abnormal embryo development - what's going on?

SilverSage · Oct 22, 2015

Sniper and Jackie (cockatiels) are on 4 eggs. She has been sitting tight since before she started laying. All 4 are fertile and alive, but the youngest is very odd. He seems to only be developing in half of his shell. This egg was laid on October 15, this picture was taken a couple of days ago. It isn't a great picture, but hopefully you can see a little of what I mean. At first I thought it was EED (early embryonic death) but there is no blood ring, vessels continue to develop, and today I actually saw movement. The little guy is alive. So...

-Does anyone know what would cause what seems like a giant air cell in only one egg? All others are developing normally.
-Do you have any ideas of what I could do to increase his chances of survival?

I will try for a better picture later, but it requires my husband to cooperate and he is convinced that if I so much as open the box I am dooming the babies. Which is not true, Jackie and I have an understanding.

Mekaisto · Oct 22, 2015

Is it possible the egg is too dry?

SilverSage · Oct 22, 2015

I thought of that as well, however the humidity levels in the room are fairly high, the mother bathes regularly, and the other three eggs are developing normally. And even if that were the case, I have never seen dehydration so severe that there is more air cell than embryo at this stage. I'm not even sure if it is air or clear fluid; my scale isn't sensitive enough for me to track weights of eggs this small.

Aquila · Oct 22, 2015

Is she turning the eggs enough? I'm not really experienced in this kind of issue but I would think that, and too low humidity could have caused it initially, as the egg is losing fluid and causing the air bubble. Too high can cause issues as well, I'm not sure of what's needed for cockatiels but I would assume on the lower end of humidity.

Since your scale isn't sensitive enough, I was reading that you can use a wax pencil to carefully mark the spot it's in, but to wait a fair amount of days before remarking so you don't obstruct the pores of the egg too much.

SilverSage · Oct 22, 2015

She is turning the eggs, so I don't think that's it either. One of the reasons I wondered about the weight is that it would help me determine if the "empty" part is actually air or if it is fluid.

And I highly doubt it is dehydration unless there is a problem with the construction of the shell, since the other eggs are doing well, the humidity in the room is high, and mom bathes when she needs to. I tried monitoring the humidity inside the box, but daddy birdie put an end to that!

OOwl · Oct 22, 2015

Are you sure the shell isn't thicker on that one side that might be causing your light to penetrate more on one side than the other? If the baby is alive in there, whatever it is isn't serious enough to cause early in-shell death. It will be really interesting to see how the egg continues to develop and if it hatches normally. Can't wait to "meet" its occupant. I hope he/she is just fine.

SilverSage · Oct 22, 2015

The shell may be thicker or thinner, but I'm very confident that it is not enough to cause that particular misunderstanding. I wish I had a better picture to share, but taking this sort of picture requires 4 hands and my husband isn't very cooperative.

Mekaisto · Oct 23, 2015

If it's air in that part of the shell, rather than clear fluid, that half of the egg will be considerably lighter - you'll feel it.

But apart from that - I'm stumped! Other than a defect, I can't tell you what might have happened.

SilverSage · Oct 23, 2015

I have been able to determine that it is fluid, not air, in the "empty" part of the shell. It has a normal sized air cell. Today I see veins starting to invade that space, so perhaps the chick will develope and be viable. The clutch is due to start hatching on Tuesday, the egg in question is the 4th egg, so we should see in a couple of weeks if we still have a live embryo.

dhraiden · Oct 23, 2015

Hope it all turns out well!

SilverSage · Oct 26, 2015

Well, little strange baby died sometime today or yesterday. I am sad but not surprised. Something was wrong from the beginning, but I was never able to figure out what. I have pictures and I will be recording all of this in the parents' file and keep an eye out for it in the future.

When you breed birds some of the babies do not make it. As in this case, some do not even make it out of the shell. I believe that if you are going to breed you need to be so dedicated to learning that you don't let babies "die in vain." Of course I never want to lose one. But when I do, I do everything I can to learn how/why it happened and how to keep that from happening again, to my babies or to someone else's.

Some people may feel that I come off as very judgemental in certain posts especially regarding the raising of baby birds. This is because as a breeder I feel there is no excuse not to research your heart out, wrack your brain, and in all other ways do everything you can to protect the lives you have taken responsibility for. It blows my mind that some people do not do everything they can to learn the dangers of raising parrots, the ways they can be damaged, their developmental and nutritional needs...

Sorry, I guess that's a bit of a rant brought on by thinking about this weird little baby, doomed from the start, and me powerless to save him because of the limits of my knowledge despite my best efforts. Fly free tiny weird baby. I wish I knew what happened to you.

Aquila · Oct 26, 2015

SilverSage said:
Well, little strange baby died sometime today or yesterday. I am sad but not surprised. Something was wrong from the beginning, but I was never able to figure out what. I have pictures and I will be recording all of this in the parents' file and keep an eye out for it in the future.

When you breed birds some of the babies do not make it. As in this case, some do not even make it out of the shell. I believe that if you are going to breed you need to be so dedicated to learning that you don't let babies "die in vain." Of course I never want to lose one. But when I do, I do everything I can to learn how/why it happened and how to keep that from happening again, to my babies or to someone else's.

Some people may feel that I come off as very judgemental in certain posts especially regarding the raising of baby birds. This is because as a breeder I feel there is no excuse not to research your heart out, wrack your brain, and in all other ways do everything you can to protect the lives you have taken responsibility for. It blows my mind that some people do not do everything they can to learn the dangers of raising parrots, the ways they can be damaged, their developmental and nutritional needs...

Sorry, I guess that's a bit of a rant brought on by thinking about this weird little baby, doomed from the start, and me powerless to save him because of the limits of my knowledge despite my best efforts. Fly free tiny weird baby. I wish I knew what happened to you.

Would it be worth it to see if your vet could do a necropsy on it? If it's even possible to do?

OOwl · Oct 26, 2015

Sorry about the baby. I was hoping it would live.

SilverSage · Oct 26, 2015

He wasn't far enough along for that to be a possibility unfortunately.

abnormal embryo development - what's going on?

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