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Old 11-15-2016, 09:02 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Loko View Post
Never knew that, interesting! And thats great that they focus on the natural state of the bird, therefore I take back what I said. In that case I would say its a beneficial thing if the focus is on healthy natural birds, though Im sure many know what I was saying as far as dogs. If that doesnt apply here, then awesome, Im all for it. Another thing to look into now.
I am in agreement with what you said, unfortunately there are too many breeders who breed solely for show looks with no thought to the damage they could be doing by inbreeding, etc. It does exist in bird showing as well.
Just thought I'd add a little info about showing divisions
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2016, 09:22 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Terry57 View Post
I am a member of a bird club who has annual shows, and they are almost exclusively for small birds such as finches and canaries. Budgies are the exception as we have several breeders who breed their budgies for show. We also have a hookbill division that rarely has more than a couple of entries, and most are in the pet category rather than hookbill category.
Winners are awarded ribbons or trophies, never money at our show.
Here is a link to the club page, if you click on the show catalogue and scroll through you can see the in depth categories for small birds, and the generic listing for hookbills.
https://nacbaca.wordpress.com/bird-show/

The sad loss of the Hookbills as part of Shows can be traced back near 35 years ago with the shutting-down of the import trade. The first fifteen years after the import shut-down saw the rapid growth of back-barn /poorly trained Breeders who's only goal was to profit by the sale of mid - larger Parrots.

In addition, it is costly to Breed Show (Natural State) Hookbills because of the needed numbers of Breeding Show Quality Hookbills. It was not unusual for a High End Breeder to have twenty plus, single species, Breeding pairs to support the presentation of 'maybe' two at a Bird Show!

To offset their costs, they needed to sell their other excellent Hookbills. That becomes a problem when the back-barn Breeders are selling at half the price of the excellent Hookbill.

End Results: Hookbill Show Bird Class rapidly falls apart. There is still a fairly active Tiel Class, but is nowhere the size as it use to be!

Term: Hookbill - Uppersized smaller Parrots, to the Largest Parrots.


Added Note: Yup, the back-barn group has showed up and are reducing the quality of the Show Birds

Last edited by SailBoat; 11-15-2016 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:57 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

This all reminds me of the mockumentary movie (a comedic fake documentary) Best In Show which made fun of dog shows and the kind of people who show in them. I always loved it because I show horses, and the people who are involved in horse shows are EXACTLY like the people in Best In Show, right down to the utter insanity. I'm kind of glad a well organized system of bird showing doesn't exist or we would probably have a lot more fighting in our community--heaven knows that showing your avatar on a horse forum will eventually lead to you being ripped apart by SOMEONE for being wrong about SOMETHING! I understand missing showing, but you might just want to try going back to goats as it sounds like what we do have for hookbills is not the same sort of showing. It seems like it would kind of be like someone who showed in hunter/jumper horseback riding events trying to switch to dog showing--very same in attitude but completely different in what you actually do. But that's just my opinion as a dedicated horse person (yes, I admit to be completely insane when it comes to horses). If you really want to show birds, it sounds a lot more fun and friendly since it's so small, so I say go for it! Most English horse shows in the the South are local, but they're still fun of crazy, psycho-competitive people, LOL! At least hookbill showing sounds like it's done for fun instead of for a genuine need to grind your competition into the ground, haha!
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:34 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Terry57 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Loko View Post
Never knew that, interesting! And thats great that they focus on the natural state of the bird, therefore I take back what I said. In that case I would say its a beneficial thing if the focus is on healthy natural birds, though Im sure many know what I was saying as far as dogs. If that doesnt apply here, then awesome, Im all for it. Another thing to look into now.
I am in agreement with what you said, unfortunately there are too many breeders who breed solely for show looks with no thought to the damage they could be doing by inbreeding, etc. It does exist in bird showing as well.
Just thought I'd add a little info about showing divisions
Yeah I admit I really dont know much about animal showing in general but I am totally against the dog shows that display all these genetically malformed dogs. I think its inhumane. With that said, Im sure there are people who focus on natural states, but like mentioned this also opens up a category of back yard breeders who are concerned about money and see the animals as objects to show and profit. Not all, but it exists, even in parrot keeping for pets.

And to what Puck said, I can imagine it gets like that, kind of like those crazy people on toddlers and tiaras I would imagine. Crazy is not always bad though, as many of those people keep their animals in exceptionally well health. I love competition myself, but Im glad its not on the forums as these are places to learn not compete.
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:28 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

I can't stand dog showing myself as it tends to be breeding away from the amazing quality of dogs we used to have take pugs for example look at the earliest pictures you can find, really pretty now a days it's good to breed for detrimental health? I don't think So! Or taking amazing hunting dogs and making them worthless in the field. The amount of inbreeding that occurs is also disgusting not only for the "eww" factor but that they again would rather see a ribbon than bettering the breed.

The thing that I like about it from the information I had read, it's population of crazy people is a lot smaller, usually it's a really friendly crowd, who breed to BETTER the species, not saying that some don't do harm.

I'm actually really happy that the shows usually don't pay money, after reading this thread especially in theory it should keep those who care more about money than they do the birds out of it.

The first thing I made sure of when talking about looking for a mentor and how to find decent stock was finding a decent breeder with actual ethics, similar to my own.

Anyway I hope it's me just waking up and reading things wrong then me ruffling any feathers *drum roll*

Please see the posts below this one it has pictures of what a show should look like! All of those birds look not only beautiful, but honestly healthy.

It's my understanding that a bird will look horrible, under horrible conditions and health, absolutely no conditioning will bring out that kind of feathers.

As far as the comment about outside of New Hampshire shows, I'm not exactly sure why you had asked, but I would be more than happy to help you look for local shows, if any as bird shows isn't as popular in the USA as it is in other countries.

If I had missed addressing any comments I'm sorry about that

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Old 11-15-2016, 11:34 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Puck View Post
This all reminds me of the mockumentary movie (a comedic fake documentary) Best In Show which made fun of dog shows and the kind of people who show in them. I always loved it because I show horses, and the people who are involved in horse shows are EXACTLY like the people in Best In Show, right down to the utter insanity. I'm kind of glad a well organized system of bird showing doesn't exist or we would probably have a lot more fighting in our community--heaven knows that showing your avatar on a horse forum will eventually lead to you being ripped apart by SOMEONE for being wrong about SOMETHING! I understand missing showing, but you might just want to try going back to goats as it sounds like what we do have for hookbills is not the same sort of showing. It seems like it would kind of be like someone who showed in hunter/jumper horseback riding events trying to switch to dog showing--very same in attitude but completely different in what you actually do. But that's just my opinion as a dedicated horse person (yes, I admit to be completely insane when it comes to horses). If you really want to show birds, it sounds a lot more fun and friendly since it's so small, so I say go for it! Most English horse shows in the the South are local, but they're still fun of crazy, psycho-competitive people, LOL! At least hookbill showing sounds like it's done for fun instead of for a genuine need to grind your competition into the ground, haha!
Man, I knew you had to be 'nuts!' I can say that because a one point very long ago, we had gotten into Appaloosas and Tennesse Walkers and that was just plain nuts! The Appaloosa was a barrow bender and in the ribbons. But OMG, take that horse on a trial and every tiny little thing that moved had him freaked-out. Our youngest took him out and he came back without her and that was it, ribbons or not! Was a true heartbreaker to say goodbye to our Walker, truly sweet and fully trustworthy family horse that outside of 4H, couldn't turn a ribbon if her life depended on it! Age and illness caught up!
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:59 AM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Puck View Post
This all reminds me of the mockumentary movie (a comedic fake documentary) Best In Show which made fun of dog shows and the kind of people who show in them. I always loved it because I show horses, and the people who are involved in horse shows are EXACTLY like the people in Best In Show, right down to the utter insanity. I'm kind of glad a well organized system of bird showing doesn't exist or we would probably have a lot more fighting in our community--heaven knows that showing your avatar on a horse forum will eventually lead to you being ripped apart by SOMEONE for being wrong about SOMETHING! I understand missing showing, but you might just want to try going back to goats as it sounds like what we do have for hookbills is not the same sort of showing. It seems like it would kind of be like someone who showed in hunter/jumper horseback riding events trying to switch to dog showing--very same in attitude but completely different in what you actually do. But that's just my opinion as a dedicated horse person (yes, I admit to be completely insane when it comes to horses). If you really want to show birds, it sounds a lot more fun and friendly since it's so small, so I say go for it! Most English horse shows in the the South are local, but they're still fun of crazy, psycho-competitive people, LOL! At least hookbill showing sounds like it's done for fun instead of for a genuine need to grind your competition into the ground, haha!
I can't show goats any more, or even keep them.

Do you know if best in show is on Netflix or Hulu even?

I realize that showing birds is a whole new ball game, from what I read it still seems awesome!

Horse showing must be very exciting! In 4H we had two horses both white, so much fun to ride, but so painful at the end of the day, I remember thinking it was just sitting on a horse and they'd magically do it, rather than the joint effort.

What do you and your horses participate in?


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Old 11-15-2016, 12:47 PM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Now I'm thinking how much fun it'd be to show the Rbird...
You KNOW he'd be the only Patagonian there!
He'd be a cinch!
Plus, he's definitely huge, even for a Patagonian, and has a comparatively big orange belly.
Hey, maybe finally something I could brag about!!!! Unless the judges penalize for noise...
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:05 PM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Absolutely, if the showing exists to show the natural beautiful state of the birds, then thats great, and keeping a lot of money out of it does help to keep those truly in it for the love of the birds around rather than those who ruin it for others looking for a quick buck. That can be said for anything though. I think for something like this its one of those things that its good its not a huge thing, because those dedicated to it are the ones involved.
By the way, I think someone mentioned NH because they thought you said thats where you live with "4H". What is 4H?
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:43 PM
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Re: Bird showing questions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Loko View Post
Absolutely, if the showing exists to show the natural beautiful state of the birds, then thats great, and keeping a lot of money out of it does help to keep those truly in it for the love of the birds around rather than those who ruin it for others looking for a quick buck. That can be said for anything though. I think for something like this its one of those things that its good its not a huge thing, because those dedicated to it are the ones involved.
By the way, I think someone mentioned NH because they thought you said thats where you live with "4H". What is 4H?
I do live in New Hampshire, 4H is amazing!

I can't speak for everyone when I say this, but I'll give you the low down on what I did.

School let out, I went straight to the farm where I learned about responsibility, feeding goats, and sheep and tiki and Diablo (the two horses.) milking goats, trimming hooves, bottle feeding the babies when the mother's were having problems producing milk, and the most fun part! Hanging out with them!

Since I showed goats I also brushed them, trained them to walk along side me.

If you are unfamiliar with goats they are extremely intelligent animals, my big boy was huge, and very aggressive towards anyone besides me, broke the owners ribs but I could do anything I wanted with him and he'd be fine being a herd animal they become very attached to their "herd" I was his which meant every day I had to go and feed him, if not he'd barely eat.

Another example of them being trained is one of our milk goats Wanda would purposely seek out the milk stand, as that's where she got her treats, and her own food (still ate with other goats.)

For the shows, you need a basic understanding of anatomy, but simple things like withers (highest part of their back, that you use for taking measurements.)

While this may sound like fun, and games there's a lot of heart ache involved, birth problems and illnesses, saying good bye to an animal you spent so much time with trying to save, like runts, and premature babies.

Think about it as boy scouts / girl scouts but for agriculture, for a short answer.

They even have camps for 4H.

Sorry for rambling but as you maybe able to tell it's a big passion of mine.

Maybe someone else can speak about their experiences in it?


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