Can a routine beak trim be fatal

blkdog

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Hello,

I have wanted to write this forum for two months but because of my heartbreak I have been unable to.

On, Tuesday, August 23 2016, I took my Eclectus, Rio, in for his annual check up. The vet did a gram stain, blood work, etc and because his beak was a little ong wanted to do a beak trim. He took him in another room to do the beak trim and returned twenty minutes later. He told be three times what an amazingly healthy bird I had, the results from the gram stain was perfect and he said by the color and condition of his feathers and color of his beak he knew immediately that he was in superior health.

When he returned Rio to me, Rio was panting (I assumed from stress) and sneezing ( I assumed from dust from the beak trim). However, this continued all day and when I called the vet, he assured me Rio would be fine by the next morning. The next morning Rio was still sneezing, open mouth breathing and now, also, wheezing. I rushed him back to the vet,who couldn't believe this was the same bird he saw the day before. He took x-rays but found nothing and a more extensive blood panel than his rountine exam. He kept Rio overnight and sent him home with antibiotics on Thursday. He left for vacation on Friday and when Rio had not improved by Saturday I called his clinic, they told me antibiotics can take four days to kick in and by Monday I should see improvement. On Monday, he was much worse, he sounded like he had bronchitis, his chest sounded congested, he also, had yellow, thick phlem in his mouth. (He did continue, like a typical Eclectus, to eat heartily through all of this). I called another avian vet and took him in to see her. She wanted to do more x-rays and blood work since his condition had deteriorated. By the way, the blood work from the last vet came back normal. She kept him overnight and called me first thing in the morning asking if I would be willing to take him to a specialist for an endoscopy. I drove over there first thing, (this is now Tuesday, a week from his check up) to pick him up. The vet told me he tried to eat but kept regurgitating his food, he was fluffed up and looked very ill, he has clearly gone downhill since I dropped him off the day before. I held him and sobbed uncontrollably until I could pull myself together. I decided to make this time special and so I played his favorite CD on the radio and sang. He has a car perch for our car rides, he always runs errands with me, he is my constant companion and goes everywhere with me. He loves when I play the radio and sing but this time he did not sing along, he had not talked since our vet appointment a week ago. As I sang on our hour drive to the vets, he crawled up on my shoulder and continually kissed me on the cheek. The avian specialist had me leave Rio and told me he would call with the results. After a tearful good bye and lots of kisses from my gentle, sweet Rio, I headed home. Three hours later, the vet called to tell me Rio's heart stopped during the procedure.

Rio was my only bird and my constant companion. We spent all day together, he went everywhere with me and was quite a big hit around town. He talked up a storm, was so gentle, never bit anyone and anyone could hold him, he was potty trained, he played ball with my poodle, he was my best friend. I would tell Rio someday it will just be you and me in the nursing home, I expected to have him for decades, my fifteen year old daughter planned to take care of him if I died before him. I adopted him from a bird rescue when he was two years old. He was only seven and a half year old when he died. The house is devastatingly quiet and I miss him every minute of everyday.

I am sorry this is so long but I had to get this out and see if anyone else has experienced this. On his final blood work, with the specialist only his white blood cells were elevated which would indicate infection. I asked the vet if the beak trim could have caused his death, he did say given the onset of his illness it did appear that if I had not taken him for the beak trim I would most likely still have him today. Did the vet restrain him to tightly causing food in his crop to go into his esophagus him to aspirate and did this than turn into pneumonia, Rio did eat breakfast right before our 9:00 a.m. appointment.

Be careful with beak trims and your the vet if you can hold your bird while he does it, that way you, know your bird and can have the vet stop if it's causing to much stress. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
 

SailBoat

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I, as all of you're fellow Parrot Owners here on the Parrot Forums are very sorry to hear of your loss! May your dear Rio Rest in Peace!

It is very possible that the loss of Rio may have begun with Beak Trim and/or the handling during that process had Stressed him. In addition, either could have set the stage for an illness to take hold during or after the appointment.

As a general statement, I do not allow my Amazon to eat prior to any Medical Visit; Morning or afternoon appointments a minimum of 6 hours. But that just me and listening to my now retired Vet.

Today, most Avian Vets rarely leave the room to preform any 'general visit' procedures. It has been found that with the Owner present, 'most' Parrots tend not to become as Stressed.

Again, very sorry for your loss!
 

Anansi

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I am so deeply sorry for the loss of your beloved Rio. it sounds like the two of you had an amazing bond and that his life, while far too short, was an incredibly happy one.

Short of a necropsy, you'll never know for certain what caused Rio's death. But the scenario you described sounds plausible. Thank you so much for caring enough to take the time to post this warning for others who may want to give their birds a trim. My birds never need beak trims, but what I have taken from your story is to try to schedule any of their future veterinary appointments far enough away from their last meal that aspiration will be less likely. it's something I'd never even considered before this. Thank you for that.

If you would like, I can move this thread to the Bereavement sub-forum for you. Though if you would prefer, it can remain here. Whichever course makes you more comfortable.

My thoughts and prayers are with you in this difficult time.
 
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blkdog

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I, as all of you're fellow Parrot Owners here on the Parrot Forums are very sorry to hear of your loss! May your dear Rio Rest in Peace!

It is very possible that the loss of Rio may have begun with Beak Trim and/or the handling during that process had Stressed him. In addition, either could have set the stage for an illness to take hold during or after the appointment.

As a general statement, I do not allow my Amazon to eat prior to any Medical Visit; Morning or afternoon appointments a minimum of 6 hours. But that just me and listening to my now retired Vet.

Today, most Avian Vets rarely leave the room to preform any 'general visit' procedures. It has been found that with the Owner present, 'most' Parrots tend not to become as Stressed.

Again, very sorry for your loss!

Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and I would never feed my bird before a vet visit or entrust a vet to leave the room for a beak trim. Rio did have a beak trim a couple years ago with the same vet and I held him and Rio was so upset I barely let the vet trim his beak before I said enough. Maybe the vet remembered me as the over cautious mom and that is why he took him out of the room. The food issue never crossed my mind and I did entrust this vet with his care, both my huge mistakes. This vet has a reputation as the best avian vet around, people drive for miles to take their birds to him. However, I did notice he seemed a little preoccupied that day, not his usual self, perhaps he was already in vacation mode and maybe this lead to him making a fatal mistake with Rio. I am already so depressed that I can't beat myself up, I love that bird with all my heart and I did the best I could for him with the information I had at that time.

Thank you all for your kind words.
 
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Scott

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My deepest condolences for your loss of Rio. I hope you will treasure his wonderful memories and in time they will overshadow your grief.

I am very familiar with beak-trimming as this is an ongoing need with my female eclectus. The procedure can either be administered under anesthesia or more commonly by simple restraint. Your theory may be correct as it is possible to ingest some of the ground material and may help cause infection. Whether Rio aspirated food during handling is an unknown, but a seriously non-compliant bird should cause a delay and reconsideration. Was the endoscopy procedure the first time Rio was anesthetized? While generally very safe using modern Sevoflurane gas, it is possible an underlying illness was at primary fault.

Rio was deeply loved, I am so sorry.
 

Violet_Diva

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Such a tragedy. My deepest condolences to you during this upsetting time. He was obviously very loved and I'm sure you filled him with joy and happy memories during his years with you. Thank-you for sharing your story. I hope that in time you will one day share your love again. This story is another example of how we must cherish every day with our beloved birds. We can never predict whats around the corner. I will definitely think and feel differently about any beak trimming in future as I have not read such a story before. Thank-you for bringing this to everyones attention.
 

wrench13

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Oh dear, what a sad story, you have my condolences. The take away for me is, no beak trimming - find out why a beak even needs trimming and correct the condition, and second, no food for 6 hrs before vet visits.
 

Pinkbirdy

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I'm so sorry :( I lost my Blue and Gold right in front of me.I believe it was their handling of him.He was only six.Now I make all the judgement calls when it comes to my big flock.I don't do unnecessary things.I do have a anime as l hospital
 

Kentuckienne

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Oh dear, what a sad story, you have my condolences. The take away for me is, no beak trimming - find out why a beak even needs trimming and correct the condition, and second, no food for 6 hrs before vet visits.

How do you correct the overgrown beak/toenail condition? Gus's beak was trimmed when he was rescued, and his nails cut, but they didn't go all out because it had been so long and they didn't want his nails to bleed. Is there some kind of toy that helps keep the beak right? And I can't figure out ant way to wear his nails down - they still need trimming, and now I worry about it.
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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OMG poor Rio :02: I am so so sorry for your loss. Having been there,I know exactly what your are going through.Words can only comfort so much.

Maybe now, Rio and Smokey,and Al's Max,and all the others..are flying across Rainbow Bridge,looking down on us,thanking us for a great life they shared with us :15:


Jim
 

GaleriaGila

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It took me a while to get up the nerve to read this.
I just knew it would be so sad, and it was. I am so very sorry, but glad you came here and told your story. It takes bird-people to understand and really give the best empathy and sympathy and support. I have just promised myself I will never let the vet or anybody else ever again take the Rbird where I can't see him. Thank you for that.
*Patagonian hugzszszsz*
 

Anansi

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Oh dear, what a sad story, you have my condolences. The take away for me is, no beak trimming - find out why a beak even needs trimming and correct the condition, and second, no food for 6 hrs before vet visits.

How do you correct the overgrown beak/toenail condition? Gus's beak was trimmed when he was rescued, and his nails cut, but they didn't go all out because it had been so long and they didn't want his nails to bleed. Is there some kind of toy that helps keep the beak right? And I can't figure out ant way to wear his nails down - they still need trimming, and now I worry about it.

If the beak overgrowth is due to diet or lack of any hard surfaces to condition their beaks, the issue can be addressed by improving the diet or adding more toys and objects for the bird to chew. But if the issue is due to a congenital defect, or damage during early development, you might not really have a choice but to file down the beak.

As for wearing the nails down, my trick has been to put a good concrete perch by their food bowls. they dance around on that so much when it's dinner time that they keep their own nails trimmed.
 

GaleriaGila

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I'll add mis dos centavos about nails.
I really recommend getting some nail-trimming perches, too... they can eliminate nail-trimming, which was always so stressful for me and the Rb. It took a few years, but I eventually established a pattern/rotation that keeps him trimmed. I haven't had to do his nails in 20-plus years. I keep a dowel as the main "highway" down the middle of the cage, but the special cement/trimmer/textured perches are all over.
A few brands... but there are many: Polly's Sand Walk... Pumice Perch... Trimmer Perch...
Be sure to introduce them gradually: they're abrasive to their tender feet at first. I LOVE them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

wrench13

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Not to clog up this thread, but yes, more wood toys to be chewed and sand/concrete or other abrasive perches. Salty sleeps on one. Gus needs to be taught that wood is wonderful! Congenital defects in either beak or claws is a different matter.
 

anita1216

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Our Cape has scissor beak, it requires careful trimming to keep it from becoming a problem.
That being said I do not allow them to take her from the room when its being done, she also is not allowed to eat prior to her trims.

Im so very sorry, thats devastating.
 

Kentuckienne

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Blkdog, you will help many bird lives by having made this difficult post. It was hard to read, and I am so sorry it happened to you when you were just taking the best care you could.
 

happy410

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Sorry for your loss.
The last visit to our vet, my Amazon was toweled for nail trim, beak and wings. She was panting so hard, I asked the vet if she was towel d to tight. When they uncovered her she had feathers in her mouth and lost a feather on her head. From now on if I feel something is going wrong I'm not not to be afraid to speak up. Thanks for sharing your story.
 

camo

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I could not imagine the loss you are feeling, my sincere condolences. Thank you for sharing this story, to save others from possibly going through the loss and grief you are experiencing.

It sounds like Rio had a great and fulfilling life.
 

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