Maybe I should just let him hate me?

So I have a 9 year old GCC. I have had him since he was a year old. For the first year, he was a super cuddly little love. Then, hormones hit and he turned into a raging monster who hated my guts. I knew he was hormonal, so I "backed off" per say. He constantly wanted to bite and didn't want to be picked up, so I took that as he was just wanted to be left alone while he raged. I expected after a year or two the hormones would mellow out.

But now he's 9, and nothing has changed.

Everyone but me can touch him. Sometimes he gets grumpy with other people, but not all the time. I get anywhere near him and it's just the worst thing in the world for him. He spends all day angrily puffed up in his cage. He's been to the vet several times and nothing is wrong with him. I have never done anything to harm him or scare him.

I have tried restarting with him. I have tried using a perch to take him out, but all it does it makes him even angrier and causes him to want to attack me.

I have tried using positive reinforcement with his favorite treats, but he refuses to take food from me. Even if I don't offer it with my fingers and put it down for him to pick up on his own, he won't do it.

I tried clicker training, he ignores me completely.

He never wants out of his cage. Even if I keep the door open he just broods in the corner and glares at anyone in the room. He has lots of toys, and he does play with them.

There are very random and not often moments where he is totally fine. He will step up and come out, but only for brief moments before he gets nasty again and attacks me.

I have tried hemp seeds and chamomile and Avian Calm to see if that helps...nope.

Took his happy hut out of his cage. Nope.

I make sure he gets enough sleep at night, even tried giving him more sleep time, but no improvement either.

The very last thing I tried was showing him whose boss. When he tried biting I would grab him and put him down against a surface and hold him there and tell him NO BITING. That didn't work either.

I have tried other things as well, things I have read on here, but nothing seems to get through with him. I don't want to re-home him, but I'm thinking maybe I just need to accept that he hates me and just wants to be left alone.

Speed training is not often had with many birds. It's a long drawn out, day by day thing and can take weeks, months and sometimes years. Especially if you don't follow a very regular schedule. Let the bird rest as you study up on different people and their birds training for trust and stick training. Use the search window in youtube.com and type in manda & rio or AnimalWonders Montana or wingsNpaws or Victoria Ryan and look through their video's; paying close attention to their descriptions. The clicker is an optional device to the stick training but it's use is quick and a positive plus. Speed of accomplishment isn't the goal, consistency of outcome "IS". Treats can be given on a spoon for personal safety. A perch should be mounted on the doors inside, too. Searching the forums and topics here is a plus, but seeing and hearing a video is more informative to your self. Make 10 different posts and pm me later. jh

Watch these for starters. [ame="https://youtu.be/fRneaq9JXvM , https://youtu.be/FkD2HBXScAU , https://youtu.be/QTOvzbRGypU , https://youtu.be/CiQTePrIhlw"]Error 400 (Bad Request)!!1[/ame] .
Watch a few times and think of how to adapt to you, your bird and situation. Let us know. jh

Green cheeks are notorious for being nippy in general after maturity! I've seen so many 'gren cheek is biting' threads I lose count.

Letting him be while hormonal is the right choice, however what toys or activities have you provided him to let him take out his rage? They love to chew and need to let out that energy somehow so providing foraging activities or target training may help.

Did you do any long body stoking when he was a baby? As in, dd you ever cuddle closely and stroke him along the back or scratch under his wings when he was young? Just asking because sometimes when birds hit puberty they get frustrated that they are being simulated by pets or strokes and can't mate with a human so they get upset! So we don't recommend ever stroking or pelting a bird lower than the neck.

corkyness said:

So I have a 9 year old GCC. I have had him since he was a year old. For the first year, he was a super cuddly little love. Then, hormones hit and he turned into a raging monster who hated my guts. I knew he was hormonal, so I "backed off" per say. He constantly wanted to bite and didn't want to be picked up, so I took that as he was just wanted to be left alone while he raged. I expected after a year or two the hormones would mellow out.

But now he's 9, and nothing has changed.

Everyone but me can touch him. Sometimes he gets grumpy with other people, but not all the time. I get anywhere near him and it's just the worst thing in the world for him. He spends all day angrily puffed up in his cage...
...
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I have tried other things as well, things I have read on here, but nothing seems to get through with him. I don't want to re-home him, but I'm thinking maybe I just need to accept that he hates me and just wants to be left alone.

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So this has been for seven years now? That is a very sad thing. Thank you for sticking with him! My two little budgies have made it clear from the beginning that I am the Un-popular member of their flock. Far from the same thing, but, I feel for you.

IF by "accept that he hates me and just wants to be left alone," you plan to continue letting him live his best possible life, without pushing his comfort zone too much, and you choose to not let yourself be troubled by his ongoing rebuff, to me that seems like wisdom.

That is what I think you mean?

(However, if by accepting that he "just wants to be left alone," you are contemplating moving him to some area where he gets less interaction with/observation of people, or more loneliness, then I would certainly ask you to please Not do that!)

All the methods I have tried with him I tried for at least 6 months to a year before moving on to a different method.

I did stroke his back and cuddle him in that way when I first got him, I didn't know any better as he was my first bird. Once he started getting hormonal though I did research and stopped back petting.

He has several shreddable toys. I've tried foraging toys but he doesn't have the patience haha he gets frustrated and just starts biting angrily at the foraging toy until he destroys it and gets the treats out. He likes taking things apart, so I have some toys that he gets to work at dissembling.

He lives in the living room right now and I would never isolate him. I don't want to punish him, even though he hates my guts I still see him as my baby boy. I just see so many threads where people say "just keep trying!" but after so many years I just don't know...I feel like he has made up his mind about me and all I am doing is forcing myself on him when he just doesn't like me and he isn't going to change his mind.

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but have you tried target training with him?

If he's too angry to work with outside the cage, just teach him through the cage bars. Point your target stick onto his perch and reward him when he touches it. Move the stick around the cage and have him clambering all over to earn his rewards. This will give him something to think about (ie. working and earning treats) rather than the apparent annoyance of your hands.

Once he's quite used to targetting inside his cage, you could try him very quietly and calmly outside. Only make the sessions very short at first: no more than five minutes. Target him here, there and back again, then target him back into his cage and reward him *heavily*. Try to spend five or ten minutes with him every single day.

It's amazing how quickly a bird will come to look forward to these sessions because everybody wins: you get to have positive time with your bird and he gets a bonanza of yummy treats!

I don't know if targetting is the answer you're looking for, but *do* try it. My corella was *mental* when she first arrived, attacking everyone and biting like a pair of pincers. It was only when I decided to try and distract her by giving her a job to do (targetting) that she even slowed down long enough to listen to me. She's still highly energetic and over-the-top, but at least we can communicate now. I only have to pull out the target stick and she's at attention and waiting anxiously for her first assignment.

I do hope you can have some success with your bird. It's so dispiriting when they can't be the pet we hoped for. I inherited my Dad's Galah and he loathed and despised me for the remaining years of his life while absolutely besotted with the men in the family. He was a damaged personality and it didn't stop me from loving him dearly. Only, I never could enjoy cuddles and scratches with him the way my husband did. It was enough for me to see him healthy and happy at last.

So good luck with your conure. I hope you can find a way to reach him and do, please, let us know all about it. Otherwise, stay in touch and perhaps someone will come up with an answer for you.

corkyness said:

The very last thing I tried was showing him whose boss. When he tried biting I would grab him and put him down against a surface and hold him there and tell him NO BITING. That didn't work either.

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I'm glad this reads like something you did in the past and you have ceased doing. Please don't do this again ever. (Birds don't accept that you're the boss. They are not actually pets. They are small people with wings who are all independent contractors and They are the boss. They may or may not be willing to negotiate, but they don't accept being pushed around.)

corkyness said:

He has several shreddable toys. I've tried foraging toys but he doesn't have the patience haha he gets frustrated and just starts biting angrily at the foraging toy until he destroys it and gets the treats out.

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I'm pretty sure this Counts as Foraging. I occasionally make little origami boxes with treats inside, just for my Sunny to destroy. I could call her "angry" when tearing at them, but I don't think she is. I think she's just excited & having fun.

He likes taking things apart, so I have some toys that he gets to work at dissembling.

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Good, you perceive what he likes to do and are supplying it.

corkyness said:

He lives in the living room right now and I would never isolate him. I don't want to punish him, even though he hates my guts I still see him as my baby boy. I just see so many threads where people say "just keep trying!" but after so many years I just don't know...I feel like he has made up his mind about me and all I am doing is forcing myself on him when he just doesn't like me and he isn't going to change his mind.

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I am glad you still care for him and will Not isolate him. To me after so many years it makes sense to accept who he wants to be and not keep pushing him.

corkyness said:

Everyone but me can touch him. Sometimes he gets grumpy with other people, but not all the time. I get anywhere near him and it's just the worst thing in the world for him. He spends all day angrily puffed up in his cage. He's been to the vet several times and nothing is wrong with him.

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I wonder about this. Well you've had him a while so I'm sure your evaluation is probably correct. But - I don't associate birdies fluffed-up with angry. Usually they mostly do that when they are relaxed (or else feeling cold or unwell & trying to self-comfort, but mostly if relaxed).

It took me a few months with my birdies before I "got" this. Sunny Conure would get all fluffed & noisy & I would think she was agitated but she was actually relaxing.

One day I got a little stuffed bird, for a toy. When I showed it to the budgies they Panicked. So I revealed it to Sunny slowly... and got to see in slow-motion how Bird reacts when going into panic or anger. Really the opposite of a mammal. Feathers All went Smooth. She went Very Still - but Alert. Eyes all wrinkly so she could look any direction. Totally the opposite of fluffed.

Because of this, I started watching more closely how all of them react.

Even for my budgies, puffed up also meant relaxed, Not upset. So now, when I see my birdies puffing up I do my best to fluff myself at them also. Then we all get nice and relaxed. Imitating body language, really good way to get accepted into the flock. (Even if I'm still the Least-important flock member in my budgies' eyes!)

Bird if stressed wants to be able to move quickly. Which for a bird means all feathers smooth, slick, Ready To Fly.

Bird who is Puffed up is not flight-ready. Fluffed up birdy is bird feeling relaxed.

But. Birds are great at reading human emotions. So I wonder if this could be happening for you: Bird starts to relax, Puffs up. Bird then notices human (responding to Puffiness perceived as bird-anger) appearing stressed in bird's direction. This makes bird more stressed, more apt to respond negatively toward stressed human. Vicious cycle?

Well perhaps that's not the case, perhaps I am misreading a lot into one (Puffed-Up) word. BUT. Even if you have read his emotions correctly all this time, -- in that case -- MAYBE accepting that you will "let him hate you," wilst continuing to love him back -- IF this means that you cease to feel troubled by his emotions toward you, and you can just love him back regardless & let him be who he chooses to be -- that will be less stress for you and therefore less stress & a happier life for him too.

How about foraging ? Buy a few foraging toys ? We have a bunch of them for our 2 parrots they don't have food bowls anymore unless, it has pellets or veggies in it. Otherwise, they have to work for their food\favorites. This has made a big difference in behavior they are happier and act more like birds. More playing, more napping, less plucking. More of our hands in the cage changing them out which associates our hands with happiness. In the wild they have to work for their food some fly up to 45 miles per day. For a while we kept food bowls with their favorites in the cages, with foraging feeders and they preferred to use the foragers, so we only put veggies and pellets in the bowls which they still eat regularly aswell. All birds are different this made ours happier. Good luck.

I wonder if it’s worth bringing in an external trainer to try and help you out, if that is indeed possible for you. My local bird vet offers behavioural training (for birds AND owners ) as one of their in-house services, or your vet may be able to recommend a similar service. Your bird’s attitude is quite well entrenched by now unfortunately so I wonder if it’s worth you bringing in a fresh set of eyes and someone who can give you some “hands on” advice? It might even prove to be a bit of a circuit-breaker in your relationship with him.