My dilemma.

Someone else made a similar post titled Heart vs mind (I think).

Should I buy the RLA at the pet shop as a companion for Luna?
I have had Luna for almost a year now and I know she wants company of the feathered verity. Bingo is not suitable he would kill her and I think Luna knows this.
Whenever I show Luna videos of other Amazons she gets so excited and happy. She starts displaying her feathers (tail flared, wings partial spread, and whistling).
Luna is not depressed without a partner. She is very playful. She talks and whistles and imitates Bingo.

The RLA (tentative name of Maya).
I had a RLA named Pacho (female) that died back in September of last year. Even though Maya is the same type of bird she is quite a bit larger than my Pacho was. She is friendly with both my Son and myself. She regurgitates food for both of us. She allows both of us to scratch her on the neck/head. She also has the same quick reversal of mood, you can be scratching her neck and in an instant she will turn and try to chomp on you. I did learn how to anticipate this with my Pacho and expect I can become observant enough to catch the subtle clues to avoid the bite.
The background of Maya is as unknown as is the background of Luna. Someone found her in their backyard. They gave it to the pet shop. After checking around and waiting 3 months were unable to find the original owners. I find it ridicules that the pet shop wants to sell the bird at a price you would expect to buy a young bird of the same type ($1,200.00). Greedy so and so’s but they are the same people that sold me Bella for $2000.00 even though she had been abused and looked like He!l. And they are in the business to make money.

If the two birds (Luna & Maya) don’t get along (able to live happily in the same cage) I really don’t have the room for another large cage. I think the only way I would attempt this is if they would give me a week to try it out and bring her back (for a full refund) if it was unworkable.
I am fully aware that it’s not a good idea (in general) to buy a bird for the reasons of companionship of another bird but I think I have coverd the reasoning for this and why I can’t get it out of my mind.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Texsize

Yes i would like to know as weell. My bird is and only child. I wonder if he would like a friend. He lives watching Amazons on youtube

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

Hi
What a decision! I had two GCC, one passed leaving my remaining girl very depressed. I spent time thinking about a second bird. I didn't want Ta-dah to live without a friend for the remaining 15 years of her life. I myself had always wanted a quaker. But I already had a second large cage from NY parrot fostering days. But I planned on them never living together, unless they really wanted to as Ta-dahs cage is five feet by four feet by three feet, plenty big for two. I made sure Quakers could possibly be friends with her, both species allow preen, live in large flocks. And knowing she was DNA female, chose DNA male quaker, so as best chance they would be buddies. They adore each other, but this took time. I don't think a second parrot friend is a good idea unless you can have two cages. Even if they eventually were bonded enough for one, during your introductions you are going to want to have separate cages.....even if they lived happily in one cage, there could come a time when they wouldn't want to it started fighting...

If possible...let the birds take a look at each other and let them decide...
2 ladies are usually the most difficult to combine.
If it is love at first sight- you could give it a go

buttttttt:
Hmmm, if you really, really have no room for another cage... do not do it

The greys here get along fine about 3/4 of the year, butttttt I am lucky there is a way to make 2 cages out of the one large cage they normally share. They are most definitely not a breeding pair (both are nestrobbed and handfed and do not recognize a fellow parrot as a partner/ they 'want to have sex with humans, doh') so once the hormones kick in ... no more peacefull roommates and they demand their own space.

ChristaNL said:

If possible...let the birds take a look at each other and let them decide...
2 ladies are usually the most difficult to combine.
If it is love at first sight- you could give it a go

buttttttt:
Hmmm, if you really, really have no room for another cage... do not do it

The greys here get along fine about 3/4 of the year, butttttt I am lucky there is a way to make 2 cages out of the one large cage they normally share. They are most definitely not a breeding pair (both are nestrobbed and handfed and do not recognize a fellow parrot as a partner/ they 'want to have sex with humans, doh') so once the hormones kick in ... no more peacefull roommates and they demand their own space.

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I did try letting Luna see Maya.
I took Luna to the pet shop is a small cage and set them close to each other.

Luna was much to nervous about her surroundings and only focused on My Son and I. Maybe I should record a video of Maya and then take it home for her to watch.

When thinking about them together I just remember Patch & Plumas in the same cage. They were opposite sex and it was a very rare thing that they would need to be separated.
When it was needed I would give on or the other a little "time-out" . Normally it would be 10/15 min. in the tree stand. they were so bonded to each other that when I put them back together they were so happy to be together I think they forgot what the were fighting about.

texsize said:

I just remember Patch & Plumas in the same cage. They were opposite sex and it was a very rare thing that they would need to be separated.
When it was needed I would give on or the other a little "time-out" . Normally it would be 10/15 min. in the tree stand. they were so bonded to each other that when I put them back together they were so happy to be together I think they forgot what the were fighting about.

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That is *so* cute.
Mine are 'insane in the membrane' when it comes to species recognition (they know themselves in the mirror, but not the other bird as their own species... Japie thinks of himself more as human first and amazon second.)

It is a pitty they won't let you "try before you buy" - but then you would have the quarantaine-issues as well.

If they made *no* contact at all due to the hectic of the shop... maybe you and your bird could visit when they close for the day and just hang around for a bit while the shoppeople do the after-workday-cleanup?
(You are a good customer, they could play nice etc. .)

Maya would be in awesome hands if you decided on getting her. This topic has been discussed many times before. "a buddy for my buddy" Another mouth to feed..another vet bill..housing..etc etc. and of course it comes down to is this what "you" want..not just Luna.
We know how you feel about birdies in general,Wes,and especially Amazons
If you can make some sort of agreement with the pet shop,then why not give it a try?




Jim

You should expect them to hate each other and be totally surprised if they don't. If you don't have room for a second cage, how are you going to quarantine her? In addition, are you ready for twice everything if they don't get along? Costs, time, etc. Multiple birds works for some and not others.

You also have to consider other current and potential family members. It's never and shouldn't be an easy decision.

Just voted No. I feel horrible because I don't want to deflate you, but the thing that made my decision was that you don't have space for the other cage. It's just far too much for this to be a successful decision ONLY if they can share a cage. I don't think that's a fair expectation on either of them.

Even a week trial isn't really going to tell you anything. I mean really they should be nowhere near each other for the first 30 days as a quarantine measure. Even without quarantine the first few weeks might be the honeymoon period and Maya's true nature probably won't be clear.

I'm a total party proper and hate myself for it...

Jottlebot said:

Just voted No. I feel horrible because I don't want to deflate you, but the thing that made my decision was that you don't have space for the other cage. It's just far too much for this to be a successful decision ONLY if they can share a cage. I don't think that's a fair expectation on either of them.

Even a week trial isn't really going to tell you anything. I mean really they should be nowhere near each other for the first 30 days as a quarantine measure. Even without quarantine the first few weeks might be the honeymoon period and Maya's true nature probably won't be clear.

I'm a total party proper and hate myself for it...

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I asked for opinions so don’t feel bad about voicing your’s.
I am very much on the fence about it . The fact that I don’t have room for another cage is a major factor

There is only one answer that I can give you that is responsible, based on every single case of someone doing what you are considering doing: NEVER buy another bird for one of your current birds!!! EVER!

You already know this Text, and I know you're just caught in the middle of what you want, what you want for your bird, but also what you know could happen if you do buy that RLA. The only sound, responsible, definite advice that I would ever given anyone in this situation, whether they are experienced with birds like you or not, is that you should NEVER buy any bird unless YOU WANT another bird for yourself, as a pet and companion for yourself, and you are prepared to have to be this new bird's SOLE COMPANION and be ready to have to keep them totally separated from your current birds.

You already know this, but you have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not Luna will bond with, or even get along at all with this new bird, or vice versa. They may absolutely love each other, bond closely with each other, and want to spend every waking moment together...They also might just simply tolerate each other, maybe be "friends" sort of and not be aggressive towards each other, but not bond with each other and not really care about each other...They might not like each other at all and not want to spend any time together at all, and not be able to be in the same room together unsupervised...They might be totally indifferent with each other and totally ignore each other...And then of course, they might hate each other with such an aggressive passion that you can't even let them be in the same room together at any time at all, supervised or not, as one will end up being injured or worse...

And you have absolutely no way at all to figure out which one of these relationships they are going to have...If I recall you did already try to bring Luna into the pet shop to shortly "meet" this RLA, and it didn't go well...Now I wouldn't really base anything on that, because it's not anything like the situation they would be in at home with you, but it is an indication that something might not be quite right...Really though, you know how this goes, you can't really have a clue what is going to happen until you get both birds together in your house, with you present, and in Luna's house and environment, with Luna's person...The possibility of territoriality and jealousy on Luna's part is there, but more-so the possibility of the RLA wanting you all for himself, or any other hundreds of possibilities. We can't even mention all of the possibilities that could happen.

***What I can tell you for certain, 100% certain, without a doubt, is that Luna's relationship with any new bird that you bring into your home and your family is not ever going to be exactly the same as the relationship she had with Pacho, it may not even be close, and that relationship is 50% based on Luna's reaction and feelings, and 50% based on the new bird's feelings and reactions. And unfortunately you can't even begin to guess how it's going to go until the specific new bird is inside your house with his cage and his "stuff", and until Luna see's you interacting with the new bird, and vice versa.

***So, all of that being said, the best advice that anyone is going to be able to give you (if they are being 100% honest and not trying to act like they know how 2 birds in this situation are going to react to each other, as it's impossible for anyone to know) is that you should ONLY bring home another bird to add to your family if YOU WANT another bird, and are prepared to have to keep the new bird separated from all of your current birds all the time, including Luna. If you truly, 100% want to bring this RLA into your home and family and be his "person" like you are to Luna, then by all means, go for it! This bird has been at that pet store for quite a while now, he needs and deserves a responsible, experienced, loving home with a person who is going to provide him with love and attention and take care of him properly. And this RLA couldn't go to a better home than with you, you obviously have to care about this bird, you've been visiting him at this pet shop since the day he was brought in. So if it's simply that YOU was to bring this bird into your family and your life, and you are totally fine with the possibility of having to keep him completely separate from your other birds at all times (or any of the other hundreds of possibilities that may end-up being how it has to be), and YOU want this bird for YOURSELF and not strictly for any other reason, than absolutely, go get the bird!

***However, if the situation truly is that you are simply looking for a new companion for Luna because you are convinced that she really misses her relationship with Pacho, and you are only considering doing this to help Luna and make Luna happy, then NO, you should not bring the RLA home, as you have no way at all of knowing if they are even going to be able to be out together at all, let alone that they'll bond closely and be companions. Every time you've written a post about doing this, you've always mentioned that you "want to bring home a new companion for Luna", and then you talk about how Luna lights-up when she hears the sounds of other Amazons on YouTube, and you remember how much she loved Pacho, etc. So it really has sounded like you want to bring home this RLA strictly "for Luna", and there isn't anyone that can tell you that it's going to end-up the way you want it to. So if you are considering doing this truly for Luna, then no, please don't go and get this RLA, because chances are that their relationship isn't going to be anything like the one she had with Pacho, and it's quite possible that they will have little to no relationship at all...

Only you know how you truly feel about bringing home this RLA, and only you know whether or not you have fallen in-love with this bird and truly want to bring him home to be YOUR COMPANION...But honestly, to me it's sounded very much like you really love Luna dearly, and you simply want to do anything and everything you can to make her happy and healthy, and you are remembering the relationship she and Pacho had and you want her to have that again, because you love her. And while that's totally understandable and commendable (we've all been here), this isn't the way to go about making Luna happy. Even you admitted that Luna isn't "unhappy", and that Luna's happiness doesn't rely upon having another Amazon to bond closely with and have as her constant companion. It seems that Luna is very closely bonded to you, and I think she's very content with things the way they are. She's not plucking, she's not lethargic or morose, and she has a great life and lots of love from you. So you need to really think about how much Luna actually wants/needs a new Amazon companion, and how much of this is simply you remembering the relationship that she and Pacho had, and it's you simply wanting to "recreate" that relationship; if this is actually the case, then I'm pretty sure that you know that it's impossible to recreate that relationship that they had, and I also am pretty sure that you know that there are no guarantees about how the two birds are going to get along, if at all.

***As far as what Christa mentioned about seeing whether the pet shop owner would allow you to bring the RLA home for a week to see how he and Luna get along inside of your home and with you around them both and within your normal, daily routines....This is a really good idea, but there are a couple of issues with doing this. The first issue that comes to mind is that this would require you to ignore the "quarantine" period completely. I'm sure that the RLA is healthy in-general, but the fact of the matter is that he has been living inside of a pet shop with other live birds and other species of live animals, reptiles, rodents, etc., and even more worrisome are the hundreds of people that the RLA has been interacting with and been in close proximity to this entire time he's been in the pet shop...So ignoring any type of quarantine and just putting the RLA inside of your house and together in the same room and in close-contact with Luna is a very scary thing. And if you were to just bring the RLA home and not have him be out in the same room with Luna and having the two birds spend time together, then the whole point of bringing him into your home is thrown out.

The second issue with bringing the RLA into your home is that it's going to be very short-term I would imagine, maybe what, a week at most? So I'm not so sure that this would be a long enough time period for the RLA to fully settle-in and start behaving the way that he will normally behave after he has lost his anxiety of coming to a new home...Plus, it's not going to be a long enough time period for the bird to bond closely with you, and to see the effect that this is going to have on Luna and her behavior towards the RLA. So this combined with the lack of quarantine makes bringing the RLA home for a week maybe not such a great idea...Honestly the total lack of quarantine is what scares me the most about doing this...

Thank you all for you input and response.

I am going with the majority on this and not bring home the RLA
.

#1 I would be happy to bring her home for myself alone but not having room for a proper cage for her would be unfair to her.


#2 I have the feeling she will not get along with Luna. Luna is not a people bird but a bird bird. The RLA IS a people bird based on her reaction to us when visiting her at the pet shop.


Maybe the right bird will come along someday.

Maybe Luna will bond with one of us, it's still in the early days of our relationship. She is not unfriendly or in destress for lack of company.

I think you are making a great decision in not getting her.

It comes down to plain and simply, as much as you want them to be best friends and share a cage, it's just not logical thinking. If you don't have the room for them to be in separate cages, then it's an obvious NO. If they were to not get along (which is very likely), then you'd end up with two dead birds. Safety should be top priority.

Wait until you have more space to get another bird

You all helped me make the right decision.

It's not easy when you are being pulled two ways.

You helped me see things clearly without letting my emotions get the better of me.

I didn't even realize that this decision was dependent upon having to house both birds together in the same cage...That's a definite NOOOOOO! There are too many reasons for me to list right now as to why that is a terrible situation and not at all the right thing to do, even though your intentions are good. And I know that you know that just planning on housing Luna and this new RLA in the same cage from the start is not at all feasible, nor safe. That could end in tragedy very quickly, for one or both birds, and of course for you. And if the other option is to bring the RLA home and have to house him in a tiny little cage that is not of adequate size for him, then you can't do that either; as you said, it's not fair to the RLA, and would most likely end-up causing behavioral and health issues for the RLA. And housing the two birds together will no-doubt cause themY both psychological, behavioral, and health issues...especially Luna.

You have to keep in-mind that Luna's cage is her "safe place"; and as Luna is still not fully bonded to any of the people in the house yet, then I'd imagine that her "area" or her "safe space", her "territory" is something that makes her feel most comfortable, secure, safe, etc. So you can't just expect her to accept another bird suddenly living inside of her "territory". Forgetting the risk of physical danger to each bird that this could immediately pose, it is also very likely to cause Luna some psychological and/or behavioral issues in the long-run, which possibly include feather-destructive and self-mutilation behaviors...

The other thing you need to think about is that you're still working on bonding with Luna apparently, as you said, Luna is not a "people" bird, but that isn't necessarily a permanent situation. Luna may very likely start bonding closely with one of you at any time, as this can be effected and dictated by everything from simply time to hormones to age. And I'm pretty certain that you love Luna very much and would love for her to form a close bond with you...And bringing home another parrot right now, especially a parrot that seems to already be easily bonding to you guys from just your visits to the pet shop to see him, well, this might set your relationship with Luna so far back that you really might lose any chance you have for her to bond closely with you. It's amazing how even a bird in your family that seems "standoffish" or distant can become extremely jealous the second that they think their "people" are bonding with another bird. I'd just keep working on your relationship with Luna for now, and once you see how it is going to work-out, then you can make a more-informed decision about bringing home another bird. But yeah, you have to be able to house any new bird that you bring home in it's own, adequately sized "safe place".

EllenD said:

***As far as what Christa mentioned about seeing whether the pet shop owner would allow you to bring the RLA home for a week to see how he and Luna get along inside of your home and with you around them both and within your normal, daily routines....This is a really good idea, but there are a couple of issues with doing this. The first issue that comes to mind is that this would require you to ignore the "quarantine" period completely. I'm sure that the RLA is healthy in-general, but the fact of the matter is that he has been living inside of a pet shop with other live birds and other species of live animals, reptiles, rodents, etc., and even more worrisome are the hundreds of people that the RLA has been interacting with and been in close proximity to this entire time he's been in the pet shop...So ignoring any type of quarantine and just putting the RLA inside of your house and together in the same room and in close-contact with Luna is a very scary thing. And if you were to just bring the RLA home and not have him be out in the same room with Luna and having the two birds spend time together, then the whole point of bringing him into your home is thrown out.

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Since the owner had already brought his/her bird into the petshop (and exposed it to every disease available overthere) I did not think that quarantine-time would be usefull anymore...


=


Well done on the common sense !
I know it is hard.

EllenD.

I do know better than to just shove 2 birds into the same cage.
Please give me a little credit for knowledge on the subject. I have been a caretaker of birds for 33 years.

Had I gone ahead with this I would have introduced them to each other in a neutral area. Barring that 2 cages close together.

As far as quarantine goes the RLA has been in the pet shop for more than 3 months and been healthy. The pet shop recently took the bird in for a checkup at the local avian vet. Don’t know how extensive it was but I would have asked for details if I intended to buy her.

I think you have answered the question yourself by asking it. You sound far from convinced and I think that is the main thing to say no to it. It's a decision of the heart and I think your heart may not be 100% in for it

texsize said:

EllenD.

I do know better than to just shove 2 birds into the same cage.
Please give me a little credit for knowledge on the subject. I have been a caretaker of birds for 33 years.

Had I gone ahead with this I would have introduced them to each other in a neutral area. Barring that 2 cages close together.

As far as quarantine goes the RLA has been in the pet shop for more than 3 months and been healthy. The pet shop recently took the bird in for a checkup at the local avian vet. Don’t know how extensive it was but I would have asked for details if I intended to buy her.

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Whoa! No no, that's not what I meant...I'm sorry...I did give you more credit that that...I simply read what someone said above regarding it not being a good idea to put them in the same cage if you don't have room for a second cage, and I thought that's the decision you were thinking of making due to space constraints...I'm sorry that you took it that way, like I said in my first post, being who you are and with your experience I know that you know all the possible outcomes that could result with bringing that RLA home, and that you were just needing others to help reassure you that your choice of not bringing him home was the right thing to do. Then when I read the other post where someone was talking about you knowing that it's not right to put the RLA into Luna's cage because you have no space for a second cage, I thought that I missed one of your posts where you spoke about this, and that this was what you were trying to decide...

Trust me, I know that you're experienced and an awesome parront Tex, that's why I said that this RLA does deserve the kind of home and care that you could provide it, but that you also know what might happen if you do bring him home, and you just need reassurance that not bringing him home is the right decision...You are not someone who I have or would ever question as far as your experience, your care, or your love for your birds Tex, and I'm sorry you took it that way...Damn writing on the internet, it doesn't come across correctly sometimes, and I apologize for the misunderstanding...

Oh, and as far as the "quarantine" goes, my concern about not doing a 30-day quarantine with this RLA, regardless of whether he's had a Avian Vet check or not, is the fact that he has in-fact been inside of a pet shop for 3 months or longer. It's not even him being around the other animals that is the biggest worry to be concerned with, though it should be one, but rather all the hundreds of people that this bird has been coming in-contact with every week, and probably their pets that they bring into the store with them. You just have no way to know what all he has been exposed to simply because he's been in a shop where the general public is allowed to come and go freely and probably also able to bring their animals in with them. That's not something that an Avian Vet can really account for, due to incubation-periods and such, you just don't know. And I'd hate for you to just bring him home for a very short "trial period", decide that it's not going to work, take him back to the shop, and then God forbid have Luna or your other birds become seriously ill with something a month or longer down the road...My concern there was only for the health of your birds, and the fact that doing a "trial period" like that would scare the hell out of me with my own birds. I mean, I apologize if I upset you by giving you my negative opinion about skipping the quarantine period in order to see how the RLA would interact with Luna in your home, but again, I was just giving you my own opinion based on my concern for you birds and how I would feel about doing this with my own birds...I'm sorry if I upset you Tex, I really was trying to support you and give you the most responsible and real advice that I could give you, and I really, truly meant you no insults. And the quarantine skipping just isn't something that I would personally risk with a bird that has been living in a public pet shop for months and months and who has been exposed to hundreds and hundreds of people and animals, and I'd hate to see your birds become sick as a result of you trying this out...I do apologize...