Introducing Eight, the Elderly Budgie!

I wanted to make a thread to celebrate my new flock member, an elderly budgie by the name of Eight!

I adopted Eight several weeks ago from a small, local bird store who kept him as a breeder bird. Fran, the store owner was extremely nice when I came in inquiring about birds for adoption. She did not have any but let me hang around to socialize with the parrots. Later, she took me in the backroom and showed me a lone budgie in a top shelf cage, numbered "8". His mate recently passed and did not seem socialized. He was in his twilight years according to Fran. She offered to let me adopt him at no cost.

I knew I wanted to adopt but I was hoping for a fairly younger or middle aged bird. I wasn't sure I was ready to get attached to a bird only to lose him in a too short time. Losing my beloved budgie Kiki was traumatic I decided to go for it anyway. I'm going to give this old bird a comfortable, hopefully happy, retirement. Fran packed some of his toys, treats and food totally free even though I insisted to pay for them. She also offered forever free bird grooming. I just bought a few flock supplies (I didn't really quite need) as a gesture of thanks. He never had a name so she suggested I name him Eight after his cage number. I thought that was perfect. I saw Fran's kindness as a sign that hopefully I made the right decision in adopting Eight.

Recently, Eight passed quarantine and was introduced to Pewpew. They seem to like each other's company. I may have even caught them regurgitating seed nearby each other (but not feeding each other). Eight seems completely averse to human contact. That's okay, he's made some improvements in that he'd let me clean inside the cage and perches without totally freaking out. He also now beak grinds when I baby talk him. In time, hopefully he will learn to fear me less. He is also a very clumsy flier - running into things, crash landing and panic flying. Understandable since he spent all his early years as a breeder inside a cage. For his safety, I'm letting him get used to the place before allowing too much outside cage time. Hopefully he will get better at flying so he can enjoy it in his remaining years. I don't know his age (Fran was not sure) but he seems quite a strong, hardy bird.

Thank you for listening to my long, rambling introduction! Please cross your fingers for this elderly parakeet. I hope he has many years left to spend with me and the flock. Photos below and more to come soon! PS. Eight is colored ash-blue. Pewpew is colored sky-blue.

Awe, he's adorable...congrats! And what a wonderful thing for you to do, giving this old guy a loving, attentive home! He'll be so much happier now...

I have an indoor-aviary with 5 remaining retired breeder-Budgies, and they are living out their twilight years in luxury, lol...Just as a note, I have definitely found that since I stopped breeding and they have been getting much more attention from me over the past few years, they have all become very tame. When they were paired-up and breeding I couldn't handle them at all, but now they all step-up, and a couple of them even enjoy coming out with me for a while. So it's very likely that Eight will do the same after he settles-in and starts getting used to human attention...

Thank you for taking this senior beauty in, he is so lucky you found him.
It makes me so happy to know he will live out the rest of his days, loved and cherished.

You have done a great job taking in an old budgie. Wish I could do the same but current scenario does not allow me.

Here are some tips on caring for an ageing budgie.

Care Of The Ageing Budgie

Not sure about the milk part but rest are all useful I presume.

Cardinal said:

You have done a great job taking in an old budgie. Wish I could do the same but current scenario does not allow me.

Here are some tips on caring for an ageing budgie.

Care Of The Ageing Budgie

Not sure about the milk part but rest are all useful I presume.

Click to expand...

I just took a look at this page on "Caring for an Aging Budgie", and although there is some information that is useful, there is a lot that isn't accurate and may actually be counterproductive...

They start off by saying that "If your Budgie is already 5 or 6 years old, then this is a testimony of your care"...Well that's a horrible statement to make, as Budgies in captivity can life well into their 20's! My first Budgie that I got when I was 6 years old lived to be 18, and died just before his 19th birthday! He went to college with me! So please don't read this and think that the "average" life-span of an American/Australian Budgie is under 10 years of age, as that is just not true (though it does seem to be what most inexperienced people think when they go and buy their kids a pet Budgie, as I've heard/read many people state that a Budgie's average lifespan is between 4-5 years old, when in-fact the average, if well-cared for and fed a healthy, varied diet is actually in their early to mid teens)...

Also, as Cardinal mentioned, please do not give your birds milk, as dairy/lactose is not good for them, they do not digest it well...And that entire section about feeding an elderly Budgie a ton of protein "because he might need a boost" isn't great advice...I'd actually be concerned about making a concentrated effort to feed any elderly bird a lot of protein every day, as it may actually put way too much strain on their kidneys...

I don't know who wrote this, but they also make a statement that "I find that Budgies stop feeling gorgeously young at 7 years old and molting becomes a huge "problem, and this is why upping the protein is important...If you do so, they can possibly live to the ripe old age of, say, 9-11 years old!".....

This is not good at all...I have owned American/Australian and English Budgies my entire life, literally since I was 6, and grew-up in a household where my mom and grandmother had been breeding and owning Budgies for decades, then I bred them from the age of 16 until just a few years ago when I turned 35 or so...And I have never once seen a Budgie who started having "trouble molting at age 7", nor would I ever consider 9 years old a "ripe old age" for a Budgie...the fact that they suggest feeding an "elderly Budgie (7 years old, lol) regular cow's milk twice a day for extra protein because otherwise they will not be able to molt" honestly scares me a bit...

Well, I just realized that this was written in the year 2000, I actually figured it was much older than that since they state at the bottom that the average age to expect your Budgie to live to is 8 years old...On second-thought, I would not go by anything on this page, as it is not good advice at all, and is inaccurate...I take my Budgies seriously, lol...

****Please do not feed any bird regular cow's milk, it's not necessary, and please don't think that 7 year's old is elderly for a Budgie...Basically all you need to do is what you already know to do with any bird...Make sure he gets a healthy, varied diet that consists of a fortified pellet staple (he is probably used to only eating seeds, but the nice thing about Budgie food is that several brands make bagged, Budgie-size pellet/seed mixes which contain no sunflower seeds or any other very fatty seeds! So you may want to look-into a Budgie staple-food that is a pellet/seed mix to try to convert him over to, as the pellets will provide him with all of the vitamins and minerals he needs daily...I feed an bagged Budgie pellet/seed mix made by Ecotrition, and they love it, the pellets are very small and easy for them to eat, no sunflower seeds, and it also contains added Probiotics, which is actually a supplement you may want to add to his food if what you are feeding him doesn't already include them. Qwiko makes a great Avian Probiotic powder supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food once a day. This will aid in his digestion, as that is something that can slow-down and cause them issues as they get older...And of course you want to introduce lots of daily fresh greens and veggies, and a little bit of fruit (no citrus fruit due to Iron-Storage-Disease)...

But you do not need nor do you want to suddenly "Up his daily protein-intake", as again, this will only serve to put extra strain on his kidneys. There are much healthier, much more efficient ways to aid them in molting, if and when that issue ever arises, but i've not experienced this ever with my Budgies, even when they are up into their teenage-years...

There's no big secret here, nothing special that you have to do to keep him healthy and happy...A healthy, varied diet that is low in fatty seeds, and that includes lots of fresh greens and veggies. Provide him a place to bath at least once a week, as Budgies usually love to bath, and this will aid in their feather care and health. Lots and lots of different toys. Ample out-of-cage-time. Lots of love and attention. This equals a happy, healthy Budgie that will live to a "Ripe, Old-Age" into his mid to late teens!

Hey, here's to you 8 , may you show them all up and live another 15 !

I appreciate all the kind remarks and encouragement, everyone. Eight is a special little guy. I hope he has a full and comfortable life with me and the flock.

@Ellen, the tips are invaluable, thank you!! I currently feed Zupreem fortified pellet/seed mix + Harrison's HP fine but will happily transition to Ecotrition immediately. I've used it before but I think it was a fortified all seed mix (which I mixed with Zupreme pellets). I will look for their pellet / seed mix. Is this what you've fed your first budgie most of his life, as well as your retired breeders? I would love to see Eight and Pewpew live a ripe, old age like yours. It's very encouraging.

PS. I sometimes give probiotic powder supplements however I add it to their water (following package instructions) instead of their dry food. I avoided adding it to dry food because I assumed they would not be able to ingest most of it once they hull the seeds. I'll start adding to dry though. Probably better for promoting their water quality anyway

EllenD said:

o a "Ripe, Old-Age" into his mid to late teens!

Click to expand...

wut?
Don't they usually reach 20 years easily?


Ours always did.
(On just seed and occasional fruit/ greens - no internet... )

He is a pretty bird. Not to many people would take in an older budgie, but I'm glad there are some people that would give time and space to one.
It's not easy to tell how old a bird is by just looking at them but you can definitely tell he's not a young one from his eyes.
How was introducing them to each other? I always worry when new birds meet each other.

I see you have one of those Woven Wonders caterpillar toys. My budgies absolutely adore those. I think I may have to get a replacement for theirs soon.

When I saw that name, I just KNEW there was a story behind it.

You're a lucky little budgie, Eight!

And you're a good heart, Boomer!

Amedeo and Galeria, thank you so much for the kind words!

I was planning to post more beauty shots of little Eight but this afternoon I noticed something unusual with his nares when I got home. There's a spec of pinkish red skin right under the nares where it meets the upper beak. It does not look wet but seems the color of his skin. He is active, vocal, eating, etc. Pics below. Reasons how he got it that I could think of:

1) Yesterday he got out of the cage when I was taking Pew for a beak trim. He thrashed about for a bit. Maybe he hit his nares on something?

2) He scraped it too hard on the rough perch cover (I don't cover the entire perch, just a section of it).

3) PBFD? This is far fetched but I always think of the worst things.

He got a clear from Avet a while back (culture test). Avet did not think blood test was necessary. Will PBFD show in these test results? There's always been a bit of skin showing on top of the nares where it meets the forehead, especially when my budgies molts (and he molts a lot it seems). What do you guys think happened to little Eight? Has anyone seen this before?

No, they do not test for PBFD in a routine blood-panel, that is a specific test...though this doesn't present like PBFD at all..However, I believe that all birds that you bring into your home should be tested separately for PBFD, especially if you have multiple birds, but mostly so that you can catch it as early as possible, and start the few supplements and medications, as well as routines/practices that you can do, not to cure the PBFD, but to try to control it and make your bird as comfortable as possible...Though again, this isn't PBFD, or at least it's highly unlikely..

Here's my main question about this stuff on his face/cere, as I can't tell from the photos...Does the red/brown portion look to be ON TOP OF HIS CERE, or does it simply look like scrapes? This is extremely important, as if the red/brown areas are at all elevated or look to be on top of the cere, then you need to think "Mites" immediately, as they are extremely common in Budgies, such as Scaly-Face Mites...Scaly-Face Mites are very, very common in Budgies, and they are extremely contagious. And since you've not had Eight for very long, this has to be a big concern.

If you at all think that the red/brown area is at all elevated or looks to be something that is on-top of the cere, or it doesn't appear to bloody/scraped, but simply just discolored (even if it's not elevated at this point), I highly suggest that you first separate Eight from your other birds immediately, meaning in a totally different room, and then call your CAV immediately to get him in for a culture, which he can do right there in his office under a microscope. If it is mites, which it really does look like it could be the start of (again, I can't see it well or see any texture from the photos), probably Scaly-Face Mites, then it's extremely important that you start the correct, prescription treatment ASAP (do not attempt to buy an over-the-counter mite treatment, or one of those things you stick to their cage, etc., as Scaly-Face must be treated properly with prescription meds to be eliminated)...While Scaly-Face Mites in Budgies is a serious condition due to it's ability to cause permanent disfigurement and/or deformities in their beaks, ceres, and their actual face, that only happens if it is let go and not treated within a short amount of time...When treated quickly by a CAV with the correct prescription meds, Scaly-Face Mites are totally 100% curable with no lasting issues, and no real side-effects from the meds. But it must be treated soon after developing, as it is a very progressive mite that multiplies extremely fast...

It may also be another type of mite, there are many, but Scaly-Face is the most common mite infestation/disease in Budgies, and it presents just like Eight is presenting, with red/brown areas on their ceres, on and around their beaks, and eventually even their eyes, the rest of their faces, and their entire head/neck if let go for a long time...But again, I can't see it very well in the photo...If it's obviously a scraped area, then that's different...What worries me and is indicative of mites is the pattern that it's in, it's not just in one area/direction, it's on the top edge over both nares/nostrils, and then also down the creased-edge separating both sides of his cere...That doesn't strike me as being a scrape or an injury, and the real tip-off that this is a mite-infection is that it's starting out inside of creases and along edges...that's pretty much always how mites start to form, in the creases and along edges, and then they spread-out over the flat areas of the cere...and Scaly-Face usually does start on the cere and around the edges of the beak...

Actually, I'd definitely be calling my CAV and taking him in ASAP, after looking once more at that last photo you posted, just based on the placement of the areas, it presents exactly like the start of a mite infestation...And I'd also definitely separate him to a different room from your other bird immediately, and also I'd disinfect not only Eight's cage, toys, dishes, etc. and the stand/furniture it's sitting on (extremely hot water and bleach in this case, then rinse well until the bleach smell is gone), but I'd also do the same for your other bird's cage, toys, dishes, etc., as well as any play-stands they have, etc.

Don't freak-out here or worry terribly, as mite infestations, including Scaly-Face Mites, are totally treatable/curable. And you're a great parront, so you're not going to let it go for weeks or longer...I'll give you a head's-up, if you Google "Scaly Face Mites in Budgies" and you look at the images, you're going to freak-out, but you must keep in-mind that those are the worst-cases ever in the history of mites, lol. And for it to get that bad, those birds were neglected medical care for weeks to months and months. Both myself and my mom have dealt with several different mite-infected Budgies throughout the decades of owning many breeders and pet Budgies, and it does typically happen in the weeks to the first month or two after you bring a new Budgie home. The problem is that even though you took him to your CAV for a wellness-exam, your CAV would never had seen this, as Scaly-Face Mites, as well as several other species that effect Budgies, are microscopic. They aren't like the little bright-red/pink mites you often see, or even feather-mites, which are also visible. It takes hundreds of them grouping together to make them visible. So there was no way to know that he had them until they multiplied enough to start being visible...

If your CAV does diagnose a mite infestation, he will most-likely want to also treat your other bird, since they have been together, because if Eight came to you with the mites, which he most-likely did, then you can see how long it took for them to multiply and form a "crust", as it's called...So your other bird likely also has them in the beginning stages as well...Hopefully I'm totally wrong and it's something else...but I really don't think so, based on my experience. But what matters is that even if it is mites, it's totally curable...

Ellen, thank you for the detailed and informative response. I really appreciate it.

I remember seeing pictures of Scaly-Face Mites last year. Scary stuff. It did not come to mind when I was looking at Eight because the red patch of skin above his cere seemed more like slight baldness from the heavy molt he is going through on his head. I assumed he was just loosing fathers on account of that. It does not seem elevated on top of the cere, just seemed like the skin between the cere and the forehead feathers. But who knows.

I was more concerned for the tiny patch of red skin that appeared on the bottom part of the cere right where it meets the upper beak. I never noticed it until yesterday. This does not look elevated or encrusted. It seems almost like it's a bare part of the cere so that I can see a patch of skin underneath? Like it's set in and deeper than the center section of the cere.

I'm at work now but I will try to take better pictures when I get home. He's skittish so it's hard without needing to zoom in the camera. In the meantime, I've left a voicemail with my CAV (they are closed on Wednesdays). Ugh, I'm getting anxious. I'll visit them on my lunch and try to take a clear photo.

I took better pictures (or as best as I could) from many angles. He looks like he's got black specs on the white feathers but that's not dirt. I think it's from his molt or some feathers just has dark specs. What do you think of the cere? Will send this to my avian vet tomorrow as soon as they return my call.

Sorry, I had to work yesterday so I just now logged back on...Looks very much like some kind of mite infection...The part above his cere may be some balding from the mites, but the rest of the coloring on his cere itself looks just like mites from the photo...

I was in a hurry earlier, so I just wanted to add a little explanation as to why I still think it's mites...First of all, mites do cause "balding" around the cere and beak, as they typically start accumulating around the edges of the cere and beak, where the feathers start. So if he is actually "balding" in the areas surrounding his cere, like the red area above his cere (I can't really see that it's balding, but you can), then that is indicative of being caused by mites, even if mites aren't visible and balding around the cere/beak is the only outward sign of an issue, mites are typically one of the first things the CAV will rule-out or confirm.

Secondly, forgetting the balding area above his cere, he's got that red/brown colored substance around both of his nostrils, around the top edge of his cere, and down the crease that separates his cere into two-sides. So you have to figure out what that red/brown substance is, as it popped-up very acutely, suddenly, and when you combine that with the balding of his feathers above the top edge of his cere, this is all indicative of a mite infestation. I know you were just chalking-this up to his feathers simply "balding", but there has to be a cause of acute, sudden feather balding, that's issue #1, as that doesn't just happen overnight for no reason...and issue #2 is that he's got a classic red/brown discoloration around and on both his cere and the top of his beak, so, what is it? Again, classic outward signs of a mite infestation...

****I just went back and compared the close-up photo to the first photos you took earlier in the day, and if you do the same, you'll see that the second photos you took appear to show even more of the red/brown discoloration down in the middle of his cere...Once mites multiply enough that they are visible (talking about the microscopic varieties), that's the point where you're going to be able to see them spreading in short periods of time. So that's another sign that he's got some buggies going on...

Again, this isn't anything that is life-threatening to him or your other birds as long as you get him in to your CAV ASAP, get him diagnosed, and start treatment. He'll be good as new in a couple of weeks once he starts the proper prescription medication, and once you disinfect his cage, toys, dishes, and the area that his cage is sitting in/on. That's a must, as you don't want him to reinfect himself.

I'm honestly not sure what else this would be other than some kind of mites. Any other suggestions are welcome, but either way, please get him to his CAV ASAP to either confirm or rule-out mites, and to get a correct diagnosis, whatever it may be...

***Just to make sure, I'm assuming that you have already tried to wipe-off/clean off the areas, correct? LOL, if this is some kind of fruit residue or juice, I'm going to laugh my butt off...I hope it's that easy...

Hi, Ellen! Thank you for all the helpful and detailed responses to the PM I sent and your updates to this thread.

I see what you mean about the spot in the center of his cere looking slightly larger in the second set of pictures. They were taken about 16 hours apart. This morning (day 3), the spot looks smaller and less red, but that could be due to the faint morning light. If not scrape, I wonder if it was bruising from him thrashing about the other day? I was also looking for red specs on the perches which Wikipedia seems to indicate is a symptom of mites, but so far have found none. I don't know if this is relevant in your experience, maybe it's dependent on the type of mite. I haven't tried to wipe his cere to see if the discoloration would come off. Will note for the future.

I cleared all my engagements at work tomorrow and will be taking Eight and Pewpew to see our CAV first thing in the morning. I'm really, really, really hoping it's not scaley face mites but I'm preparing for the worst. I'm glad this is not life threatening but I'm so anxious and honestly, a little upset that CAV overlooked this. Eight's top cere looked the same when I took him to the CAV a month ago, minus the red middle spot of course, which just showed up 3 days ago. I assume they get mites from other infected birds. Pew's never had them in the 3+ years I've kept him. As for Eight, I wonder why he is just manifesting symptoms now? Maybe it was from the stress of adjusting to his new home or loss of his mate?

I'm rambling again. Anyhow, I will update the thread tomorrow after we see our CAV. I appreciate all the help and time, EllenD.

Thank you, Ellen!
And thank you, Boomster, for being so open-minded and active and intrepid. Eight struck it SOOOO LUCKY when he found you... you found him...
I love this story.

I wouldn't blame the CAV, unless you specifically asked him why the bird was balding above his cere. As far as not seeing the mites or them not being visible, yes, the get them from other birds/living creatures, and as I said, depending on the type of mite, they are microscopic and take time to accumulate in quantities that will make them visible. This is why i said that he presents with classic symptoms of mites or the timeline for them, as you just brought him home a few weeks ago from another home, at which time he had a balding above his cere only, and now they are growing along the edges of the cere and beak and are visible...That's how they multiply and spread...

You'd never see mites like this on a perch or a cage, first of all they are microscopic, second they are on the bird in high quantities, not on non-living stuff...

You have to understand that most mites that effect birds, reptiles, etc. are not at all like the bright red/pink mites you can see outside on the sidewalk, on rocks, etc. Totally different... (except for feather mites, though even they are tough to see under light sometimes)...Think a person with scabies, you can't see them at first at all, just feel them...

It could be bruising from something, like I said, I can't see it well enough to tell, if I was there I could tell you immediately if it was a mite infection, but it certainly does present that way...Keep in mind though, if it is bruising on his cere, that has nothing to do with the balding above his cere, nor the discoloration along all of the different edges of his cere...Just have to wait and see what the vet says...Make sure you let him know that he came to your house with only the balding just above the cere, and this discoloration on the cere/beak has popped-up a couple of weeks later...That way he'll know that he could have come from his prior home with the mites...

Hello! Sorry I'm late but as promised, here's an update on little Eight. I took both Eight and Pewpew to our CAV last Friday. Vet agreed that at first glance, the red spot on Eight's cere appears similar to scaly-face mites (SFM) and that it was a very reasonable guess. After taking him to the backroom, he cleared him and said it's not SFM. He's handled many cases of SFM before and said SFM is very treatable with a singe injection. I asked if Eight and Pew could get that injection anyway just in case it is SFM but he advised against it. He doesn't want to administer meds if not needed. He's always had this conservative approach.

Vet believes it is bruising and asked me if Eight may have hurt himself recently. This coincides with the thrashing Eight did a day before the spot first appeared. I purposely did not mention the incident to the vet beforehand so as not to influence his diagnosis. He also mentioned the whiteish bit of skin between Eight's cere and beak are normal in some budgies. He said not to worry because Eight also is past an age where SFM will likely develop. He said most budgies actually have been exposed to SFM, but it depends on an individual budgie's immune system whether the symptoms will manifest. Budgies normally get it from their parents and signs would often show between 3 months to a year. I'm sure there are exceptions to the case though. Supposedly it is also not very highly contagious, where in an aviary, some budgies would have it and others sharing the same space wouldn't - again going back to immune system I guess.

All that said, I will keep on observing Eight regardless. If there are any signs of SFM, I will reach out to our vet ASAP, then we can do that treatment he mentioned. So far, the red spot appears to be diminishing. Vet seems to have scraped it a little because it looked worse the first few days. I'm still glad I took both of my cosmic featherpuffs to see him. It's definitely not a wasted trip especially because I learned a lot about SFM and other things. I want to thank EllenD for all the great support and attention. I really appreciate it! Hopefully this thread is helpful to someone else in the future.

You are totally my hero. And thank you, Ellen, too.
I absolutely love this story.
Go, Team Eight!