When the vet doesnt know best!

SilverSage

New member
Sep 14, 2013
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Columbus, GA
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Eclectus, CAG, BH Pionus, Maximilian’s Pionus, Quakers, Indian Ringnecks, Green Cheeked Conures, Black Capped Conures, Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Budgies, Canaries, Diamond Doves, Zebra Finches, Society F
Some of you know I brought a pair of Eckies home this week. Well on the day I brought them home something terrible happened and I havent been able to write about it until now.

The previous owner, though she did not understand all the needs of a parrot, was deeply devoted to her birds, and when she made the choice to rehome them she decided to get them all vetted and charge their new homes the cost of the visit rather than a rehoming fee.

The vet came into the home, and was from the "best" clinic on the island for avian care. She was opening her own mobile practice but still worked at the clinic some days. She brought microchips, and insisted that any bird over 50 grams could be chipped.

We expressed concern, after all, I had been told that no bird smaller than a CAG could be safely chipped. She said that was because of the anesthesia, and since she didnt use it, it would be fine. She insisted. REPEATEDLY. safe, safe, safe SAFE.

The choice was made to chip all the birds except the love birds. First up was LemonCito, a Sennie who was going to a lovely lady and was already in the process of being registered as a full service animal (not an emotional support animal). My close friend who is very experienced held Lemoncito for the chip because the vet had not brought a tech. She died within seconds of the chip. Died in her hands. All the vet could do was curse and insist she had done it right. We were all devastated. We knew better, but we trusted the vet because we are TRAINED TO TRUST VETS. Well guess what? This vet was wrong. It wasn't safe. We stuffed down our misgivings and a sweet, sweet bird is gone from the world because we believed a line about cutting edge advancements and other vets being to afraid or lazy to do a new thing. Sennies are too small to chip safely, folks. Too. small.
 

amjokai

New member
Apr 19, 2014
211
0
Wahiawa, Oahu, Hawaii
Parrots
Eclectus, Blue and Gold Macaw, Cockatiels, Ringnecks, Green Cheek Conure
Every time I read it or think about it I re live that moment. I will
Never forgive myself.
 

JerseyWendy

New member
Jul 20, 2012
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Oh my gosh. :( I am so sorry you ladies had to witness this. Poor LemonCito. Fly free buddy!

Hugs to you both!!!
 

Sunset_Chaser

New member
Sep 25, 2014
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Minnesota
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Bella (B&G Macaw)
2 Yellow Naped Amazons,
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2 Sun Conures,
2 Indian Ringnecks,
2 Quakers
How awful! I'm so sorry for the loss of LemonCito :(
 

Pinkbirdy

New member
Feb 26, 2013
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Clifton Springs Newyork
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macaw,LS2,congo grey,2Blk Hd caiques,Hawkhead,yellowstrk lory,Blue frnt amazon,sun conure ,Yellow sided greencheek ,Goffin ,Rosebreasted Cockatoo,Greenwing Macaw,Blue and Gold Macaw,Nanday conure,Ecle
My heart is in my throat reading this [Im so sorry ] . My Blue and gold died right in front of me at the vets last year as they were trying restrain him . My thoughts are they should be able to pick up on when their stressing them to much.
 

faeryphoebe1

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Feb 1, 2013
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San Antonio, Texas
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Trixie, Sunny & Gonzo♡♡♡
Every time I read it or think about it I re live that moment. I will
Never forgive myself.

Please give yourself some wiggle room for forgiveness.

The vet's arrogance is what lead to her death. The responsibility sits solely with her.

I'm so sorry, ladies. (((hugs)))

Fly high at Rainbow Bridge, LemonCito
 

labell

New member
Feb 17, 2014
1,988
5
East
How very sad I am so sorry you gals had to go through that. I have learned over the years that sometimes even without being a doctor or a vet that I in fact know what's best and will never hesitate to speak my mind with my care or with my animals. Not much I despise more than doctors with God complexes!:mad:
 

Birdman666

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2013
9,904
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San Antonio, TX
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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
First of all, I am terribly sorry for your loss. I don't blame you for being pissed off about it.

Guess what, the vet generates income for herself by doing the procedure...

whether it's safe or not...

Conflict of interest maybe? Something that can be exploited.

Just like certain brands of pellets are preferred by vets, and the best on the market because, oh, wait, they are being marketed through avian vets...

Well, I'll use that one exclusively then, even if it is ten times the cost of everything else on the market...

USING ANESTHETIC ON A BIRD IN AND OF ITSELF IS INHERENTLY UNSAFE. THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU HAVE TO DO IT, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A RISK THE BIRD WILL NOT WAKE UP... THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T DO IT UNLESS YOU HAVE TO.

I don't fully trust vets or even doctors for that matter. After 30 years in my business and seeing the amount of medical malpractice that goes on...

You need a second opinion, and you really need to weigh the risks. A lesson for all of us...
 

Birdman666

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2013
9,904
258
San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Every time I read it or think about it I re live that moment. I will
Never forgive myself.

Please give yourself some wiggle room for forgiveness.

The vet's arrogance is what lead to her death. The responsibility sits solely with her.

Exactly.

It appears that you were deliberately misled. Either by the chip manufacturer's claims, which led to the vet thinking it was a good idea...

Or a vet, who assumed it was okay, and just did it for the money...
 

Scott

Supporting Member
Aug 21, 2010
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San Diego, California USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Parrots
Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
I'm so sorry for the senseless loss of Lemoncito. Do you believe she passed from the stress of the physical process or was it something specific to the chip?

There is nothing more heartless than than the hubris of folks without sensitivity working on our beloved pets. I have regrets from the longtime patronage of an avian clinic; one of the two vets is virtually a butcher. :(
I have since changed practices and have high respect for both avian vets. They tend to perform procedures with you present unless specialized tests/equipment or anesthesia is required.

I lost a BFA many years ago during anesthesia, and it was apparently a mucous-plug that caused asphyxiation rather than the gas per se. (I am 99% certain the botched procedure was performed by a med-student under supervision of the primary vet. An early wakeup call regarding that clinic) AFAIK Sevoflurane gas is the "safest" and far better than less costly gasses or injectables.
 

Mariar

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May 9, 2014
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Clearwater Florida but grew up in Wisconsin
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Doolie,Yellow nape amazon(r.i.p.03/10/15)
Sissy,severe macaw(rescued on 03-16-15) chirpy,sparrow(beak less) jack,Jill,chase,fiona,finch, and tiger,sulfer crested(rescued 04/15/20
I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of lemoncito..I don't fully trust vets or doctors either. Just because they wear a white coat and call themselves doctors doesn't mean they always know what's best for our babies. The vet I used for my sugar gliders isn't a very good one but I didn't realize it till she used Skype with another vet to pull my boys three teeth..she doesn't know anything about sugarglider a I found out ..I've never been back.
 

MyFlock

New member
Apr 15, 2015
340
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Conures, 2 Red bellied parrots lovebirds.
Does that 'best clinic' start with an F? Sorry for the loss of lemoncito :(
 

RavensGryf

Supporting Member
Jan 19, 2014
14,233
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College Station, Texas
Parrots
Red Bellied Parrot /
Ruppell's Parrot /
Bronze Winged Pionus /
English Budgie
Oh I am so sorry to hear this :(. How traumatic for you ladies to witness. Ariel, please don't blame yourself!! You held the bird in your experienced hands, and that had NOTHING to do with the death. How unfortunate that this vet was so convinced it was safe.

I wonder if there are different size chips (different sized needles) and this vet wasn't aware of it? Michelle's "Puck" got chipped, and he's a Quaker, roughly the body mass of a Senegal.

At any rate, what a terrible loss of life for such a reason :(.
 

amjokai

New member
Apr 19, 2014
211
0
Wahiawa, Oahu, Hawaii
Parrots
Eclectus, Blue and Gold Macaw, Cockatiels, Ringnecks, Green Cheek Conure
Ravensgriff I think there is a specific avian chip which the needle is significantly smaller and when done in the hands of a true certified avian vet it would be fine but aparantly upon further research there are no true avian vets on this entire island :( so frustrating. Now I'm terrified to have rio and drogo chipped by anyone even though they are huge. We actually videoed the procedure and the owner has it. I am not sure if she has deleted it or not.

Myflock- yes, but she has since left that practice and gone on her own as a mobile vet.
 

RavensGryf

Supporting Member
Jan 19, 2014
14,233
190
College Station, Texas
Parrots
Red Bellied Parrot /
Ruppell's Parrot /
Bronze Winged Pionus /
English Budgie
From what I am hearing from those of you in Hawaii, how truly sad the state of aviculture is there (generally speaking). Just as pathetic, NO avian vets? Wow, that's surprising too.

I'm guessing she may have used the size chip they use for dogs and cats? and with no anesthetic on top of that?! :eek: :(

Edit: the one's I've seen when I used to work with dogs are the size of a rice grain, and a needle big enough for it to go through. I don't know if they are still using that size, but need I say more...
 
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MyFlock

New member
Apr 15, 2015
340
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Conures, 2 Red bellied parrots lovebirds.
I take my birds to a clinic here that I have not one bad word to say about. Called Waipahu Waikele Pet hospital. Very professional place, receptionists are friendly ( not rude) the vets are nice and competent plus it's open 24 hours a day for emergencies. I highly recommend it!
 

amjokai

New member
Apr 19, 2014
211
0
Wahiawa, Oahu, Hawaii
Parrots
Eclectus, Blue and Gold Macaw, Cockatiels, Ringnecks, Green Cheek Conure
Dani uses Waipahu waikele and I've brought a bird there for a necropsy. I do like them. But they aren't board certified avian vets. They're just vets with some bird experience.
 

henpecked

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Dec 12, 2010
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Jake YNA 1970,Kia Panama amazon1975, both i removed from nest and left siblings, Forever Home to,Stacie (YN hen),Mickie (RLA male),Blinkie (YNA hen),Kong (Panama hen),Rescue Zons;Nitro,Echo,Rocky,Rub
Sorry to hear of the loss of your baby. Personally i prefer to use anesthesia when examining/grooming my amazons. Especially the breeder birds. Even when toweled before anesthesia they forget about it when they wake up in their cage next to their mate. I find it far less traumatic than toweling alone.Which can cause many different problems with breeder zons , including them not breeding.I have never had an issue with anesthesia. Of course Scott McDonald assess the health of my birds first and does this procedure on an almost daily basis.IMO your mobile vet doesn't have the equiment/training to offer this service and therefore didn't have your best interest at heart. Another thing, i'd never allow any procedure i couldn't witness. Have you checked to see if dr scott visits the islands ?? i know he practices overseas(Europe,Canada,etc). You should visit his website.
 
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MyFlock

New member
Apr 15, 2015
340
1
Parrots
Conures, 2 Red bellied parrots lovebirds.
Dani uses Waipahu waikele and I've brought a bird there for a necropsy. I do like them. But they aren't board certified avian vets. They're just vets with some bird experience.

Darn! That's too bad! Hopefully they will get some in. They have vet there that used to work at 'F' I wonder if he's certified?
 

RavensGryf

Supporting Member
Jan 19, 2014
14,233
190
College Station, Texas
Parrots
Red Bellied Parrot /
Ruppell's Parrot /
Bronze Winged Pionus /
English Budgie
One of the two avian vets I use is very experienced with birds, to the point that approximately half his clientele is birds. He is not a board certified avian vet he once told me through chatting with him, which surprised me. After 'trying' several all species vets over the years who claim to know birds, he is far more knowledgeable about birds than the others. (besides my other vet who is exclusively avian). Conversely, "board certified" doesn't always guarantee they're any good either.
 
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