my sweetheart is a monster in disguise! :(

This is aFB message I just sent to my breeder. I wanted to share it here to see if any of you have aNY ideas?

Hello Debbie! I was hoping to get your opinion on something. For the whole time I have had Pumpkin I usually take him out around town with me to meet new people because I want him to be well socialized. Tyler is starting to for a bond with him and Pumpkin is learning to trust him. I always give strangers a treat for him so he sees meeting new people as a positive experience.

The problem is that Pumpkin has decided he really hates my mom. She told me that when I went out of town and she was watching him that he bit her.

But today I actually saw him bite her and it was not a normal bite and release. Pumpkin flew down to her shoulder and was sitting there chatting away. He seemed fine. But when she reached up to ask him to step up, he charged at her screaming and flapping his wings. He bit down onto her finger and would not let go. I have NEVER seen him so upset and it didn't look to me that my mom did anything wrong.

My question is how do I rectify this problem? Can I have my mom try feeding him treats or move slower and announce when she's going to move before she moves? Maybe she startled him? Maybe he hates her perfume (I do)?

Any ideas? Have you seen this before? What can I try?

Many times.

And we are about to open up another can of worms here... folks are not going to like my "Mr. Towel" answer. BUT IT WORKS!

He can be as opinionated as he wants. But when he goes into attack mode, a line is drawn in the sand. Another bird wouldn't sit there and let a puny conure chase him off. He needs to learn his place in the flock.

At his size, a thick face towel will do nicely. The next time he "charges" mom, Mom throws the towel over him, and wraps him up all snug like a birdie burrito, and flips him over onto his back. (Where he is 100% vulnerable, and 100% sure there is nothing he can do about it.) Two fingers controls that little conure beak. So two fingers over the beak, and the command "no biting."

He doesn't get to stop being a birdie burrito until he is calm. Then mom set him down and praises him for being "better." Then rewards him with a favorite treat.

Which he better take without biting, or he ends up a birdie burrito again!

YOU PROBABLY WON'T HAVE TO DO THIS ONE TWICE!!!

P.S. "Haters gonna hate!" I know it's controversial. I'm old school. I know there are plenty of people who disagree with this advice. Like it or not, I know for a fact this one works... (Toweling a bird doesn't hurt it, or how would you groom them, and every avian vet would be a bird abuser... so there is that!) NO, THE BIRD ISN'T GONNA LIKE IT! He's not supposed to like it. He doesn't have to like it. He has to stop attacking people!!! You're not the one in charge little bird. And four other little words: "Conure spoiled bird syndrome." THESE BEHAVIORS GET OUT OF HAND REAL FAST IF YOU DON'T NIP THEM IN THE BUD WHEN THEY START...

If you don't like my advice. Just give some of your own. Get opposing opinions out there for all to see. There is no one right answer. You try things until you find one your bird responds to.

Yeah, I've dealt with this one a few times...

Gosh! Will this work on a Macaw? Because I'm sure going to try it, when Storm goes into one of her mean modes. I'm diabetic and the last bite from her took about two months to heal.

Mine likes it. She thinks she gets to be "the baby" when we wrap her up and put her on her back.

As an "old school gal" I completely agree with Mark.

LadiDy said:

Gosh! Will this work on a Macaw? Because I'm sure going to try it, when Storm goes into one of her mean modes. I'm diabetic and the last bite from her took about two months to heal.

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I used to work with "the biters." And the reason I used to work with the biters, is (1) they generally didn't bite me anyway, for some reason, but (2) if they tried it, I didn't just sit there and let them bite me. I did something about it, and they stopped biting almost immediately...

I've used it with macaws. You're gonna need a bigger towel...

With a macaw, I generally just put them on the floor. Repeatedly if necessary.

And the thing is, you only have to do this ONE TIME, MAYBE TWICE. After that all you have to do is get out the towel and show it to them...

ARE YOU GONNA BEHAVE?! OR DO I HAVE TO GET MY TOWEL... YOU BE NICE!!!

Firm. Immediate. Then immediate praise when they're good. REWARD THE GOOD...

With a macaw, if he's a running around on the floor chasing people kind of bird, a couch cushion, down on the floor at eye level so that it is an object that is bigger than him, meeting him head on, and backing his little butt up also acts as an effective deterrent. The chaser becomes the chased... suddenly, he's not the big bad bird anymore. In fact, that's pretty much what we call an "attitude adjustment." It doesn't hurt him. It doesn't affect trust. MOST OF ALL, IT'S A TRIGGERED RESPONSE TO HIS ACTION. You don't wanna do that, cuz she'll get mad and come after you...

POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT IS FINE, BUT MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT REINFORCE BAD BEHAVIORS OR YOU'RE TEACHING THEM TO DO WHAT YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO DO!!!

I've said it before, the worst advice ever is the phrase "Ignore the bites!"

If you ignore the bites, the bird DOESN'T LEARN NOT TO BITE YOU... HE THINKS IT'S OKAY. HE'LL KEEP DOING IT!!!

What you don't do, is let the bird think he can get the upper hand by biting you. You don't let him know you're afraid of being bit. BUT YOU REACT THE SECOND HE STARTS APPLYING TOO MUCH BITE PRESSURE, AND YOU LET HIM KNOW IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS YOU DO NOT LIKE THAT... that is the whole basis of bite pressure training a bird. If you don't do that, the bird accidentally injures you because he doesn't know how much bite pressure he can apply safely...

LadiDy said:

Gosh! Will this work on a Macaw? Because I'm sure going to try it, when Storm goes into one of her mean modes. I'm diabetic and the last bite from her took about two months to heal.

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Yikes with your health concerns this is a must. My father was diabetic and wounds can be scary trouble.

On a side note I used to make up a concoction for him called "people paste" it is equal parts powdered Slippery Elm, powdered Golden Seal and powdered Myrrh then you can use a little honey or water to make a paste of the powder it will close a wound super fast and really works. The honey works best and holds together better. He had an injury to his toe that was very serious I gave him that and it healed up perfectly. He called it my "witch doctor brew" LOL You can find all those ingredients on line quite easily. (Disclaimer...I am not a doctor but I love old home remedies and I have seen with my own eyes what this combo is capable of, truly amazing!)

I also used it on a friend who was a quad with a terrible bed sore that wouldn't heal no matter what the doctors used, a few days of this and it finally closed and in a few weeks healed over. I should add that on a deep wound you must wash it off and apply new mix and new bandage daily.

thekarens said:

Mine likes it. She thinks she gets to be "the baby" when we wrap her up and put her on her back.

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HA! I THINK THE WORST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO TO ZOE IS TO FORCE HER TO REMAIN UPRIGHT... There's your Punishment... no, you're not going to roll over on my lap. You're in time out! You have to sit there until I tell you it's okay to flop over in a pile of mush...

Your comment was on target - if a bird is being charged by another, he's not going to take it. Well said.

Mark I am with you there. It is one thing to use positive reinforcement in a casual, no big deal situation where nobody's gonna get hurt and there are oodles of time to work with the bird. It's naw other thing entirely when a bird thinks he can charge you like that and gets "rewarded" by having you back down. I like the new school techniques, but there are absolutely certain times when Mr. Towel needs to make an appearance, for the safety of everyone involved, including the bird who may very well end up homeless one day if he turns into the devil because he thinks it will make the annoying humans back off. There has to be a level of common sense involved there.

Thank you Mark, as always you are so very very helpful I will try this immediately! I would never rehome him. I got him at 3 months old, so any problems he develops are 100% my fault. I had no idea he acted this way with her and I feel terrible!! The side of him I saw today was completely unaceptable. I scooped him up before he knew what was happening and got him away from her and back in his cage. I'm so glad I have a plan of attack now. My mom thankfully is more than willing to help me work on this behavior. Because he doesn't act this way toward me.

I 100% agree with Mark. Positive reinforcement is great. Positive reinforcement for positive behaviors PAIRED WITh consequences for negative behaviors is even better. You know how everyone says parrots are as smart as a toddler? Well, what would you do if your toddler was running wild? Hopefully not just ignore the bad behavior! You'd give them a time out, a stern warning, restrain them gently if they were throwing a tantrum.... Same goes for your bird. You don't have to hit, squirt or otherwise traumatize your bird to implement consequences for bad behavior. They do best with a constant stream of "feedback" on how their behaving.

Kiwi I think that's why he doesn't act this way for me. I have pressure trained him and maintain a balance between positive and negative reinforcement depending on Pumpkins attitude. He is a complete sweetheart to me, that's why this came as such a shock!!

I'm with the towel. My GCC, Booger loves his. We call it his hanky. He gets all excited when we ask him if he wants to be a Booger in a hanky. He settles into it and gets all sleepy. If he cops an attitude all we have to do is break out the hanky and we're good again.

I would actually like to see a towel used on a bird, to see how its done. I have never had to use one on angel, because she has always been very sweet.

But i would really like to see a video. Birdman you happen to ever video yourself teaching a macaw a lesson like this? Like how do you grab then with a towel? Is it just putting the towel around your hands and grabbing them with it? That is what i would imagine, but i have only read about it never seen.

My GCC is a rescue and can be really aggressive/moody. All I have to do is show him the towel now and he IMMEDIATELY stops his behavior.

jasper19 said:

I would actually like to see a towel used on a bird, to see how its done. I have never had to use one on angel, because she has always been very sweet.

But i would really like to see a video. Birdman you happen to ever video yourself teaching a macaw a lesson like this? Like how do you grab then with a towel? Is it just putting the towel around your hands and grabbing them with it? That is what i would imagine, but i have only read about it never seen.

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It's the same way you towel them for grooming. You throw the towel over the top of them, gently get the back of the neck, and then wrap it around them with just the head sticking out. Preferably with as little drama as possible.

http://www.avianwelfare.org/shelters/pdf/NBD_shelters_parrots.pdf

Here's a greenwing all wrapped up like a towel mummy:

Practice Makes Perfect When It Comes to Bird Towel Restraint

The biggest thing is to hold the bird gently behind the head, flip him on his back and do not put pressure on the air sacs.

So an update. It may be because of his current molt, maybe reaching maturity? I'm not sure, but he has started biting me when I try to put him down. It doesn't matter if I'm trying to put him down in his play top or his gym or in either of his cages, he cries out and refuses to let go of my finger and reaches down to bite/hold on with his beak. If I stop trying to get him to step off my hand then he's perfectly fine, but he can't think he gets to make those decisions. I'm not sure how to go about solving this. Or what the problem really is.

the problem is he doesn't want to get down....

You need to make him get down, and ideally you teach the bird to step "down" ...just like when you say step up. Then give a peanut when the bird steps down. At first you will just have to make sure when your putting them down, its in a way where they have no other option. Like the angle you come at the perch should be so their front is directly by it, and your hand is like underneath it? So then when you move them near it they dont really have an option but to step on to perch. Then you give peanut.

Not sure if i explained that well. But no you are correct you don't want the bird dictating when it gets to step up/down

Also, of course replace "peanut" with whatever treat the bird likes.

Well it's obvious he doesn't want to get down lol but why? I spend hours with him he goes shopping with me and to visit family. He rides around on my shoulder all day. It's not like he's neglected and starved for attention.

I usually grab him around his back so his feet and beak are facing away from me and I place his feet on a perch. That's the only way I can do it without getting bit. But I don't want him to start vein me holding him like that as negative. I'd like him to step down willingly. Even when I do it properly by putting the perch up to his tummy to step up and coax him by gently pushing him to step up but he just holds tighter and turns to bite.