Sour Crop?

jourdy · Aug 30, 2011

Hi, would just like to ask. Do you guys think this is sour crop? Seems like my baby tiel's crop is never going empty. There's always a lump. He poops frequently and seems to always beg for food.

He is now 15 days old.

Some pictures. I can see a few red veins where the supposed sour crop is located.

I have had a tiel before and currently handfeeding 2 sun conures without any problem.. I am feeding him Zupreem Embrace 5x a day 4-6CC.

Thanks in advance for your help. Would be very much appreciated.

Here is a video of the handfeeding.
[ame=http://youtu.be/eH4cOugVcLM]Handfeeding cockatiel[/ame]

Pedro · Aug 30, 2011

It's hard to tell whether or not it has sour crop. I don't think so though. By the looks of things the formula is to thick for the age of the chick, also the volume should be increased a little each feed & cut back to 4 feeds a day.

jourdy · Aug 30, 2011

Thanks for the info. Does that mean I have to make it more liquid?

henpecked · Aug 30, 2011

What temp is your brooder? Does the crop ever empty ? Can't tell if you need formula thinner or not.You can give pedilite if it looks dehydrated or if needed.

Pedro · Aug 30, 2011

Handfeeding Cockatiels, Hand Feeding Cockatiels, baby birds, chicks, Crop Burn, Punctured Esophagus, Slow Gut, Sour Crop, Aspiration, Pneumonia, Aspergilliosis, Candidiasis, Yeast Infections, Subcutaneous Emphysema, Unweaned Baby Birds, handfeeding b

Hi Jourdy, yes i would err on a thinner mixture, it should be the consistancy of pouring cream or if you draw a fork through the mixture it falls through & formula doesn't stick to the fork. If the formula is to thick the chick can draw the liquid from it & is left with a bit of what feels like a hard ball in the crop. Usually if you massage the crop at each feed you can break it up. If left you risk a compacted crop.

Good Luck.

Conurekidd · Aug 30, 2011

No that doesn look like sour crop. Sour crop you will know.
Iv never had it with any of mine. but the chicks crop won't empty that much.
Also there attitude is much different. He seems to be healthy and fine IMO.

As for the formula. I'll leave that to the experts. IMO I would use a thinner consistency.
But that's just me. Gorgeous little one!!

jourdy · Aug 30, 2011

Thank you for all your help. I have made his formula the same consistency as KFC gravy.. is that okay? I have noticed that Zupreem Embrace dries a bit quickly though.. so I have to prepare a really wet consistency (while hot) and it dries up while it cools a bit.

His crop doesn't empty thoroughly. There's always a 1/2" diameter lump or 2, so sometimes I wait for it to empty but it never does. Then the chick gets really hungry and begs like a dinosaur.

I tried massaging the lump before every meal and after a bit of feeding to try and loosen the lump if it is indeed sour crop. However, I am afraid since there's a part that feels like a giant vein or organ.. Not really sure hehe.

As for the brooder, this is only a makeshift brooder I made. I live in the Philippines and we don't have as much access to supplies.. I am not sure of the temperature but I provide a heating pad and make sure they don't shiver or pant. The heating pad is on one side of the brooder, blocked by a fence.

Day to day temperature in the tropical Philippines is around 90F, but lately the weather is a bit cool, lingering around 81-82F.

Here's a picture of the brooder:

henpecked · Aug 30, 2011

I'd have to check with my wife,but i think you need to target around 96F at that age.Much cooler will help cause that slow crop. LOVE the PI ,I'm there every year in Feb/Mar,Love it love, love it.,,Good Luck with the babies

Conurekidd · Aug 30, 2011

Yea your right henpecked. Here's a link
Handfeeding Step-By-Step

jourdy · Aug 30, 2011

Thanks for your help. That's the website I use as guideline, however I can't really tell if my tiel has sour crop or not. Hehe.

Conurekidd · Aug 31, 2011

No he doesn. He wouldnt eat alot and you will definitely know. The link will help you prevent sour crop. If your feeding the right concictency and the right temp plus the brooders at the right temp. Sour crop shouldn't occur.

Pedro · Aug 31, 2011

Jourdy, i also live in a tropical climate & i wouldn't have a teil chick of that age on any heat at all. Can i ask why your 2 chicks are seperate. It would be a good idea to put them in the box together so they keep each other warm. All i do with my chicks is start off with a small box & as the chicks get bigger so does the box i use. All i need is to keep a towel over the box & the chick huddle together & their body heat will keep them warm. If they are syblings you could be causing them more stress by keeping them separate.

I really think that your chicks are OK & don't have a sour crop at all, i just think its the formula as i explained in my first post. If your baby did have sour crop it just wouldn't empty out at all. The fact that you have said there is a hard lump in the bottom of the crop tells me its sediment from the rearing food that the chick hasn't digested yet. If its such a big worry to you just syringe a little water before you feed him & massage the lump & try to break it up, then feed the formula. You will have to do this every feed.

Conurekidd · Aug 31, 2011

What's your brooder temps? It kinda scary to hear 'no heat a all'.
Babies NEED some kind of heat sorce until the tubes pop. And try can warm there selves. I live in an EXTREAMLLY hot and humid climate. And still I must use a heat mat to keep my babies warm and toasty. They need warmth to not only digest but grow. Too low of tempatures will stunt the growth. And that SUX!!!

Pedro · Aug 31, 2011

Conurekid did you not read my post correctly. The chicks create their own body heat in order to keep warm. Parrots also have a higher body heat than we humans.
I have a clutch of not quiet 2 week old Alexandrines in the brooder & the temp is set at 83 degrees F. If inside brooder temp is the same temp at your house there is no reason to have a chick in a brooder under heat. However if the temp drops to low over night then yes you need some heat if chicks don't create enough for themselves.

I watch what the parents do & take note at what age the chicks are when the hen spends more & more time out of the nest box.

When you have been doing things for as long as i have you pick up some good ideas along the way & i must say i have changed my whole idea of how to raise a baby parrot by just observing what the hen does. It works very well for me, my chicks are all very healthy & of good quality.

Like for instance a 15 day old teil in my care would hold 15 mls in it crop & be fed 4 times a day, by the time he is 3 to 4 weeks old the crop would hold close to 20 - 25 mls & i would drop to 3 feeds a day at 25mls a feed. Once fledged drop down to 2 feeds a day & offer a variety of weaning soft foods. Most teils are weaned between 10 to 12 weeks.

All it really takes is commonsense & experience & know what your doing.

Oh by the way when the Alex chicks reach 3 weeks old i will turn the brooder off, they will be fine in their little toy box just covered with a baby blanket.

jourdy · Aug 31, 2011

Thanks for your help, the both of you. At least I'm not as concerned as I was before.

As for why the chicks are separated: When I got the Tiel, he was only 10 days old so I had to separate them or else he would get trampled by the then 3 week old Sun Conure. I tried putting them together before, and I always see the Conure 'charging' the Tiel. I am not familiar with the behavior and I thought the Tiel would get crushed. It's as if the Conure keeps rushing towards the Tiel making chirping sounds. It may not be malicious but I was afraid of the Tiel getting crushed.

Also, my Tiel is a bit f a runt I think. According to the breeder, he was born Aug 15 (it's Sept 1 here now) so he's on his 17th day right now.

Here's a pic:

Here's how he looks like before standing up. He stretches his legs so far in front of him before standing up. He's still clumsy..

In comparison, here's my 26-day-old Sun Conure.

Should I try putting them together?

brighteyes · Aug 31, 2011

are you able to take your bird to a vet ? Hope all goes well very sweet baby !

Pedro · Sep 1, 2011

Should I try putting them together?

As long as the two chicks are healthy I see no reason they can't huddle together. Normally at their ages they should just eat, sleep & grow. To feel if they are warm enough without heat just have to pick them up to feel their body heat, if your babies a warm to touch they are generating enough body heat without extra heat.

Baby parrots don't grow very quick until the 2 week, then they just power on. Your little teil does seem to be a little on the thin side but i think that could be because of a thicker formula & not really increasing the volume fed each feed to increase the size of the crop. Other than that your teil looks very healthy, it has a nice pink color to the skin & it's bright eyes. The sun also looks nice & healthy. So as far as the pics show your doing a fine job my friend.

henpecked · Sep 1, 2011

This might be kind of late but what temp is your formula?

Conurekidd · Sep 1, 2011

Pedro said:
Conurekid did you not read my post correctly. The chicks create their own body heat in order to keep warm. Parrots also have a higher body heat than we humans.
I have a clutch of not quiet 2 week old Alexandrines in the brooder & the temp is set at 83 degrees F. If inside brooder temp is the same temp at your house there is no reason to have a chick in a brooder under heat. However if the temp drops to low over night then yes you need some heat if chicks don't create enough for themselves.

I watch what the parents do & take note at what age the chicks are when the hen spends more & more time out of the nest box.

When you have been doing things for as long as i have you pick up some good ideas along the way & i must say i have changed my whole idea of how to raise a baby parrot by just observing what the hen does. It works very well for me, my chicks are all very healthy & of good quality.

Like for instance a 15 day old teil in my care would hold 15 mls in it crop & be fed 4 times a day, by the time he is 3 to 4 weeks old the crop would hold close to 20 - 25 mls & i would drop to 3 feeds a day at 25mls a feed. Once fledged drop down to 2 feeds a day & offer a variety of weaning soft foods. Most teils are weaned between 10 to 12 weeks.

All it really takes is commonsense & experience & know what your doing.

Oh by the way when the Alex chicks reach 3 weeks old i will turn the brooder off, they will be fine in their little toy box just covered with a baby blanket.

Wow you have a hot house. I read your post perfectly fine why??
I was referring to the op. I'm kinda confused in why you posted the long post like I didn know. Very informative though and prime example!! However I know lol. I do things alot differently on my opinions from obsevering the hen (pretty cool I do the same!). But everyone is different. I was only helping. Explaining what low Temps are capable of doing. that's all

. I turn the brooder off at 3 weeks too!

jourdy · Sep 2, 2011

brighteyes said:
are you able to take your bird to a vet ? Hope all goes well very sweet baby !

Haven't been able to bring her to a vet yet.. I've called up 4 different veterinarians but all of them specializes in dogs and cats.. thus I have no choice but to ask in the forums. Hehe.

Thanks for the concern, he/she seems to be growing faster now compared to before. Also seems to be less of the begging screams.

Pedro said:
As long as the two chicks are healthy I see no reason they can't huddle together. Normally at their ages they should just eat, sleep & grow. To feel if they are warm enough without heat just have to pick them up to feel their body heat, if your babies a warm to touch they are generating enough body heat without extra heat.

Baby parrots don't grow very quick until the 2 week, then they just power on. Your little teil does seem to be a little on the thin side but i think that could be because of a thicker formula & not really increasing the volume fed each feed to increase the size of the crop. Other than that your teil looks very healthy, it has a nice pink color to the skin & it's bright eyes. The sun also looks nice & healthy. So as far as the pics show your doing a fine job my friend.

Thanks for all your help. I put them together for almost 2 days now. They cuddle at night and then at opposite sides during the daytime. I remember, I also separated them before so I can monitor the poop of the cockatiel. When I pick them up I can feel their bottoms are a bit warm.

He/she is doing better now. I made the formula a bit more wet and I noticed the crop is draining much faster than before.

henpecked said:
This might be kind of late but what temp is your formula?

40 degrees Celsius before I put the formula in the syringe.

Updated pics:

Dad is a lutino, mom is yellow face heavy pied (mostly yellow with gray line on wings). It's apparent this guy is a pied as well. Will we be able to know his/her gender?

Sour Crop?

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they might mate

Got a new budgie...

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