From buddy to biter

burdman

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May 8, 2013
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Eclectus parrot, rescue, Riley 13 yr old, CAG siblings Punkin and Munkin, 5 yr old
About at my wits end.
Riley, our rescue eclectus, has turned on me over the last couple months. He begs to be held, so I pick him up. Now, within 5 minutes, he willfully looks for any part of my arm or hand or fingers to start biting aggressively. He used to let me hold him for long periods of time with no issues, other than his hormonal behavior.
Friday night he bit me while holding him after his shower while he was still over the tub. He's never shown any aggression during bath time, in fact he is usually very affectionate during this time. That was the first bite in what turned out to be a weekend filled with nasty bites.
I don't understand at all. I can walk up to his cage and put my face in front of him and he nuzzles my cheek. I can rub his beak, pet his head and neck. He pretty much will happily accept any affection while on his cage.
I am sooo frustrated, a little bit hurt, and baffled by this change.
I wanted to have a companion for the rest of my life, but now I am reluctant to even pick him up. My fear is that I am making it worse by trying to keep picking him up, when it seems that doing so angers him, even though he begs to be picked up.
Any advice on how I might turn this behavior around?
 

Birdman666

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Sep 18, 2013
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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
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First, you have to be able to anticipate bites. Don't break eye contact right now.

Second, two fingers on the beak to prevent him from biting you when stepping up, and two fingers to push away the beak plus a gentle nudge if he tries to latch on to you when stepping up.

If he bites, he goes to the floor, and he has to sit there a minute being ignored while he thinks about what he just did. He doesn't get picked up again, until he steps up nice.
 
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burdman

burdman

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Well I tried picking him up before reading your post and it went about as bad as possible.
He managed to get hold of the hand he was not standing on and really let me have it. When I was able to break that hand free he got ahold of my index finger to the full depth into his beak he could, and just started gnawing, squawking at full volume. I could not get free from his biting for quite some time. He managed to get both my hands. I kept trying to put him on his cage shelf door, but he would not let go of me. It got pretty intense. I was afraid I was going to hurt him just trying to get out of his grasp. He was furious, over what I don't know. I have never been attacked like that by any animal.
In the best interest for him, and myself I will no longer be handling him. My hands are shredded. My emotions are running high. I've molded my life around this bird and his care. I so look forward to seeing him every day. My reward is resentment and pain.
At this point I think it would be in my better interest to look for a breeder and get myself a hand raised bird that will be my companion bird.
Riley will still receive the utmost care. Perhaps one day we can get back to where we were, but we are so far from that now that I'm not holding out much hope.
 

legal_eagle

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Feb 28, 2013
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Green Cheek Conure Pee-Wee
Have you tried to clip his wings and the steps that Birdman666 explained? You need to break this pattern of behavior that has developed (that's a more accurate and helpful way of explaining what is happening, rather than ascribing emotions, which are probably inaccurate, to them). Clip the wings, pick him up for brief periods (it sounds like the biting occurs after he has been on you a while). Birdman666's steps should do the trick.
 
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burdman

burdman

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Eclectus parrot, rescue, Riley 13 yr old, CAG siblings Punkin and Munkin, 5 yr old
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His wings have always been clipped.
I am not ready to attempt to pick him up again. Not sure I will ever be after yesterday.
The biting started within 30 seconds of me picking him up.
I feel that perhaps I have done him a great disservice adopting him.
I thought I was doing the right thing, as no one wanted him because of his age.
It may have been better for him if someone skilled in handling behavioral problems had adopted him.
Very disheartened myself, and concerned for him moving forward.
Not sure how I am going to deal with bathing him, and vet visits if I cannot handle him.
Just cannot fathom how this turned so completely sideways.
 

Freespin

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Nov 28, 2013
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That sounds pretty scary! Any changes lately? Moved cage? That kind of thing? Maybe a bit of a break from each other while you re assess the situation and he cools off a bit. I would suggest thick gloves next time you try to pick him up! And make it short and sweet. Step up. Get avtreat. Get down.
 

legal_eagle

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That's really difficult, burdman, sorry to hear it. If you just picked him up to move him when necessary, would that work? Maybe he's a hands off kind of bird--I think that Eclectus can be that way.
 

thekarens

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Sep 29, 2013
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You can use a spray bottle for bathing and a towel for vet visits when needed. Even with a hand fed baby there's no guarantee that they won't eventually start biting.
 

Freespin

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Nelson - Male Eclectus
Hmmm actually I have been thinking about this a bit more and here is what I would suggest.

Do t bother trying to pick him up on your hand if it will result in you being mauled. Move him around on a branch. If he looks like he is going to come for you put him down immediately.

Do some target training with him. It will give him positive interaction with you and something else to think about other than attacking you. Eventually when he is getting consistent and cooperative with target training you can get him to start stepping up with it again.
 
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burdman

burdman

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Eclectus parrot, rescue, Riley 13 yr old, CAG siblings Punkin and Munkin, 5 yr old
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kendrafitz

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Jul 14, 2012
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Rosie the Green Winged Macaw
I'm so sorry you have been having such a hard time!

I don't know much about ekkies, I have a GW. To try to get some insight I read through your older posts. Has Riley still been viewing you as his mate? I know you were having issues with him being frustrated. As I said, I don't know much about ekkies, but am just wondering if that is what caused his attacks?

If so, maybe someone has some advice on how to handle it? My GW is young, just entering the "terrible twos" so I don't have experience with hormonal issues either. Hopefully a member who has lived through it can help you and Riley out.

I hope everything works out soon. I feel so badly, you seem so sad and disheartened. It must be so frustrating to go from him being your buddy to shredding your hands.
 

GaryBV

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Burdman reading your posts in this thread just have made me so sad. I feel badly for you, and I feel badly for your bird. Do try to get a handle on your resentment, he is a bird after all, and I can't blame you for not wanting to pick him up, but he still will need attention and care, so maybe you can use a perch or stick to pick him up with rather than a body part. I am actually very nervous around large birds for the very reasons you are talking about, so I got small birds as my pets instead. I hope after your anger fades a bit that you will revisit your relationship with him, and start over again, my guess is you both deserve that chance.
 

Caesar

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Burdman.
Without sounding to pushy you have to get over being afraid of your bird .Now he knows that HE is the dominate bird in the flock. I also know that this isn't a easy ask as I had a similar experience with one of my sulfer crested Cockatoos. And man I have the scars and dental work (from grinding my teeth) to prove it.
I put my Bird in a dimly lighted room with just basic amount of light and kept on using the UP command over over and over to regain dominance.
I always had her favourite treat with in HER eye distance but like you she only would bit after she was taken from the cage so if she looked like she was going to bite no treat,I used the treat as the second step in that training session .....than back to the cage.
the whole process where I felt unafraid of he on my shoulder took about 2months .Sometimes I did this 4 or 5 times a day.
good luck with your little:green2: guy and keep us all posted
 
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burdman

burdman

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Eclectus parrot, rescue, Riley 13 yr old, CAG siblings Punkin and Munkin, 5 yr old
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Hi everyone. Thanks for so many responses.
I have considered the hormonal behavior as a factor, but he isn't even being held long enough to start doing that, and it has actually curtailed quite a bit in the last couple of weeks.

I think I may have given the wrong impression. I am not angry at all. I am associating the birds behavior as angry, which is probably not realistic.

While I don't like his bites, I do not fear them. Believe me, if you saw how much biting I endured willfully, you would see that. I have never let him know his bite is an effective weapon.
My concern is that if he goes into this biting frenzy again that I am going to hurt him trying to get free from his grasp.
He literally had my one hand in a death grip with his claws, and the other hand in his beak. I was concerned that trying to get free I could have really injured him.
He was out of his cage for about 4 hours last night. He begged to be picked up the whole time.

That's part of what is sooo bizarre about this, he craves interaction, but the minute I give him any, he is going off on me.

I know I said I won't pick him up anytime soon, but that was when my emotions were getting the better of me.

I am stubborn, and I am reading about training techniques, and hopefully I will get him back to his loveable self.
 

cstambaugh

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Nov 3, 2013
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My concern is that if he goes into this biting frenzy again that I am going to hurt him trying to get free from his grasp.
He literally had my one hand in a death grip with his claws, and the other hand in his beak. I was concerned that trying to get free I could have really injured him.
He was out of his cage for about 4 hours last night. He begged to be picked up the whole time.

That's part of what is sooo bizarre about this, he craves interaction, but the minute I give him any, he is going off on me.

I know I said I won't pick him up anytime soon, but that was when my emotions were getting the better of me.

I am stubborn, and I am reading about training techniques, and hopefully I will get him back to his loveable self.

When he bites, go stone still. I know it hurts, but he may now be doing it as a game. If he bites and you do something, he finds it fun, and will repeat. Just sit there until he's done. He will most likely let go and look up at you with eyes saying "ok I'm confused, why didnt you perform for me?!"

Bite = floor + towel. Birds HATE towels. Just teach him this, he'll get it very soon. You dont have to show anger, just let him know if he wants to meet mr. towel, bite is him saying "I want to play with Mr. towel!"
Keep your voice tone calm and collected while doing so.
 

legal_eagle

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Feb 28, 2013
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Green Cheek Conure Pee-Wee
It's hard to reconcile him "begging" to be picked up with him then being in a biting "frenzy." I tend to think you're misinterpreting his "begging." I think Eclectuses are not hands-on birds, and that they can be feisty. Search You Tube for the Riley the talking Eclectus videos. He doesn't strike me as a bird who wants to be held and touched a lot, and he gets pretty feisty at one one point, throwing around his owner's keyboard.

I think the advice often given here to just put up with biting and not "reward it" is just wrong, unless you're a conducting a psychology experiment or want to get your bird so he can be a star on TV. Similarly, I don't think there's any value to the practice of labeling your bird as "dominant" and then trying to assert your own "dominance" over it.
Why must things devolve into a struggle for power of "dominance"? My theory is that many people are very afraid of the amazing power of their birds, which is very real in the larger birds, and thus focus energy on constantly trying to "dominate" so they don't feel afraid.

Instead, you should be using ways to distract your bird to stop the biting, such as throwing him off balance by twisting you arm when he bites or is bending down to bite you. ("He goes to the floor," as Birdman666 puts it, although the bird doesn't need to actually fall off your arm ... the point is to interrupt the behavior.) Just letting him bite you repeatedly is going to instill a pattern of behavior in him. Avoid the situations when he tends to bite ... instead, enjoy his presence, sit near him, talk to him, get a stand, spray him with mist ... all good stuff that won't get you bitten. See what develops over time as you get to know each other rather than getting into a huge power struggle with him, which is probably he cause of the biting.
 
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SandyBee

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I have to agree with not letting him bite in the first place. I will not allow my amazon to bit me.(yes we all get nailed sometime) anytime he lunges or does anything I'm not comfortable with he gets told not nice and removed.They will learn very quickly,reward for good. I would wobble my arm and make him unsteady or in my case I flick my hand so my amazon flies but I keep him fully flighted. You may need to do it a thousand times but you'll get there
 
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burdman

burdman

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May 8, 2013
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Moorpark Ca
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Eclectus parrot, rescue, Riley 13 yr old, CAG siblings Punkin and Munkin, 5 yr old
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Lots of good advice here. Thanks all. I appreciate this very much.
Legal, I have to disagree a little on his "begging". I have read about, and witnessed myself how ekkies beg. He kind of "crouches" low, and his wings start to tremble like he's considering flight. If you come to him, he'll run to you and step up.

I think in this ekkie's case he does like to be held, perhaps more than other ekkies.

In fact, the more I am reading, i'm beginning to think maybe he has attachment issues. Before this latest episode he would fight not to be put down. He always protests when he is put back on or in his cage.

The "earthquake shake" response to biting seems to make it worse. That really sets him off, he'll start squawking and flapping his wings, and as soon as he regains balance he gives me a nice chomp!!

Going to try Birdmans advice once I heal up a bit.
 

GaryBV

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Well burdman I do have to say I have noticed a complete change in your tone, and tha you are looking to keep trying and I think that is a very good thing. I know myself I can't tolerate my bird biting me, although I only have one that does, a tiny little Pacific Parrotlet female named CeeCee, and her bites HURT, a LOT, she actually twists my flesh in her beak and draws blood, so I can only imagine what an ekkies bite is like. Good luck with him, and good for you for reinvesting yourself in him, and in yourself.
 
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burdman

burdman

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Eclectus parrot, rescue, Riley 13 yr old, CAG siblings Punkin and Munkin, 5 yr old
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Riley's world. I imagine he is picturing a target on the dogs head.

In case anyone is concerned, the dog and the bird are never left unattended.

P.S. the dog just turned 15!!

Riley is potty trained to go on the floor when he's on top of the cage, that's why the papers are there.
 

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