keeping birds below your head?????

So when I had to rehome my GCC I gave him to a woman who said she had worked 10 years at a bird rehabilitation center. She now owns 4 GCC's but she said one thing that confused me a LOT. she said to make sure your bird doesn't go above your head which is understandable for other animals but birds?? she says its to make sure they know whose boss but i didn't believe her. also her story that she worked 10 years at a rehabilitation center is fishy but regardless she's a good bird owner and has like 3 different food mixes for them each with like 50 ingredients she makes herself. but have any of you heard of this before?

I've heard of this on old parrot books. Don't know if works or not. I have hoops and play stands higher than me, they seem fine

I have read this too - but suspect that like many other bits of “parrot knowledge”, it could be a bit outdated. My 5 birds are frequently higher than my head and I haven’t seen any “bossy” behavior that comes from it. I expect the same behavior from my birds regardless of where they are occupying space - and have negotiated my boundaries which they usually respect

AutumnBreeze said:

she said to make sure your bird doesn't go above your head which is understandable for other animals but birds?? she says its to make sure they know whose boss but i didn't believe her.

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The old no shoulder above your head rule. Two main and valid reasons why people will tell you keep your bird off your shoulder, or above your head is?

First you can’t see your parrot’s body language. While you might know his moods really well, it’s hard to act appropriately if you can’t see his body language.

Second your bird is very close to your face. Any small aggression on the bird’s part carries with it a small chance of disproportionately serious injury.


Misconceptions about why you shouldn’t let your bird on your shoulder, or above you:

First is birds who are placed in a higher position than you, think they are dominant to you. Dominance theory is based on observed canine behavior. Parrots in the wild don’t follow a social hierarchy based on dominance. Parrots prefer higher places because that’s where they feel safer, not because they want to assert status.

Second is birds who are on your shoulder will bite you. I don’t think shouldered birds are any more likely to bite; the problem is that you can’t react and effectively avoid the bite if you can’t see the warning signs. If you have a bitey, unpredictable bird, don’t let him on your shoulder period. Not because he might start thinking he’s higher than you in the social pecking order, but because you might get hurt. It’s really just that straightforward.

My take on it and work with rescue birds, including raptors and training birds and own birds for over 25 years.

The parrot is allowed on your shoulder only if it readily steps onto on your hand when requested, such as with the “Up” command. (A bird that “attacks” your hand sure not be allow to stay, or even go on the shoulder should not be allowed there period if aggressive.) Same rule applies if you request your bird off your shoulder and they don't step down on command. Shoulder is a privilege that has to be earned.

The shoulder, more so than any other perch spot, must be treated with respect; after all, your face is at stake. If your parrot respects that it can be there only when you allow it (and not by running up your arm and putting up a fight when you ask him, or her to step off).

Yup an old wives tales based on some common sense, but cows-maure as a whole.

Truly great information and advise provided above.

One of the greatest problems with advise is that the sentences just before and just after the 'Punch Line' are either not heard, remembered, or provided.

I don't think this is totally true, but I will say that my bird knows she has the advantage when she is up high, so if I want to get her and she is resistant, it is easier for me to be taller than her (due to reach etc)---reaching up, it harder and I do think they know it, but I don't think it is a dominance thing.
I do agree, no shoulder unless earned and if you tell a bird to step off your shoulder, do not play some sort of game of tag. Make sure you follow through, even if it means backing gently up against a wall or chair-back(don't squish them) in order for them to step down.

noodles123 said:

I don't think this is totally true, but I will say that my bird knows she has the advantage when she is up high, so if I want to get her and she is resistant, it is easier for me to be taller than her (due to reach etc)---reaching up, it harder and I do think they know it, but I don't think it is a dominance thing.
I do agree, no shoulder unless earned and if you tell a bird to step off your shoulder, do not play some sort of game of tag. Make sure you follow through, even if it means backing gently up against a wall or chair-back(don't squish them) in order for them to step down.

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They are intelligent. They find ways to avoid doing what they don't want to do? My female umbrella cockatoo use to hang off of me to avoid going back in cage at night. Once she realized that didn't work, she would run up my shoulder and go behind me for a while. That didn't work. Found that she hated the old cage, she would only go in it on her own to eat and come right back out and stay perch on the door while eating. The new much larger cage she goes in with zero issues and will even go in on her own when she wants to now.

I would say that there is some truth to this, but only because the exact opposite of this rule is absolutely true, meaning that parrots specifically absolutely HATE being on the floor, as they are the lowest thing in the room and they lose any feeling of "dominance" or being in-control of the situation. So there is some truth in that the higher up parrots are, the more in-control they feel...And as already mentioned, depending on the type of parrot, you don't want them on your head anyway because you can't see what they're doing, and more importantly you cannot read any warning-signs that they might be giving you...specifically the ones they give right before they bite!

Obviously this doesn't apply to "ground birds", that's a whole other way of thinking entirely, but this doesn't apply to the Psittacines...

Something I will add is that as far as the old "Don't let a parrot on your head because this give them a feeling of dominance" rule goes, I do have to say that this is actually true with certain, individual parrots. It's not unusual for parrot to seemingly change their attitude when they are the highest thing in the room, as I've observed this with lots of different parrots over the years, not all, but a good number...However, I personally think a lot of that sudden feeling of "dominance" that certain parrots do display when they are up high or are the highest thing/living thing in the room has to do with the fact that normally, in the wild, they are ALWAYS up higher than most other living creatures...So it only makes sense that when they're inside all the time, when they're in a position when they are up-high and the highest creature in the room, this is going to give them a feeling of superiority, like they are up in a tree like they would be naturally in the wild...

I think birds (all flying ones, at least) seek the highest level available because they are prey animals and have evolved to seek protection in the heights. I'd bet money that most of the birds connected to our forum roost on the highest available perch in the their cages.

I don't know where the theory of a bird feeling 'dominant' came from. My birds don't dominate me, but they all love to get up on top of the bookshelves or the fridge and just chill there (no pun intended). You only have to look at them to know for certain that birds just love being up high. Dommie used to raise his hat, extend his wings and virtually sing for the joy of being up high! Rosetta does something very similar, now that she's found she can alight on top of my quilting cupboard. I think they feel a real sense of well-being up high, just as they feel vulnerable on the ground.

Answering my own question: pecking order! A Norwegian bloke proposed the theory of 'Pecking Order' in the 1920s. He observed domestic chickens seemed to show a hierarchy of dominance based on which chook had the strongest peck. Naturally, the dominant rooster held the top spot and a complicated hierarchy tumbled down from him.

Thing is, Schjelderup-Ebbe studied chickens. Their social hierarchies are not really similar to those of other birds (like parrots or albatrosses or moorhens etc). I don't think it's reasonable to ascribe the dominance theory to other species because the entire social set-ups are so variable. Other forces are at play, notably predator-avoidance, foraging, water discovery, roosting (communal or otherwise) and so on.

Bird behaviour is a fascinating area of study and we still know so little about why birds do what they do. Researchers like Tinbergen and Lorenz kept the ball rolling and made some flabbergasting discoveries in the 1930s, notably the complex courtship rituals of seagulls and the responses of capercaillie chicks to a silhouette of a hawk/goose suspended above them.

I'm aware of plenty of behavioural studies being conducted on various sea birds and endangered species, but AFAIA not many people are really delving into the reason parrots do stuff. My own observations of wild flocks would suggest that parrots *don't* involve a dominance hierarchy, but depend more on pair-bonding for security and confidence. I'd love to hear of any studies that might confirm or dispel that idea.

Sorry for the essay. I hope you can tell this is a subject dear to my heart and I would *so* love to hear of other people's observations as well.

I don't have issues with my tame birds above my head. As long as they are tame and trustworthy, all is well. In fact, some of them buzz my head while flying from one part of the room to the other. Kind of see it as a dominant behavior even though it is clearly done as fun.

I heard of that years ago. The old adage is that YOU should look DOWN apon the parrot. That will show them you are the "alpha male" or "the BOSS"..Don't know if it is true or a bunch of who-ha if you ask me.



Jim

I think that it's absolutely true. Nike has a hanging boing in the corner of the living room. Normally I can walk up to it and get her to step up but maybe 10% of the time she doesn't want to go. What I have to do is get a stool and step on it which brings my head higher than she is and she usually steps right up.

1) teach bird you love bird

the end.

Thats all you need. I don't care, they don't care, we are a family and a flock.

If some civil war broke out in the house it wouldn't last long with the "time out" method.

(although "time out" method only works once you have trust and have bonded).

Anything about elevation might be valid for them wanting to maybe stay put, but then go get a treat...the will hop down onto you so fast you will "think" they are attacking.

bill_e said:

I think that it's absolutely true. Nike has a hanging boing in the corner of the living room. Normally I can walk up to it and get her to step up but maybe 10% of the time she doesn't want to go. What I have to do is get a stool and step on it which brings my head higher than she is and she usually steps right up.

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I agree with the fact that they step up more easily when they are lower than you, but I don't think it is a matter of dominance, so much as knowing when to "fold"....Noodles knows that she has the advantage when she is above me--much like a 5 year old in a tree-house. I don't think it is a matter of them thinking they are superior, so much as them sizing up the situation in conjunction with their own desires.

noodles123 said:

bill_e said:

I think that it's absolutely true. Nike has a hanging boing in the corner of the living room. Normally I can walk up to it and get her to step up but maybe 10% of the time she doesn't want to go. What I have to do is get a stool and step on it which brings my head higher than she is and she usually steps right up.

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I agree with the fact that they step up more easily when they are lower than you, but I don't think it is a matter of dominance, so much as knowing when to "fold"....Noodles knows that she has the advantage when she is above me--much like a 5 year old in a tree-house. I don't think it is a matter of them thinking they are superior, so much as them sizing up the situation in conjunction with their own desires.

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Pretty much Exactly.

noodles123 said:

bill_e said:

I think that it's absolutely true. Nike has a hanging boing in the corner of the living room. Normally I can walk up to it and get her to step up but maybe 10% of the time she doesn't want to go. What I have to do is get a stool and step on it which brings my head higher than she is and she usually steps right up.

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I agree with the fact that they step up more easily when they are lower than you, but I don't think it is a matter of dominance, so much as knowing when to "fold"....Noodles knows that she has the advantage when she is above me--much like a 5 year old in a tree-house. I don't think it is a matter of them thinking they are superior, so much as them sizing up the situation in conjunction with their own desires.

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Sorry to disagree but when an animal "folds" it is relinquishing its position of dominance...there's no elaborate human like thought process going on. Nike knows she has to step up even though she doesn't want to because I'm the dominant one at that moment in time.

bill_e said:

noodles123 said:

bill_e said:

I think that it's absolutely true. Nike has a hanging boing in the corner of the living room. Normally I can walk up to it and get her to step up but maybe 10% of the time she doesn't want to go. What I have to do is get a stool and step on it which brings my head higher than she is and she usually steps right up.

Click to expand...

I agree with the fact that they step up more easily when they are lower than you, but I don't think it is a matter of dominance, so much as knowing when to "fold"....Noodles knows that she has the advantage when she is above me--much like a 5 year old in a tree-house. I don't think it is a matter of them thinking they are superior, so much as them sizing up the situation in conjunction with their own desires.

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Sorry to disagree but when an animal "folds" it is relinquishing its position of dominance...there's no elaborate human like thought process going on. Nike knows she has to step up even though she doesn't want to because I'm the dominant one at that moment in time.

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I suppose it is a matter of how the term is interpreted. I think the same could be said of humans, but we don't need to be aggressive or pushy to assert ourselves..I guess that is where I take issue--so many people interpret dominance as authoritarian, and that is simply not the case.