Folger behavior... now flying attacks...

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
So I was going to make the title of this thread... Folger is being mean to me... but figured it was more serious then a funny title...

We posted about the step up turning into a nasty bite on the arm Saturday. That seems to have opened a door with Folger and he is now doing a jump / flying attack thing with me. Up until the step up request, there had been what I would call a grudgingly semi truce... I would give him toys or treats and he would grumble at me, but no lunging or biting. Today he has twice left the chair or table and flew (much as the chicken bird can with what feathers he has) at me. Both times I was able to safely get him to the ground with no one shedding blood. Tho the first was kinda funny, I was walking into the kitchen and I give him a wide berth as I go past so not to think I'm invading his space and he needs to defend himself. I got past him and the bugger jumped off the table and landed on my leg (wearing pj pants, so yes there was a moment of panic that resulted in me calling for Tori to help get her little vulture). The second time I was going out of the kitchen and I got well past him and he got a little more lift this time and came a decent distance and landed on my arm, again got him to the floor, but this time we had some flying oatmeal, as I was carrying my bowl of just made oatmeal to the sofa, cause there was an attack bird occupying the table, so not like I could sit there...

All humor aside and yes, I do find some humor in this, but know its quite a serious issue. We adopted Folger knowing he may very well never be a bird that would safely socialize. I can accept 100% if he is only happy with Victoria and only wants to interact with her. However, flying or jumping attacks just is not acceptable to live with... I am home quite often, I have MS, no longer can work full time and work for a wonderful small company that allows me to do most of what I need from home using logmein, so when the weather is too hot or too cold or just having one of those days where everything hurts, I am home... Victoria is still in college and has a fairly easy schedule with this being her last semester for her bachelor's degree, so we don't have a luxury of her being home a whole lot by herself to have him out alone. And while we are in the works with making her an awesome new wood playstand designed with Folger in mind for her room or wherever she wants to roll it, I am not real happy that leaves her confined to one room for his out time.

So for anyone who has dealt with the flying attacks in any species, not just cockatoo, what are your main suggestions? I had read quite a bit of Birdman's posts in other threads and had in mind to get him down to the floor. But, what can we do to curb his new urge to fly and bite whatever body part he can get his beak on? My thought is I need to show him I am higher up the flock chain, but with his history and abuse he has suffered, I don't know if what works for a 'normal' bird will work for Folger. He truly is psychotic, all jokes aside, he has some major issues because of what people have done to him. So while I don't want to have him thinking this is acceptable behavior I don't want to do anything that is further trauma to an already 'damaged' psyche.

So knowing that we are dealing with a bird that has suffered mental and physical abuse and years of neglect, how do we teach him that even tho he doesn't have to like me or socialize with me, chasing me down to bite my butt is not acceptable either.

And for anyone suggesting returning him or any thoughts of that sort, that's not happening, don't even bother wasting your time typing. We knew what we were getting into with him, we knew his background... he belongs with Victoria, there is no doubt or question about that, we only need specific help with how to curb the jump attacks.

Thanks in advance for any help!!
 

labell

New member
Feb 17, 2014
1,988
5
East
I have no advise with cockatoos or flying attacks I just want to say I wish you all the best with him and love you for making it clear you won't give up.
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #3
labell -

Thanks for your thoughts and support... we knew there would be blood shed long before he came home from the shelter, heck there was a lot of bloodshed during our meetings with him!! :) everyone desires to be loved for who or what they are, we are happy he does so well with Victoria, it would be devastating to him if he went back to a life without her...

But again, thanks for the thoughts and support :)
 

Pinkbirdy

New member
Feb 26, 2013
2,203
1
Clifton Springs Newyork
Parrots
macaw,LS2,congo grey,2Blk Hd caiques,Hawkhead,yellowstrk lory,Blue frnt amazon,sun conure ,Yellow sided greencheek ,Goffin ,Rosebreasted Cockatoo,Greenwing Macaw,Blue and Gold Macaw,Nanday conure,Ecle
Pearl our goffin [I got off craigslist ] When I went to see him he tried to fly and attack everyone in the room except his owner. I had never seen anything like it [I thought this things nuts] . I left thinking I wouldn't subject my family to that . They called and begged me to take him. I know what was going on at the house . He thought the women was his mate. The other family members didn't like him or made effort to have relationship with him [and he knew it]. At my house he immediately bonded with me [far cry from what he was ] All my family makes an effort with him [and its working] He does tricks on a stick [we hoot and holler ] . He wants his 2 minutes of fame. What I would suggest is if he isn't in the mood to come out try later and keep it brief . Have your whole family into him in a BIG way . Keep trying different things . Mine would scream till I figured out he was bored and didn't like the million toys he had . I use newspaper and cardboard boxes [hes a shredder] now hes super busy.
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #5
there is a long long history with Folger including physical abuse... he was the shelter for 6 years and pretty much attacked anyone and everyone. He's not a typical cockatoo behavior problem, its not about people not fussing over him and interacting with him, when he is out we all interact with him and he loves clowning and performing for everyone, but no one but Victoria can be with him. I really appreciate your thoughts, but all you posted is what we would do with a 'normal' bird who had suffered some neglect, in fact its exactly what we did with my own bare eyed girl, Ivory who was a rehome that lived with 2-4 years of neglect and all those thoughts worked perfectly for a slightly 'damaged' too... but Folger is kinda like rehabilitating a felon with multiple violent convictions... I believe we can teach him to be less aggressive, but no one who has known him all his years at the shelter believed he would even be able to live in a home environment. He is simply not a bird that can be a family member where we all interact with him, he's had 10-15+ years of abuse and damage that we may never be able to undo. And trying to force him into that situation is more damaging to him in my opinion, there are times when you simply accept and love your family including the feathered ones, for who or what they are.... We walked into the adoption of Folger with that mindset, but this new flying biting behavior is one we need to figure out to curb for my safety...

He interacts wonderfully with Victoria, so we are fine with him interacting with the person he really needs... I only need help with very specifically how to teach a bird with his volatile history to stop the flying attacks. We accept Folger for all his other warts and issues, I'll accept responsibility for any other bites - handing him treats or toys, etc, we know he will bite, if it happens, I completely hold him faultless... but the flying crap for no reason is the one thing we need to resolve.
 

SandyBee

New member
Oct 5, 2012
1,455
1
Coquitlam BC, Canada
Parrots
DYH Amazon-Rescue- Bosley (36),
African Brown head-Rescue- August(9)
My amazon used to fly and attack my hubby's head.
What we did to curb that is hubby would carry a towel on his shoulder and when Bosley would fly at him he would hold it up and block his face. It made Bosley turn around mid flight everytime. After a few weeks Bosley no longer tried to attack him.

Some may give the advice to cut his wings till he is a bit more stable in this area as well. It is a valid option for this type of behaviour, it is not the route we chose though.
 

riddick07

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2011
2,106
46
PA
Parrots
Blue & Gold Macaw (Titan) & Yellow Naped Amazon (Kelly)
He is already clipped! He can't really fly just kind of spring and lift slightly before landing on whatever body part he gets...he's not very picky:) He is not a towel fan so this would probably work!
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #8
Sandy - The towel would be a deterrent for him, he hates the towel... after years of being toweled at the shelter when it was cage cleaning and such, he would definitely want to avoid it. I did jokingly walk past him once holding a big throw blanket like a wall laughing if he can't see me... But just having the towel handy or in sight might be enough to stop this before it becomes a real habit. We were talking about it and I did say next time I thought to have a towel handy for once he was down on the ground, but the towel in sight might be enough to stop it before we get to that point.

Clipping him further won't work... he doesn't really fly... if you've seen videos and pics in the cockatoo section, Folger is a major plucker, he does not get any real lift, its more a jump with wings flapping but not getting too far. He is not able to get across a room at me, its just if I pass close enough and he can get a good 'running' jump he can make it close enough to grab on. If he was on the ground, he would chase me down tho, he started to do that this morning too!!! But he could not fly to get there... and sounds almost stupid for me to be worrying about upsetting him, but I would be more worried at this point the clipping of his wings on his mindset then him taking a leap at me... If you can imagine adopting a child who has suffered years of physical abuse and doesn't understand that a hug is a happy normal thing, Folger is like that fractured soul.
 

SandyBee

New member
Oct 5, 2012
1,455
1
Coquitlam BC, Canada
Parrots
DYH Amazon-Rescue- Bosley (36),
African Brown head-Rescue- August(9)
Oh then do try this towel trick, it worked on my fully flighted amazon that would fly across the house. He still fly's to where my hubby is but chooses not to attack. He even likes my hubby now and will go sit on his lap, it's a very non traumatic way of dealing with it. Also if he still lunges off he will probably cling to the towel and you can put him on the ground. Good luck I hope this works for you.

Also at first when walking by with the towel, hold it up so he can see it and see it being placed on your shoulder.
There smart little buggers, hopefully he gets the hint.
 
Last edited:

Kiwibird

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2012
9,539
111
Parrots
1 BFA- Kiwi. Hatch circa 98', forever home with us Dec. 08'
Poor guy :( Folger is still very new to your home, and given his history and the general nature of cockatoos being "one person" birds, I think time is going to be the only solution to this. And even then, it will probably only ever be him not outright attacking you, but I would be very doubtful he will ever be "ok" with you. I think some "alternative" solutions may be the best bet for him, for your safety and his. Remember, while a bite to the hand or arm may be fairly easy to not react negatively to, when something is attacking your head/face/neck, it is only human nature to try and get that something away from you. It would be horrible to accidentally hurt Folger because of a split second reaction.

Alfie the goffin has never been abused and only been in one home since he was a few weeks old, but he still only likes my dad, and god help anyone else who crosses him when he's in a foul mood. When I got to be a toddler, Alfie started chasing me around and my parents had to clip him for a few years after he bit me in the face. He is the only one who's ever been clipped, and it was temporary, but it did humble him up not being able to fly and do as he pleased. There was a pretty drastic change in his behavior after he was clipped, and he overall became a lot nicer. However, once I was older and they let the flight feathers grow back, he became a little such and such again. Because my mom has been to the hospital several times for to-the-bone bites from Alfie, he was trained to be handled in thick, leather gloves. That way, if my dads not home and he gets out or she puts the birds outside in the summer, my mom can get a hold of him safely (and if he bites the gloves, its not a trip to the hospital). He's typically only out when my dad is home, and has a ENORMOUS flight cage to compensate for the extra time he spends in it. My dad takes him into the bedroom or his art studio in the mornings/evenings, closes the door and plays with him for a couple hours every day. When he is free-flying in the house, my mom wears a hat and towel around her neck, or just goes in another room and closes the door. It's a mystery why he is the way he is, but protective coverings, and restricting his interaction around everyone but my dad has been the only way to really stop him from attacking. Clipping worked better than anything else, but my parents are very much resolved to leave their birds flighted if at all possible.

I might suggest trying to just steer clear of Folger if your daughter is the "chosen one" for him. Get him a flight cage so he has freedom to move about during the day, and when she has her interaction times with him, leave or wear protective clothes. And he should be stick or glove trained so you can handle him safely in case of emergency. As for trying to be nice to him, theres no reason you shouldn't offer him treats and talk to him, but I wouldn't let a vicious bird have free run of the house. Whether or not he ever becomes nicer and can have more freedoms is another story, but for his safety and yours, it sounds like a better schedule and arrangement (i.e. staying in your daughters room or a large cage when she's not home) needs to be set up for him.
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #11
Folger doesn't have free run... and we're already accepting that he is her bird, we're trying to force that level of interaction... the only resolution we need is how to get him to not chase / fly attack. I already offered him a piece of millet after the attacks this morning. The toos usually don't get millet, but it was a treat long enough that I could safely offer without having my fingers up near his face :)

With Folger's issues, having a huge cage is actually not a good thing for him.... He has a nice big cage now and we just got him a slightly larger one thru the rescue, but something too far oversized, he would be too panicky.

The more we think about Sandy's suggestion, we really think that will be a great option for us to try. He already has a fear of towels, so its something he has knowledge he wants to avoid. I have thought about getting the leather falconry gloves and let Victoria work with him to be used to those cause we know there will be a time or point in the next 40 years or so that I'm still around that she'll need help with him outside of just feeding, water and pulling bottom trays out to clean! So, we also have thought we need some means of dealing with him for emergencies. So think your glove suggestion is something we will need to work on too.

We knew we would probably never have a relationship with him... we joke we have the complete opposite extremes for bare eyed toos... My Ivory is so well socialized and lovable even with her not totally happy history that she is a wonderful example of a rehomed too that just needs some patience, love and training to be a wonderful family member... then there is Folger... the poster boy for why there needs to be licensed birdie psychiatrists!!

Thanks for taking the time to post :) I'll go looking online for gloves now!
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
Media
2
43
Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
Would you consider keeping him inside his cage, then target training him while he's inside? You can target him to various perches within his cage. Once he targets reliably for one person, get another person in and have that person target him. Once he's comfortable with that, add another person into the mixture. Keep this up until he targets reliably with everyone.

Once he's able to target reliably within his cage (door kept closed), then try opening the door and targeting around the cage with the door open. If he seems ok with this, then target him to various places on the outside of the cage, as well as targeting him to go in and out of his cage without issues.


Once he's achieved this, then teach him to station. Reward him for staying put and every time you walk by him, give him a foot toy and/or a treat.



I've only had one of my birds fly and attack someone, but I've never been able to train her not to, since it's been a one time occurrence. I'll be able to revisit that issue in a couple of months, though! (as things change)

And I may get to experience my own nekkid cockatoo in a few months! Less feathers than Folger, sounds like he's got a horrible past as well, but amazingly he's a calm and cuddly cockatoo. A perfect apartment bird. (kind of scary thinking that!!!! especially since Thomas is an umbrella) The rescue I went and visited on Monday just about threw him at me because she thought I was the perfect candidate for him! (she's refused to rehome him to anyone who *has* been interested in him) And I didn't even go there looking to adopt a bird! She was ready to send him home with me that day! LOL --- So I may be browsing the 'too section to freshen up on my 'too knowledge. I'll probably be reading more about Ivory and Folger! I'm not sure that I want to adopt Thomas, but I may be willing to foster him. :)
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #13
Folger is an exception to probably most every training theory or program out there. His abuse is long, physical and has left him beyond scared. If he was a human, he would probably be locked away as a sociopath.

Training in his cage would not work, he tries to attack thru the cage... Victoria's exact comment was if you meant target training in his cage as in him pulling in the target and ripping it to shreds as if it was my arm, then yep, it would work.

Folger was not a bird the shelter ever expected to adopt, his problems are very deep emotional and damaging. Not that any bird is beyond rehabilitation, but in over 6 years, he has only shown a willingness to work with one person - Victoria. For whatever reason, she is the single person he has chosen to trust and love. Again, if he were a human, he'd probably be a dangerous stalker!

The irony of all this, the only training to get him to stop the flying attacks... was Victoria using a stern voice and telling him no or simply putting her hand up. Without any 'training', he responds and listens to her that well. And yes, he does listen and responds. He will fluff up his head and get into his chicken bull run position, but instantly responds when she tells him no. He has not once charged or done anything close to the behavior. He lets me know he still does not want me to be near Victoria or me even walking past his cage, but when she is on the sofa with him, she will again, tell him no and I can sit on the sofa without him charging me. He'll keep an eye on me, but I can even hand her items and he watches warily. We joke that he would be a vicious attack animal if she opted to train him in that manner!!

I think 99.9% of any too you find in a shelter will be nothing like him. He is really one of those exceptions, a very sad exception even in the world of abused and 'damaged' birds.

Ivory is a wonderful example of a slightly damaged cockatoo that with just a little time and love turns into a wonderful, happy, loving and very social family member.

Every bird is different, but I don't think that is any truer then in the too realm. They are truly like adopting a two year old child and knowing that child will never grow up in your lifetime.

Best of luck with your consideration of Thomas. I am not a huge fan of fostering toos... they get too attached, if you bring Thomas home and work with him, it will be more devastating to him to then be taken from you and placed elsewhere. Going to the shelter and working with him on social skills is one thing and I would encourage that to anyone, but him settling into your home is almost like dangling a carrot in front of him then snatching it away...

A plucking too is not necessarily a problem bird, simple boredom can cause plucking. If Thomas is not mutilating, his issues may not run too deep. Ivory was an over preener, not quite to plucking, but would twist and knot the downy feathers under her wings. Folger on the other hand is a full blown mutilator which goes along with the level of abuse he suffered and the emotional issues we are dealing with.

Again, good luck and I hope Thomas finds a wonderful permanent home, either with you or another family open to working with him!
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
Media
2
43
Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
Could use a knitting needle or acrylic stick to target. Heck, you could even go slower with the target training by rewarding him for *looking* at the target, then reward him for moving his head towards it, then stepping towards it - but not actually touching it! Once he shows calm behavior, then work on the touching part. Of course, this may require finding a target item that Folger is not afraid of, nor will he attack outright.


Based on what you've said, it sounds as if Folger can be trained! He's going to probably take months, but he's definitely trainable! :D (so glad that he was able to find someone he'd be willing to trust!)


I'm sure that seeing him in person is quite different to what you are describing though, and we can't really *see* all of his behavior.




As far as Thomas, well my largest bird right now is my mitred conure and I wasn't even interested in getting a larger bird for some years yet. I realize they are more expensive than the smaller birds food and toys wise - not to mention cage and all that. I was offered a decent sized cage (didn't see it, but was given an idea of it's size - smaller than what my mitred conure lives in! but then he's got a larger than normal sized cage anyway), toys, (presumably food and perches as well) and him, for free. That alone is already a lot of expenses out of the way.

The rescue wants me to foster to adopt him, but I'm not sure about the adopting part. His feathers are a *mess* but he doesn't seem to be a problem bird. He was supposedly a biter, and yet he doesn't bite. He doesn't scream, either. (in contrast, another umbie had to be removed from the 'aviary' so the rescue owner and I could talk in there!) The only reason I'm considering fostering him is because he may do better in more of a "pet" situation than an "aviary" situation. I've never met him before and he happily cuddled against my chest and put his head next to my neck. He seems to be the cockatoo that you could pass off to any stranger and would happily accept attention. (the "dream cockatoo")

Thomas is missing toes on *both* feet (same toe on each foot - inner back toe), there's speculation that someone tried to tattoo his keel bone and he might have lived in something like an auto-shop. He apparently had a lot of black gunk coming off of him and out of his nose.

(no, he does not compare to Folger in any way, behaviorally!)

Feather wise, he's similar to the photos of the sulfur 'too on this page, but worse. (the feathers on his body and tail are raggedy, but his head feathers are actually in good shape)

In Memory - Rainbow Bridge

(well, kind of similar to this M2 actually http://www.deeshaven.com/siteimages/Angel.jpg )


I did take a camera, but I didn't take any photos! :rolleyes:


I am kind of intrigued though by Casey, another 'too also at the rescue. The rescue isn't sure what Casey is, but she(?) looks like a citron x galah hybrid to me - huge head, tiny body! (she looks like a little white plucked chicken! except for her head! she's an over-preener/barberer)


It wont be until July at the earliest though if I do decide about bringing in another bird, foster or not. I've already turned down one free bird, cage and all! (last I checked, that bird no longer requires rehoming! owner decided to keep him, not that he wanted to give up his feathered companion anyway! was more of a "worst case scenario")
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #15
Is Folger trainable... absolutely and in the thought of training, he does not need much help with anything. He steps up perfectly for Victoria. She opens the door and he all but jumps into her arms. What would target training do for a bird that is so responsive and so eager to please his primary caregiver.

As for a stick or such... I can give Folger treats... guess what he does with them?? What would a normal bird do? Or even a problem bird do? Eat them maybe? Drop them maybe?? He literally takes the treat and beats the crap out of it and then throws it at me. And that includes his absolute favorite treats. He will not eat them even if he sees me put them in his bowl, he will grab them and throw them back. If Victoria picks up that same treat, he happily takes it and eats it like a good little bird.

Training is not the issue, you need to see the bigger picture. Folger's issue is not about training, he is a sweetheart and very responsive for Victoria. he will do anything asked of him, even let him put a sock buddy on him. All without a single bite. Folger's issue is deep seeded emotional issues from trauma, you are essentially suggesting a war vet just take a sleeping pill to help get thru the night. You can target train Folger to your heart's content, that will not remove his intense fear of being taken away from Victoria. He is not a bird with 'aggressive behavior' in the sense that any type of target training will fix. He is emotionally damaged from being physically abused... emotionally damaged from being locked in dark closets for years... emotionally damaged from being isolated... emotionally damaged from being torn from what homes he has known. This bird has been in at least 8 homes - he has LOST at least 8 homes... he spent 6 years in a shelter. Imagine you spending 6 years in prison, 6 years in near solitary confinement. What type of emotional damage do you think you would come away with? Do you think that simple therapy would solve the problems that your tortured mind and soul is suffering from??

And the even bigger picture... he does not care about positive reinforcement from me or from anyone except Victoria. She is the only person he will respond to. For whatever she represents to him or if he just knew from the moment they met that he had met the guardian angel he had been waiting years for, she is the only person he will work with.

I will continue to try, this is not something we are just shrugging and giving up on, but this is not something that we can do on our terms or our schedule. Folger may take years to have the confidence and security in his home and place with us. We are okay with that, we accepted Folger from day 1 knowing what we were walking into. It is much like adopting a special needs child born to a crack addicted mother, there are so many problems and issues, the only thing we have on our side is patience and love. I will continue to offer him treats, I will continue to talk to him and laugh at his silly comments. I will continue all the positive interaction we already have. I believe there will come a day when he is ready to take the step to trusting me enough that I won't tear him away from the happy home and life he has with Victoria.

In the meantime, I appreciate the time you took to type your message, but again, I do not think you can understand the extensive emotional damage done to Folger. He has been in the excellent care of a shelter that rehabs birds on an almost daily basis. They have placed many many birds that were believed to be beyond hope. Folger was one they thought would be with them for the long run. Again, appreciate your time, but Folger is not a case you can read up on from internet articles and suggestions of what other people have done with your average bird that has been mistreated. Folger's situation was so extreme, the shelter owners drove from NY to across Michigan to remove him from the situation he was in at the last stop 6+ years ago. And the irony, that was not the worst situation or abuse he had suffered in his life.

And we do not think we have all the answers, we know we don't... but we only know that we are working on Folger's schedule and he will let us know when he is ready to take the next step. For now he is a very happy, active and loving bird for Victoria. The progress made in his barely month with us is amazing, well with Victoria I should say :)
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
Media
2
43
Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
My line of thought is that if Folger has some new behaviors trained into him, then it may make it easier for other people to work with him when Victoria isn't around or is busy and can't be there to correct his unwanted behavior. Socializing him will also help him become a more well rounded bird because he may come to enjoy interaction with other people - thus less likely to be aggressive when other people are around besides his human, whether she is there or not.

I wonder if Victoria started the training so he got some good basic behaviors down, then someone else cued the same behaviors but Victoria rewarded him if he might still find that interaction enjoyable.


I'm suggesting training as a way to help him. It gives him something to do. It gives him direction. It can be used to help him get over fears. I also wonder if Folger might benefit from going places and running errands with Victoria.
 
OP
jenphilly

jenphilly

Active member
Oct 15, 2013
1,950
23
Lehigh Valley, PA
Parrots
BE2 (Ivory), B&G Macaw (Max), Budgie Group,
Granbirds- tiels; GCC (Monkey & Monster); Sun Conure (Loki); Bare Eyed Too (Folger); Evil Green Monster YNA (Kelly); B&G (Titan)
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #17
I completely understand your thoughts on training... and we will get to that point, but for now, his sense of security and stability is far more important. Forcing him into training because it suits our needs is not in his best interest right now. Maybe think of it as a hurtful or painful heartbreak you've had in a relationship. Tho it might make sense to just jump back into the dating game tomorrow, you need time to heal and be ready to take on that task. Same for Folger... he has healing he needs to do before we can do more training then what Victoria is doing with him now. Its not fair to him to make demands he cannot fulfill without stressing him out.

Post in a year and ask me how training is going... we will be much more open and receptive to training suggestions, and probably already in the process of the normal training activities :) For now, its all about nursing and healing deep wounds. Everything else will come in time.

Cockatoos are not birds for everyone... they are very emotional, sensitive and needy birds. And each one is different and we need to respect their needs and the pace they need to progress at.

And for your thought of Folger going on errands... when the PA weather allows for that, it is already on the agenda to teach Folger that going into a carrier and driving in the car does not mean he is being left anywhere. I actually took videos today of us goofing around and playing his favorite music and being silly with him on the drive to the vet. I will be posting them shortly in the too section :)
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
Media
2
43
Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
Sounds like a great plan! :D
 

Betrisher

Well-known member
Jun 3, 2013
4,253
177
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Parrots
Dominic: Galah(RIP: 1981-2018); The Lovies: Four Blue Masked Lovebirds; Barney and Madge (The Beaks): Alexandrines; Miss Rosetta Stone: Little Corella
When our Dominic first arrived, he exhibited behaviour rather like Folger's. He would fly at me screeching and hat raised, bound and determined to relieve me of a pound of flesh. He doesn't do the flying thing any more (thank goodness) and is pretty much OK with me these days. I still can't trust him completely as he will bite and twist competely without warning. My daughter is a different story. She's in very real danger of a flying attack and must always be wary when Dom's around. She's learned to just stand still when he lands on her, arms over her head to protect her face, and screeching for assistance. When he's in 'that' kind of mood, it's pointless for me to go anywhere near him or he'll bite. Only the boys can handle him. They just remove him and place him back on top of his fridge, where he generally calms down right away.

The way I got to be 'OK' with Dominic was simply to sit on the opposite side of the table from my husband (whom he loves) and wait. It took months before he grew used enough to that set-up to stop rushing over to bite me, but we persisted and the behaviour stopped. All I did was to calmly remove my hands from the table as he ran to bite me. Then, I'd put them back when he moved back toward my husband. We found that noise and shouting really jacked up Dom's aggro level, so everything had to be done in undertones. I can tell you, I scored quite a few mean bites and bruises during that time. I've still got the scars!

As Dom calmed down in my presence, I began offering him treats. Like Folger, he would hurl them away from him in disdain (which we found hilariously funny). What changed things was Dommie watching the Beaks take treats from me. Having the Beaks as role models has helped Dom in many ways and I do think food jealousy was most useful. :D What I would do is feed treats to the Beaks during training (usually done on the kitchen table), in full view of Dom up on his fridge. He would watch closely and knew full-well I had sunflower seeds in my hand. Every now and again, I'd offer him one and he'd chuck it away. Then, one day, he just ate it! After that, I could offer him a treat in the Beaks' presence and he'd accept it from me. Not at other times, though. He'd chuck it. But over time, we've reached the point where Dom is more than happy to have treats from me and will take them nicely with his bill and eat them from his foot. This has all taken over a year of patient working and many bites.

One day, I was alone in the quiet kitchen with Dom. The radio was playing softly and I was feeling positive. I offered him my hand and he stepped up without biting me! I just sat there, too scared to move. I knew I was going to be bitten, but I was so stoked that he trusted me enough to step up, I didn't want to end the moment. Eventually, my arm grew tired and began to tremble. That's when he bit me and it was a beauty! Blood flowed and a big bruise came out. But I was ecstatic! I began to keep trying to get Dom to step up nicely. It was so much easier when we were alone with no noise and no other birds or animals or people there. Gradually, the step ups grew more frequent and the bites grew less.. I can't say Dom doesn't bite any more. He does! But I can handle him if need be and he even seems to get some enjoyment from my company. Until my husband shows up. Then, I immediately transmogrify into chopped liver. Or worse. He doesn't bite me, just leaves to go straight to my husband. Of course, I don't mind that one bit. I think Dom (who grew up loved by and loving my Dad) just needs my husband for his security.

Where we're at now is that Dom's fine with most of us. Not Ellie, though. We wonder if it's her red hair (of which she has a lot) that offends him. He still chases after her viciously as he used to chase me and occasionally flies onto her back if she's in the kitchen and goes straight for the tops of her ears. Ell isn't as brave as me, so she's not prepared to sit and be bitten for Dommie's sake. She brings him treats all the time and tells him she loves him and admires his lovely big wings and gorgeous hat - but he hates her with a passion!

The thing is, Dom is learning new things and trying things out every day. Just this morning, he called to Matt and me from his fridge: we were standing near the front door and he seemed to want us for some reason. He took flight and got as far as the doorway out of the lounge room when his courage deserted him and he turned back to land on top of a bookshelf. This is enormously encouraging, as it means he's gaining confidence in his wings and his ability to steer himself around obstacles. He's also curious about the house and wants to find out more. Hooray!

These damaged birds are absolutely behind zero when we get them. They have to relearn everything since chickhood as well as unlearning the habits formed by neglect and abuse. I think your attitude to Folger is exactly what he needs and if anyone can rehabilitate him, you guys can. There are times when a well-meaning pat or treat results in a filthy hard bite. At those moments, it's so hard to remember not to take it personally - but I think you're in the right place and can overcome those moments. Just persevere. It will take months and months, but I really believe Folger will get there eventually.

About the towel. I honestly wouldn't use it unless it's really a matter of human safety. It's such a deal-breaker with this bird if, as you say, a towel was used to terrorise him. As soon as you associate yourself with the towel in his mind, you're a terrorist to him. Why not try using a newspaper or some other barrier that doesn't have dreadful associations for Folger? I'm imagining a fishing net with the net replaced by bird wire (sort of like a gigantic tennis racquet). If Folger flies at you, you could hold that between yourself and him, giving him something to land on that has a long handle so you can put him down safely without ever coming in contact with The Beak. Just a thought, though.

In the end, the clever ideas will have to come from you as only you know the bird and what moves him. I'm glad he found his way to your home as it takes a special family to even own a bird like him. I have every faith you guys will find a way forward with Folger and help him find his inner bird in the end. Bless you all! :)
 

riddick07

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2011
2,106
46
PA
Parrots
Blue & Gold Macaw (Titan) & Yellow Naped Amazon (Kelly)
Folger actually attacks anyone but me. I think people in general remind him of bad times I'm not sure why its just me that doesn't but he doesn't tolerate others very well. It's not just my mother. He doesn't do the flying attacks anymore it only took the same afternoon this thread was first created to correct the behavior. He doesn't like it when I'm displeased with him and figured out fast that when he didn't fly attack I was happy with him.

Folger actually grabs perches and pushes it around if you try to use it to step up or any other reason and kind of gives you the want you gonna do now look (complete with imaginary eyebrow raise):rolleyes: It's actually really funny:D Who knew birds were so strong:p

Folger isn't scared of the towel he just isn't fond. I don't think I've met a bird that loves the towel! I usually wrap him in one after a bath and he doesn't mind. Will actually sit under it to dry off.

Folger gets away just fine with his clipped wings. Displayed by bath time yesterday where he decided he didn't want to corporate and I had to fetch him from the other side of the living room after he flew through the kitchen and then scrambled under the couch. Where he proceeded to stick his tongue out at me.
 

Most Reactions

Latest posts

Top