

Oh dear...
that is so sad - but birds will be birds I guess ?

Probably the one thing you never wanted of even suspected was that the birds would go back into their birdworld and turn their backs on you: their flock and family so far.
That really, really must hurt deeply.

I have no solution - the sizedifference tells me that is it probably *not* a good idea to "let them battle it out" because Frank could easily make kebabs out of an amazon.
(And Charlie could also make some interesting holes in a fellowparrot instead of his humans).

All I've seen are youtubes where they trainend parrots not to attack each other, but these were birds who were still also interested in working with their trainer.
-> Put them om t-stands and reward when they settled down and ignored each other etc. etc. - the usual exposure/ desensitizing-training.

But with a beserking bird... you first would have to work to calm him down.
(and I have no clue how to do that apart from all the tips you've probably read up on already ...
/ apart from getting him really, really drunk -> and that is frowned upon as well as unhealthy <- sorry, my poor sense of humor, kicks in when I run out of usefull ideas)


I hope some of the amazon-experts can help you.


Hang in there- I think you guys are SO brave for keep on trying, through all the rejection and the bites.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:19 PM
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Re: Despondent

I'm sorry, but this...

Quote:
"your bites don't phase me, and I am not giving up"
should not be the way to approach a biting bird. This could potentially result in a more aggressive bird because you aren't *LISTENING* to him, so he learns he needs to bite harder and harder to try and get his point across, or he may simply give up... that is, he learns that he has no say in the final outcome of the situation. Quite a depressing thing, really...



You and your husband need to learn to work *WITH* them, rather than against them. That is, each interaction is a positive one for human and bird - not a negative one.

BRAINSTORMING: Biting Parrots

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Old 07-12-2018, 01:52 AM
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Re: Despondent

I don't know if this would help, but have you tried playing soft, slow music for them, individually? Especially, the Zon?

It probably sounds strange, but I have made my bedroom a very tranquil place. No TV, shutters closed. There are pics of castles and fairies on the walls.

I turn on my salt lamp for soft light, and play waterfall sounds with a mix of soft flute or soft Native American music, or soft instrumental from LOTR that I've found on YouTube.

It plays on a speaker, but the volume is low enough not to startle them. They were frightened of the salt lamp, initially, but got over it.

My two that get along, sometimes fall asleep right on my hand or shoulders.

Gonzo doesn't tolerate other birds, but when he comes into my bedroom, he initially calls out to the other two, then he relaxes and calms down.

When your Zon bites, do you turn your back to him immediately?

It sounds like you and your hubby are very devoted to your birds. Hopefully this is simply a transitional stage because of the new parrot.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:47 AM
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Re: Despondent

Quote: Originally Posted by grahamland6753 View Post
So we took in the 20yo male B&G Frank on 6/29/18. Also knowing he wasn't interacted with much and knowing if he needed anyone it would be now after losing his Clair.
It has been under 2 weeks, just be patient... It works, almost for sure.

Just work with them, dont handle Charlie if he bites. Dont let your husband to handle him either. Just let him be and get used to the new bird. Give him treats (if you can without getting bitten), speak to him, do what you always do just dont make him bite you or your husband.

I've seen this phase A LOT of times, new birds almost all drive your "old birds" to "bad behaviour"... Once again, take it easy, let them be as they want. It should get better in few weeks
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