grumpy alexandrine

Hi all

my alexandrine Jimmy is being a wee bit challenging, he won't get off his stand when I need to put him away. If it is near bedtime he is happy to but during the day when I go to get him off his stand to, for example, go get the kids for school he lunges and bites. I'm trying not to react but it hurts when he bites. I have tried bribery with his favorite treats but he's not fooled. when I do get him back in his cage he is grumpy and does his growly noise so he's not happy, I'm just ignoring that. Has anyone got any ideas?

thanks

my eclectus gets very grumpy when molting??

Are his wings clipped? Pick him up very gently from the back with your right thumb & 1st finger (if you are right handed) wrapped around the back of his head just below his beak. Hold him gently just under or at the very bottom of his beak. He can't bite you then because you are holding his beak from the back. It immobilizes his head. Do not hold his neck tightly. This is how we do it with large parrots. You can also if he flutters down to the floor from his stand, gently throw a towel over him & then pick him up exactly the way that I have described above. This is the same way that the vet tech holds him when they do an exam at the vet. Just make sure to keep his back against your body & his wings pressed up against his body the way that he normally holds them when he is perching.

actually he may be at start of his molt, good point, I'd be reluctant to grab hold him, the mood he's in he'd never forgive me! I suppose in emergency though.......

No bird has ever held it against me if I had to pick him up that way. That would never be my first choice of how to pick up a parrot, it is more like a last resort, when you have tried other things already & they have not worked. Sometimes you need to leave the house & you need to get them back in their cage first. I would not leave my home with a large parrot out, (I have a large parrot, I used to have 5 large parrots) the home might be destroyed/chewed up when I get back or the bird could decide to bite an electrical cord & endanger himself. Of course it is ideal if they will always step up on command, but sometimes we have foster birds or rescue birds who will not. Then we have to take the situation in hand. It doesn't sound like your bird is stepping up on command, he is biting you. He is asserting his authority because he doesn't want to be put back in the cage. So basically he is in control now.
You can also try picking up one of his feet with your hand & usually they will just follow with their other foot & step up. It would be great if that would work with him. Have you tried that before?

I don't agree on grabbing and holding a bird unless they are a chick who has been raised with that sort of handling. But that's IMO. It does not work with all birds, and you have to really know what your doing. Otherwise it can cause more harm than good.

I say persistence is key, instead of taking his bites I would give a firm no and then ask again. No need to leave your hand right there and let your hand be torn apart. When my GCC bites I retract, give a firm no, and ask again. If he chooses to continue I take away the fun. I put away the toys, the treats, the other birds, and leave the room. When it's no fun he suddenly wants to cooperate and listen If push comes to shove and you need to leave in an emergency a little shoo with a rag is ok.

Iolani what does this mean;

" If push comes to shove and you need to leave in an emergency a little shoo with a rag is ok."

"a shoo with a rag"?

How do you get a parrot into it's cage with "a little shoo with a rag"?

I work with large parrots, not lovebirds & cockatiels & conures & I do not ever "shoo" them.
I have worked with large parrots including hand-feeding them, clipping their wings, & giving them injections when advised to by my Avian vet and all their daily care & attention for over 10 years.

Alexandrine Parakeets are not awfully large and a "shoo" would work fine. If your bird is on the cage and it's in an emergency situation there is no issue with taking a rag or hand towel and simply placing it near the bird "shoo-ing" it towards the door. It's much better then taking a nasty bite or getting impatient with the bird. I re-read and see that she is talking about the bird being on a stand, perhaps a step up perch is in order? They sell different kits that are made of various woods, it would be great to teach him to step up better, and his bites surely wouldn't hurt the stand. These one's were posted on another forum >> Parrot Training Perch Stands

I'm sure your larger birds are lovely

mylah is going through a molt now and trust me shes a different bird, if the bird isn't showing other signs of illness i wouldn't be worried

that's a good idea with the stick training I'll do a bit of that with him. I'll try removing his toys and things too. Its like dealing with my kids really

We used sticks with Max because he's a bit afraid of hands. His general demeaner is grouchy but can be very sweet with my husband and son. Stick training works well.

I have a "T" perch that all my Alex's will step up on. Your issue will be if he is flighted because he will just fly off. I trained mine to step up on the perch when they were clipped. You could see if your bird will step up on the t-perch and hold your hand close to his back so it will feel it can't fly off. Just a suggestion.

Our Max is flighted and only very seldom does he fly off the stick. He almost always steps on the stick and stays there until he steps up to his perch in his cage. Granted if he thinks it's unreasonable of us to put him in his cage at that time, he will try to nip, but that doesn't happen often.

I'd second the recommendation for stick training ... and also the idea that it IS just like working with your kids. That is of course if you are a good parent!

But also remember to see things from his perspective. If he willingly goes to the cage and gets a treat, but then is left in the cage for a while and you leave - was he rewarded, or punished?

Reward/punishment is not about what you intended, but about what he experiences.

In addition to stick training, I'd recommend teaching him to go in his cage. To do this you do not just reward him when you get him in the cage, then go about your day (picking up the kids, etc). Instead you need to devote some time - not much, a couple minutes a day will do - to *teaching* the go-to-cage activity.

First you have to find a reliable way to get him to go into the cage. Hopefully a stick/perch could work, or if necessary toweling/grabbing, but I suspect a little bit of patience and prior planning so you are not in a rush to get him in will make this easier. Ideally you'd want to *lure* him in the cage with a favorite treat - but you may have to work up to that if he's already formed negative associations with the cage.

In any case, when he gets in the cage, give him a favored treat (through the cage, him in, you out) and give him lots of praise - then IMMEDIATELY let him out of the cage again and let him go back to what he was doing.

You want him to learn that going into the cage gets him ONLY good things and he doesn't lose all the fun things he was doing outside the cage. At least that's most of the time. If this is the case most of the time, he'll be okay with accepting the other times when going in the cage means he just gets a treat then gets left there for a little while.

As odd as it sounds such variable reinforcement schedules (when they get rewarded 'randomly' for doing the right behavior rather than consistently) is *more* effective than continuous reward schedules.

As you work on this, over time gradually extend the time in the cage from an immediate release, to him staying in for a couple of seconds, to several seconds, to a couple minutes. You want him also to learn that even if he gets put in the cage, you'll get him out soon enough.