Parrot Forum Header Left  
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Community > Breeding/Raising Parrots

Breeding/Raising Parrots A place for the discussion of breeding and raising baby parrots.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:33 AM
Member
Parrots:
Fergus; a male Solomon Island Eclectus
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: QLD Australia
Thanks: 46
Thanked 57 Times in 29 Posts
ScottB is on a distinguished road
Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Hi all,

Recently bought an Eclectus parrot from a breeder who gave him a "brutal" single wing clip. My boy eventually fractured his sternum.
I was quite upset about this and sent a txt to the breeder, but incredibly she stands by the clip claiming "its the safest way".
Apparently she is more than happy to debate her stance on a firym such as this so I am asking for the knowledge and experience that I know is out there to help me put this together and dish out a damn good education!
Really not interested in "bashing" this breeder, I really do hope that she will stop, and besides maybe there are others out there who support this practice?
Let me know your thoughts.
Scott.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ScottB For This Useful Post:
Billdore (09-23-2018), Terry57  (08-28-2018)
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 07:11 AM
wrench13's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Yellow Shoulder Amazon, Salty
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: long island, ny
Thanks: 338
Thanked 10,350 Times in 4,041 Posts
wrench13 is on a distinguished road
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Single wing clips have been actively discouraged in aviculture for at least a decade. And any wing clip described as 'brutal' is downright cruelty to animals level. Sorry your Ekkie was harmed by this barbaric practice, which ranks with splitting a parrots tongue to make them talk better, notching beaks and use of leg chains as practices of a by-gone era.
__________________
See ALL Salty's Parrot trick videos on our CaptNiceGuy Channel:
https://m.youtube.com/user/captniceg...8ZwKHVY_AsI%3D
AL & Salty - hard at work.

Follow Salty's 107 page lifestory thread:
http://www.parrotforums.com/amazons/...now-salty.html

The Crew:
Salty - YSA - hatched 8/15/15
Geri - Blond haired Queens wife , birthday unknown
Tinker - Cairn terrier, 4/15/08
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to wrench13 For This Useful Post:
Feathered14 (05-19-2019), ScottB (08-27-2018), Terry57  (08-27-2018)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 07:35 AM
Senior Member
Parrots:
Umbrella Cockatoo- 11 years old
Join Date: Jul 2018
Thanks: 3,293
Thanked 5,594 Times in 2,255 Posts
noodles123 will become famous soon enough
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

People used to split parrot tongues? I can't see how this would ever improve talking....

Hey man, you are pretty quiet today, so we are going to cut your tongue in half. That will really make the words flow if you survive the pain+ bleeding and assuming is is physiologically possible for you to coordinate the 2 severed halves....

What the heck....


As far a wing-clipping---I have never clipped mine, but in some cases, I can see where it is a protective measure (not the 1-wing clip, but clipping in general) for the bird....I am not totally opposed to the idea in other birds (if done properly and for the safety of the bird)...I mean, a broken neck isn't helping anybody.

Last edited by noodles123; 08-27-2018 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to noodles123 For This Useful Post:
ScottB (08-27-2018)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 09:17 AM
itzjbean's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Boo, Rue, Ash & Ember - 4 cockatiels
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Iowa, USA
Thanks: 2,854
Thanked 3,590 Times in 1,593 Posts
itzjbean is on a distinguished road
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

My weaned baby cockatiel came to me with both his wings clipped.

He still tries to fly and can go short distances, (can get around 3-5 feet before losing lift and landing on the ground) but I think the idea of wing-clipping is not to cut off their entire ability to fly, just give you enough control so that you can easily keep them where they need them to be and prevent them from being somewhere they shouldn't. It's to keep the bird safe and from you chasing after a panicked flighted bird around the living room.

When you cut only one wing, you throw off the balance of the bird so much. With one wing completely able to fly, and the other cut, it doesn't help, but hinder them completely in flight. At least with both wings clipped, they have a chance to flap and get somewhere close by, where as if one wing is clipped, it can and will cause injuries such as you have described from being SO lopsided and their balance thrown way off.

All birds can and should fly....safely without causing injuries to themselves. You can accomplish this with both wings being clipped so they keep their balance but just lose the lift.
__________________
- Jackie, Boo Rue , Ash & Ember

See more of my flock on Instagram!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to itzjbean For This Useful Post:
QueenInnocent (06-29-2019), ScottB (08-27-2018), Terry57  (08-27-2018)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 09:43 AM
EllenD's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: State College, PA
Thanks: 6,495
Thanked 7,538 Times in 3,076 Posts
EllenD will become famous soon enough
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Any breeder who thinks that it's safe to only clip one wing on a bird should not be breeding birds. Period. This should be common sense. Have they not seen how a bird with one wing clipped moves around and tries to fly? They can hardly walk balanced because their weight is completely thrown off. And forget about trying to "glide" to the ground, they actually plummet to the ground, and they are usually on their side, head, tail, etc. when they land because they have no balance at all. So all any person who thinks that clipping one wing is a good thing needs to do is to simply watch a bird with one wing clipped. That should be more than enough to prove to them that they are only setting the bird up for a serious injury any time they need to get to the ground. You can't keep any bird from trying to fly, clipped or not, so they also need to be able to land safely, not upside down and sideways.

This should be common sense, not brain surgery, especially for a breeder...
__________________
"Dance Like Nobody's Watching".
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to EllenD For This Useful Post:
Flboy Supporting Member (08-29-2018), ScottB (08-27-2018), Terry57  (08-27-2018), TiredOldMan Supporting Member (08-27-2018)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:00 PM
Banned
Parrots:
Sunny a female B&G macaw; Japie (m) & Appie (f), both are congo african grey; All are rescues- had to leave their previous homes for 'reasons', are still in contact with them :)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: NL= the Netherlands, Europe
Thanks: 4,355
Thanked 7,762 Times in 2,755 Posts
ChristaNL is on a distinguished road
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Just to put it in a verrrrrry general setting:

Not being able to move symmetrical (and develop both sets of large muscles evenly) will cause spine deformities fast - so why do you want your still growing babies deformed?

That is not only cruel, but also bad business -> do you want to be known as the person who deliberately causes deformations in birds and sells them broken?

Any clip that causes bird to break or fracture a keel/bones/beak is way too severe -- it is simple physics.
Also a no-brainer I would think (and also animal cruelty: to restrict an animal in such a way it causes self-harm).
.


Cliiping birds wings while still verry young is already proven to be a bad move - it stunts their development (physical and psycological).
They can be just as easily tamed while fully flighted - there is plenty of information out there how to do so; this is no longer "a trade secret" or something "only for professionals".


So it is complete unnecessery and detrimental to their health (short term and long term)

Last edited by ChristaNL; 08-27-2018 at 12:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ChristaNL For This Useful Post:
EllenD (08-27-2018), MonicaMc (09-23-2018), ScottB (08-27-2018), Terry57  (08-28-2018)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:38 PM
Member
Parrots:
Fergus; a male Solomon Island Eclectus
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: QLD Australia
Thanks: 46
Thanked 57 Times in 29 Posts
ScottB is on a distinguished road
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Hi all,

Thank you all for the opinions so far, please keep them coming. I appreciate that some people do clip, and the multitude of "safer" bilateral clips available; however this thread is all about the practice of SINGLE wing clipping and the issues it can cause

I had a bit of back and forth with the breeder via txt last night and she remains adamant that a single wing clip is the way, and also states that she would look forward to debating this with anyone on this forum; any takers?

I will try to figure out how to copy those txt messages so that you can all take a look.

Thanks again,
Scott.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ScottB For This Useful Post:
Terry57  (08-27-2018)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:41 PM
Terry57's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Hawkhead(Darwin),YCA(Dexter),VE (Ekko),OWA(Slater),BHP(Talli),DYH(Calypso),RLA(Kimera),Alex(Xander)CBC(Phoe),IRN (Kodee,Luna,Stevie),WCP (Pisces),CAG(Justice)GCC (Jax), GSC2(Charley)
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spruce Grove,Alberta, Canada
Thanks: 66,510
Thanked 59,889 Times in 20,180 Posts
Terry57 is on a distinguished road
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Send her on over here, I am sure many people would love to have this debate with her.
However, she does not seem like a person who would listen to anything reasonable people have to say. What a shame for the babies she breeds.
__________________


In rescuing birds, I lost my mind but found my soul.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Terry57 For This Useful Post:
Flboy Supporting Member (08-29-2018), itzjbean (08-27-2018), ScottB (08-28-2018), TiredOldMan Supporting Member (08-27-2018)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:58 PM
EllenD's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: State College, PA
Thanks: 6,495
Thanked 7,538 Times in 3,076 Posts
EllenD will become famous soon enough
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

Oh yes, please do send her over here. I really honestly would love to hear her backing this up, and I'd also like to educate her so she can stop hurting birds...

Out of curiosity, if she truly thinks that clipping only one wing is safe, good, the best way, etc., then what did she have to say about your baby already having a fractured keel bone along with already having a curvature in his spine? That's either due to her only clipping one-wing, or she's breeding baby birds with horrible congenital defects...or allowing her babies to fledge in a very dangerous way. Any way you slice it, she's doing something very, very wrong. If I were her, I'd admit that it was due to the single-wing clipping and leave it at that, because the alternative bode much, much worse for her as a breeder!

And what Christa was commenting on was the fact that this woman is a breeder (and a bad one at that), and you have no idea at what age she clipped your bird, or any of her birds...And when a breeder clips the wings of a baby bird before they fully fledge, then they typically end-up never learning to fly properly, which not only results in physical problems, but it causes life-long psychological, neurological, and behavioral issues, just as Force-Weaning baby birds instead of Abundance-Weaning does. So the point is something that you need to really think about, understand, and consider...You brought home what you thought was a healthy, hand-raised baby bird. And your baby was still quite young when you brought him home from the breeder, correct? And even though your baby bird was still quite young when you brought him home, he had ALREADY suffered from a broken keel bone (that actually had the time to start healing before you brought him home) and a curvature in his spine...So the point Christa is making for your benefit is that it's extremely likely, simply based on the timeline, that this breeder not only did a single-wing clipping on your bird that resulted in a broken keel bone and a curvature developing in his spine due to the stress on one-side of muscles, but this breeder ALSO very likely clipped your bird's wing, singular, "wing", before he fledged...And you have yet to see the possibly devastating effects of that particular mistake...
__________________
"Dance Like Nobody's Watching".
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to EllenD For This Useful Post:
itzjbean (08-27-2018), LordTriggs (08-28-2018), ScottB (08-28-2018), Terry57  (08-28-2018), TiredOldMan Supporting Member (08-27-2018)
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2018, 04:33 AM
Banned
Parrots:
Sunny a female B&G macaw; Japie (m) & Appie (f), both are congo african grey; All are rescues- had to leave their previous homes for 'reasons', are still in contact with them :)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: NL= the Netherlands, Europe
Thanks: 4,355
Thanked 7,762 Times in 2,755 Posts
ChristaNL is on a distinguished road
Re: Breeder uses single wing clip open to debate

LOL, yes...you may send her anything about what I said.

I am not a professional breeder (have asisted in handfeeding etc. of course); but I am a fully fledged physiotherapist with years and years of birdkeeping and some bird-rehab experience.
So I know my way around anatomy, muscle functions etc.etc. and issues that may have impact on normal development and functionality.

And I am appalled about this level of baby-bird abusing.
Even my non-parrot-savvy friend remarked yesterday (he donated a spare monitor) " I would have set the animal-cruelty-controll-people on her".

Last edited by ChristaNL; 08-28-2018 at 04:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ChristaNL For This Useful Post:
EllenD (08-28-2018), ScottB (08-28-2018)
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Community > Breeding/Raising Parrots

Tags
clipping, single-wing clip

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wing clip Sasha General Health Care 6 02-19-2015 02:24 AM
Bad wing clip lisascannell Budgies/Parakeets 9 09-26-2013 06:09 PM
Would a wing clip help?? INDI Budgies/Parakeets 6 09-19-2011 03:17 PM
Wing clip... suncon97 General Parrot Information 30 09-12-2011 04:50 PM
wing clip burley Macaws 7 04-24-2010 02:19 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.