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Old 06-22-2019, 07:33 AM
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Re: Worried about my Lima Bean Queen (food safety question)

Quote: Originally Posted by wrench13 View Post
PLEASE explain why the lima beans need to be cooked !! Salty's latest chop contains some raw limas. Small, frozen, 1 serving baggies get zapped and are around 110deg F when i remove them, and let them cool down. Why is raw such a big deal? Please!
Howdy! I just saw this question!
https://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eat...t/1-lima-beans
As said, you are good to go with frozen! Also beans sold in the US have lower amounts of the toxin!
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:44 AM
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Re: Worried about my Lima Bean Queen (food safety question)

Quote: Originally Posted by PickleMeDickles View Post
Wrench, this is one of the things I was concerned about...... Cooking in slow cooker will sometimes not destroy the toxin as it must be fairly hot to destroy it.

Bunch of other ďsitesĒ with similar info.
I have personal experience in this area!
I always made batches of chile in a slow cooker! Twice, the entire family was very sick! I used to run the cooker at a very low temp! The line for the bathroom forms to the left!
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:40 AM
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Re: Worried about my Lima Bean Queen (food safety question)

This is SOMETIMES true, but not always!!! If you're going to buy frozen Lima Beans (or any other frozen veggie or fruit that is toxic/poisonous to birds if raw and not first cooked), you must first read the bag and confirm that the Lima Beans were first cooked before they were frozen. What you have to keep in-mind and what typically gets people in trouble is the process of "Flash-Freezing" or whatever each brand/company calls it, there are many different names for the process. More and more often companies are NOT FULLY-COOKING veggies before they freeze them, instead they are using processes other than cooking/heating the fresh, raw veggies to kill-off any microbes, parasites, etc. The reason that companies are starting to use processes other than cooking/heating fresh, raw veggies before freezing themm to kill-off microbes, parasites, etc. is because as has been well-known for decades now, heat removes much of the beneficial-nutrition contained in fresh, raw veggies, such as Vitamins, Minerals, etc. So an attempt to keep the high-level of Vitamins and Minerals contained in fresh, raw veggies that are going to be sold as frozen-veggies, they are more and more NOT COOKING/HEATING the veggies before they freeze them, but rather using different light-rays, different "flash-freezing" processes, etc. to kill-off Bacteria, Fungi, Protozoa, Parasites, etc. before the veggies are put into the typical plastic-bags and frozen for sale. So if you're going to feed your bird frozen Lima-Beans, you absolutely must read the bag and confirm that they were first "FULLY-COOKED", in exactly those words written on the bag. Otherwise it's likely that the frozen Lima-Beans in the bag still contain the toxin in the same levels that they normally contain when they are first-picked, which is not only lethal to birds/parrots if ingested, but also lethal to most reptiles, amphibians, and some rodents/other small-animals that are commonly kept as pets. There have been many Bearded Dragons who have suddenly and out of nowhere become extremely sick, and their owners have no idea why, until they get them to a Herp/Reptile Vet who asks them what they have fed to their Beardies in the last 72-hours, and when their owners tell them "Lima Beans", then they immediately know what the problem is. Usually Reptiles and small-animals aren't killed by eating fresh, raw Lima Beans if their owners get them to a Vet as soon as they notice any signs/symptoms of illness; birds of course, just like in all other similar situations, are much more senstive to most-all toxins/poisons and do often succumb to the Lima Bean poisoning...

Just an FYI, though I myself have never seen a bird/parrot suffering from toxicity/poisoning by PhytoHemagglutinin, which is a very interesting substance as it's actually a Viral-Protein that binds many strains of Influenza Virus to Cell-Membranes; the most interesting function of PhytoHemagglutinin is to actually attract Carnivorous-Predators of the Animals/Birds who commonly eat the plants they are found in (by releasing odors into the air around the plant it is present in, which is actually triggered by an Animal, Bird, Insect, etc. eating the plants/fruits off of the plant, such as Beans, by breaking-apart the membranes that contain the PhytoHemagglutinin...So yes, Lima Bean plants, as well as Red and White Kidney Bean Plants, Fava Bean plants, and many other plants that produce different types of Beans, ACTUALLY PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM BEING EATEN!!! I remember learning about this in a required Botany class that I had to take in College...There are actually videos you can find online of of Birds or Animals munching on different Bean-plants, and all of a sudden they are violently attacked or chased away from the plants by a Mountain Lion, a Bear, Coyotes, Foxes, etc. It's crazy. And if their doesn't happen to be a natural, Carnivorous-Predator of the Bird/Animal who is eating the plant nearby for the release of Phytohemagglutinin to signal/attract, the Bird/Animal who is eating the Beans off of the plant will at the very least become seriously sick in a matter of hours after eating the beans, if not actually die from the poisoning...

****Birds are unfortunately the creatures who usually die (due to their small size/weight and sensitivity to the toxin) from ingesting Phytohemagglutinin contained in MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF RAW BEANS...IT'S NOT JUST LIMA-BEANS WE AS BIRD OWNERS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT FEEDING TO OUR BIRDS RAW!!! The signs/symtoms of poisoning by Phytohemagglutinin closely-resemble those of a severe Stomach-Virus, and typically start and become outwardly visible within 1-3 hours of the Bird eating any raw Beans that contain the toxin. Common signs/symptoms include sudden very loose/very runny droppings, severe and sudden vomiting that is constant and doesn't stop even after the Bird's Crop and GI-Tract is empty (they basically dry-heave continuously for hours), obvious Lethargy, a lack of balance or ability to even stand due to the severe dehydration caused by the constant diarrhea and vomiting, and eventually unconsciousness and death. The problem is that the poisoning to a Bird or any Animal/Mammal, iNCLUDING HUMANS, by PhytoHemagglutinin doesn't actually target the GI Tract at all, but rather both the Red and White Blood Cells, which start to aggregte or "clump together" so that they cannot perform their normal functions, mainly the transport of Oxygen throughout the body in the blood by Red Blood Cells. The Stomach-Flu type symptoms are simply the result of the Phytohemagglutinin poisoning and it's effect on the Blood Cells. To the best of my knowledge there is not any type of actual "Antedote" that they can give to a Bird or other Animal/Mammal suffering from this poisoning, and this is why Birds typically do die within hours of eating a raw Bean that contains Phytohemagglutinin.

***So the bottom-line is that you should NEVER feed your Birds/Parrots ANY TYPE OF BEAN THAT IS RAW/UNCOOKED!!! Phytohemagglutinin is contained in MANY different types of raw, uncooked Beans, not just raw, uncooked Lima Beans. The types of RAW, UNCOOKED BEANS that I know are toxic/poisonous and lethal to ALL BIRDS/PARROTS, as well as poisonous/toxic to ALL MAMMALS, INCLUDING HUMANS, include Raw, Uncooked Lima Beans, White Kidney Beans, Red Kidney Beans, Fava Beans, and Butter Beans....I'm sure there are other Beans that are also toxic/poisonous if eaten Raw and Uncooked, so that's why you just can't EVER feed your Birds any type of Bean that isn't FULLY-COOKED (If I remember correctly you have to cook these Beans at Boiling-Temperature for at least 10-minutes in order to break the molecular-bonds of the Phytohemagglutinin and remove it from the Bean.

***Also, of course you can't just "Soak" any of these types of Beans in water overnight and then give them to your Birds (or eat them yourself either), they must actually be Boiled for at least 10-minutes to make them safe to eat. And as I stated above, you cannot just assume that if you buy Frozen Lima-Beans or any other Frozen Beans that they were FULLY-COOKED prior to being frozen, it must actually say "FULLY-COOKED" on the bag, otherwise you must also Boil these Frozen Beans for 10-minutes before eating them as well. The only form of Beans, any type of Beans, that are ALWAYS "FULLY-COOKED" before being packaged and sold are Canned Beans, they are always "Fully-Cooked" before they are Canned; of course you do not want to feed your Birds ANY Canned Beans or any other Canned Veggies or Fruit due to the very high Sodium and Preservative (Nitrates, Nitrites, MSG, etc.) content in Canned Veggies, and the very high Sugar and Preservative content in Canned Fruit. Also, yes, if you eat enough Raw, Uncooked Lima Beans you will become very sick, though you won't die unless you were to eat an enormous amount of them, which no one would do unless trying to kill themselves. However, I believe that it only takes eating between 5-10 Raw, Uncooked Lima Beans for a Human to become very sick with vomiting and diarrhea, while I'm not sure how many Raw, Uncooked Kidney, Fava, or Butter Beans it would take to make a Human very sick for sure, I assume it would be around the same amount, between 5-10 Raw, Uncooked Beans. Same goes for Dogs, Cats, Rabbits, etc., any type of Mammal...And the only treatment is Supportive-Care, meaning IV Fluids, IV Anti-Nausea and Anti-Diarrhea Meds, and rest. Humans and most other Mammals are large enough and have enough fluid in their bodies to survive through Phytohemagglutinin poisoning, however Birds do not, and they typically die from severe Dehydration and/or shock from an extremely low Blood-Sugar level because they vomit-up and poop-out all of the fluid in their bodies...
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