Breeding Journal (Jackie and Sniper)

SilverSage

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So I paired Jackie and Sniper to breed for a few reasons.

-They are both very nice sized birds, and both shaped nicely. I like to breed for a good middle sized cockatiel that is going to be sturdy without hitting the floor like a rock when clipped properly. I have seen cockatiels that were as small as 62 grams, as well as some extremely huge ones, and neither is ideal.

-Neither has any obvious defects, and neither has problems with obsessive laying, or any known relatives with that problem.

-Both are "normal grey" and split to pied (and MAYBE white face? Pairing her sister with his brother produced a white face chick, so it's possible). Pairing certain mutations "visual to visual" can produce issues, and breeding in normal greys strengthens the line. I am hoping to produce "true normals" from them; cockatiels NOT SPLIT to anything.

-Both have OUTSTANDING crests :)

-Both have nice personalities even though neither is tame. He is quite vocal and sweet, and she is very steady and hard to ruffle.

-Both were parent raised on aviaries, meaning they know what the rearing of chicks is like, at least in as much as it at least happened to them. Also, Sniper has helped raise clutches in his previous home, though he never fathered any. It also means both fledged properly which is VERY important to me, both because of the physical health of the bird as well as the mental. It also means they know how to interact with other birds and can teach their babies. It also increased their chance of accepting a mate without problem.

-They are highly bonded to one another, which greatly decreases the chance of mate violence and chick violence.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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When I paired them for the first time, they took to each other IMMEDIATELY, unlike a lot of birds do. They had been next to each other for several weeks, and I put them both into a cage neither one had ever seen before, in a room neither had ever been in before. Of course, after I take all those precautions, they go and start mating within 90 seconds. Not normal at all.

That first time I let them go down, they produced 3 babies and they all died due to my own negligence. I usually weigh each baby and examine each baby daily, but a few days after the last hatch my inlaws got into town and I got super busy. I still looked in the box each day and made sure they had food in their crops, but I wasn't being meticulous, and didn't notice when they all developed yeast in the crop, which is especially common in cockatiels, and even more so in this humid climate. I lost the whole clutch and didn't let them go down again at that time.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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I waited 6 months which is standard before setting them up again. Sometimes I allow double clutching, but I don't like to after the first clutch. During that time we moved, which can REALLY throw a wrench in things. My other pair refused to breed in the new house, but Jackie and Sniper seem to be completely impossible to fluster. I gave them the box once I felt everything was settled to the point that I had the time to put in.

Sniper, ever the eager beaver, started working the box right away, unlike all my other pairs ever, which have all taken several days to several weeks before deciding to go there.

Lots of cockatiels will wait to "sit tight" on the nest until they stop laying (cockatiels lay an egg every other day), which is actually GREAT because the egg waits to start developing until it gets incubated. If the hen waits, then all the babies hatch close together. If a hen lays 5 eggs and they all hatch every other day, by the time the last baby hatches, the first one might be 10 times his size, which makes it hard for the youngest to survive. Unfortunately Jackie sits tight starting days before she even lays an egg :p


She laid four eggs, and the first three all started developing right away. I thought the fourth was infertile, because it didn't start developing right away. Well then it started, but it was weird, only developing in part of the egg. At first I thought maybe the rest of the egg was full of air, but then I saw an actual air cell developing. That egg did not survive. I will have to keep an eye out to see if this pair produces more eggs with that problem.


This was after it started to develop more normally, but you can still see that it is very "lopsided" for lack of a better word. At first the veins were not branching out of that small area at all.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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The level of humidity is really important to the eggs, but Sniper chew to pieces any kind of monitor I try to use in the box. I give Jackie a bowl to bathe in, and some hens will control the humidity by bathing.

The weather changed a few days before hatch going from really hot to nice and cool. When the first egg pipped, he got about 1/3 of the way around the egg and then stopped making progress. I monitored him for 14 hours. No progress, but his squeaking was getting weaker. I decided to assist hatch. It has to be done in a certain way and is very very risky. Fortunately he was very ready to come out and I didn't screw it up! The low humidity seemed to have dried out the membrane which basically glued him into place, preventing him from hatching on his own. Once I freed him on the piece on his back, he literally POPPED OUT INTO MY HAND which scared the life out of me because I hadn't had a chance to make sure his yoke was all the way absorbed yet, but it was, thank God! So I called him Buster because he busted out. He has dark eyes, yellow down, and clear nails, so I think he is pied.

I am saving the egg shells for the future owners :)
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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I also had to assist the second chick, however when I opened the egg he was not yet ready to come out. It was an all night process, there was blood, it was terrifying, and I spent the whole night fighting with my brooder!

*I use an Aviquarium 10. I have friends who have had a lot of luck with this product, but mine is a pain in the rear. It is temperamental and unreliable; I am replacing it. I am worried I will need it before I can afford to replace it. While the baby was hatching I had to open and close the lid, turn the dial up and down, and do a bunch of other stuff to try to keep the temp as close to 98 degrees as I could, but it was not very cooperative!

When I got him out, his intestines were black (the skin is transparent) indicating that he was dehydrated. I almost vomited, because I knew that meant I needed to give fluids. The last time I gave anything to a chick that young he aspirated and died because their crops are so so so so tiny, and I got distracted for literally a micro second, and gave him half a drop too much. I am not exaggerating. But this little guy needed fluids. Fortunately I bought Pipettes so I didn't have to use a syringe. It went fine, I gave him literally a drop and a half, and put him back in the nest. I was afraid his parents would reject him because he had been gone ALL NIGHT, but they took him right back. He also has dark eyes, yellow down, and clear nails, so I think he is pied, too. But I think there might be something different about his eyes... I will have to see when they open. Maybe mom and dad are hiding a mutation I don't know about :)

The third egg, which I had actually thought was dead because he stopped moving for 2 days inside the egg, hatched naturally on his own. I keep forgetting to look at his nails, but his down is yellow and his eyes are dark, so I expect either normal grey or pied.


This picture was taken while the third egg was hatching. Buster and Boomer kept him warm even when mom and dad were off the nest :)


Pile of babies!
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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Each baby hatched at 4 grams and is gaining weight, but I noticed that the parents are not feeding the runny mush they should be feeding, but are feeding the thicker mix with seeds visible that they should start feeding later.

Before you freak out that I am feeding them seed, seed is a natural part of the diet of a bird from the grasslands like cockatiels, and they need the fat content for breeding.

But, since they are not digesting the seeds enough before feeding, I had to take them away entirely and leave them only with the pellets, egg food, and fresh food. I may supplement a feeding or two with high fat formula just to get the babies the extra fat that they need right now.

The bellies are transparent, so I could actually watch the seeds moving through the digestive tract of the babies... it was cool to watch.

In this picture you can see the naval opening (which is closed at this point) which is where they draw in the yoke. I actually had the incredible experience of candling the egg while he was doing so, and I could see his little feet braced on either side of the yoke and listen to him peep with each contraction as he sucked it in. For a few days you can stlll see it through the skin, and it is the visible yellow spot in this picture. I was looking to see that his intestines were no longer black, but you can see the black in his crop where his parents have feed him not-digested-enough seed, though it had not yet started through his gut. You can also see his little egg tooth :)

 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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To elaborate on the size issue; Buster, the oldest baby, is 18 grams today. Beaker, the youngest, is only 6 grams. Beaker is not able to compete on the same level for food, and I will have to keep a special eye on him. In fact, he has gained only half the weight I would have hoped today, as he was 4 grams when he hatched, and we like to see a baby gain at least their hatch weight each day. We will see if he gains a more appropriate weight over the next 12 hours, perhaps the low weight gain is due to the seed issue that I mentioned before, and hopefully the issue will resolve itself now that the seed is removed. If not I will have to assist feed, and maybe pull him all together which I really hope to avoid at this age (He is only on day 2 out of his shell).

Also, he has dark eyes, yellow down, and dark nails; probably a normal grey. I really will try to get pictures up later today if I can.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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Size difference between Buster, hatched 10/27 and Beaker, hatched 10/30 (notice they did not hatch every other day)



 

eddieparrot5

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Woow! Amazing, first time I seen cockatiels hatch!

Thank you so much for illustrating me

[emoji4]
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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No problem. I'm still a fairly new breeder, but I figure so many times people get jumped on (usually rightfully so) when they ask questions about breeding, maybe I would share a little of the day to day stuff.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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Breeders often say how frustrating and heartbreaking breeding can be, but don't elaborate. That's why I am sharing with all of you.

Right now I have a baby who isn't growing. His siblings are 23 and 28 grams each, yet even with a full crop he is barely 8 grams. His parents are feeding, he is pooping, I don't know why he isn't growing. If he wasn't being fed I would simply take him and feed him myself, but he IS being fed, and I don't know why he isn't thriving. He appears to be free of infection, infestation, injury, or other complication.

On the lighter side of things, the oldest two babies now each have ONE eye open, but not both!
 

Aquila

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Breeders often say how frustrating and heartbreaking breeding can be, but don't elaborate. That's why I am sharing with all of you.

Right now I have a baby who isn't growing. His siblings are 23 and 28 grams each, yet even with a full crop he is barely 8 grams. His parents are feeding, he is pooping, I don't know why he isn't growing. If he wasn't being fed I would simply take him and feed him myself, but he IS being fed, and I don't know why he isn't thriving. He appears to be free of infection, infestation, injury, or other complication.

On the lighter side of things, the oldest two babies now each have ONE eye open, but not both!

Are you using a high energy formula? I've also read that you can add a few drops of pedialyte to help with hydration which can sometimes help with absorption, as well as increasing the temperature a little bit. Wish I knew what was going on with the little guy. :(
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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He is with his parents, and the other two babies are thriving. I have given pedialyte just in case, but he is not exhibiting signs of dehydration.
 

Mariar

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Wow Dani that's amazing! I hope the best for the little one please keep us updated..I love reading your journal!
 
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SilverSage

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Sorry for the long stretch between updates, things have been crazy around here lately.

Beaker did not survive. He failed to gain weight even after dehydration, infection, injury, infestation, and neglect had been ruled out. I believe something was wrong before he even hatched. If you re,e,her me saying previously, he didn't move for two days inside his shell before hatching, while most birds can be seen moving during that time.

Buster and Boomer are doing great, but their parents were stuffing their crops too full. I caught it right away and decided to pull for hand feeding. Technically I could have put crop bras on them and left them with their parents, but I was nervous about the adults catching their feet in the bras and injuring the babies and/or themselves.

Fortunately my brooder is being much more cooperative. My replacement has not yet arrived.

When the parents over fill the crop, the stretch it in such a way that makes it too loose and let's a pouch fall below the opening to the digestive tract. This results in food sitting in that little pouch and spoiling instead if bring digested, and can poison the baby. To treat this I put crop bras on to hold the bottom of the crop in place, and I feed smaller means more often.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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Here is a video of the little guys last night.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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They are wiggly and don't like to sit still for pictures but I try!


Here is the crop bra made out of vet wrap and modeled by Boomer

 

Dopey

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Thank you so much for sharing.
I've noticed that people do get blasted for breeding or wanting to breed.
I appreciate the fact that you still let us see into your world.
In your notes I noticed something that not many people talk about and that is how important the humidity is when breeding. You also talk about the temperature. I've just noticed that throughout the reading that I've done it's not really emphasized enough.
Again, thanks for sharing.
 

Mariar

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Sorry about beaker, but the other two are amazing! Thank you again for sharing that part of your life with us.
 
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SilverSage

SilverSage

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This will be my final update. I haven't shared in a while because it has been a whirlwind, especially emotionally.

I would like to emphasize that I am not an expert breeder by any means. I am a novice. I research my heart out, harass people my experienced than myself, I sacrifice money, time, and sleep, I give my heart to each baby. Yet even with all that I have barely scratched the surface of the knowledge I wish I had.

I learned a lot with this clutch. I'm not attacking anyone or trying to be mean, but this clutch is a prime example of why I feel that breeding as a hobby is irresponsible. I lost this whole clutch. I have lost other babies as well. Each issue teaches me something new and prevents the same from happening to future clutches, but it wouldn't be worth it if I wasn't in it for the long haul, committed to learning and using the knowledge I gain for the benefit of the species and parrot lovers.

Like I said, I lost the whole clutch. Beaker had issues even from inside the egg. I don't yet know why that happened. Boomer and Buster had stuffed crops, a common problem for new parents, and since I had dealt with the problem before, I knew how to handle it and did so easily. I spotted the first signs of yeast in the crop, very common in cockatiels in this climate, and treated it within hours of development. Again, been there, learned that. But they both suddenly stopped growing. I increased the frequency of feelings. Then the crop slowed drastically in both babies, and they started to lose weight. I treated for sour crop with the same method I have in the past, but to no avail. All the measurements, temps, amounts, etc, were right, but still no growth. Babies lost weight (time to emphasize again that weight monitoring is important and you MUST do it), I called the vet. I was stunned to find Boomer dead when I went to retrieve him for the appointment. Buster and I rushed across the island because clearly the baby had a problem that I had no idea how to deal with. The vet asked a hundred questions, we both were baffled. We brain stormed, but didn't come up with any viable ideas. We did a gram stain, as I was sure I had missed some terrible thing, convinced emotionally that somehow my negligence had led to a terrible health crisis and I was killing my babies with a newbie mistake.


Nope. No yeast, no bacteria... WOOD FIBERS in the digestive tract! One of the babies had decided to eat the wood chips, and the other must have followed suit, as parrots are known to do. Boomer likely suffered digestive trauma as well as the nutrient blocking and crop slowing effects of the wood. Yes, I was using appropriate bedding, this was the first time he vet had seen this.

I switched the bedding to paper towels and increased feeding frequency for 24 hours (not letting the crop empty completely between, trying to flush out the wood). I treated with herbal supplements to prevent bacteria growth during that time, and then went back to normal feeding with aloe (I AM NOT GIVING VET ADVICE, IM JUST SAYING WHAT I DID).
Immediately Buster flourished, he started to gain weight, perked up, and was "catching up" to his milestones. And then he died in the night the day before thanksgiving. His little body was too weakened, or the damage was worse than we knew, or something I did killed him.

I learned a lot, I broke my heart, I lost a clutch. Now I know more than I did, and now you know a little bit more of the struggles that can go on while someone learns how the heck to raise baby birds. This is only a snapshot.

I spent $200 on just vet bills, n it including any of the other costs. His adoption fee would have been less than half that. Yet I still get accused of being "in it for the money" hhmmm.... Some people aren't good at math.
 

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