Opinions on Pearl’s cere: it’s been dark brown for quite a long time

reeb · Sep 18, 2018

Hi everyone,

So Pearl, my female budgie, has had a dark brown crusty cere for quite a few months (maybe 3 or 4). In my experience, “breeding mood” doesn’t usually last so long, and I would have expected her cere to return to pale brown/white-ish sooner. She has not displayed any behaviours typical of a broody female either. She is just over a year old. All three birds are going for a general vet check up this Thursday, so I will be asking our vet too.

I am mostly concerned that it could be mites or something, but it really doesn’t look abnormal or anything to me, but maybe hypotrophy of the cere? Maybe she has a hormonal imbalance of sorts? It does not cover her nostrils or anything. I have attached a few pictures.

Any thoughts?

LaManuka · Sep 18, 2018

I don’t know that you have too much to be worried about here. Cere colour can vary but you’re going to the doctors soon so they’ll let you know soon enough, I think it’ll be okay though

But she’s certainly a big beautiful girl!

EllenD · Sep 18, 2018

She's a very gorgeous English Budgie!!! And her cere looks completely normal, no hypertrophy at all, as that is something that is very recognizable. It doesn't look at all like any species of mites to me either; the color is not that of any mite infestation that I've ever seen (usually very red or rust colored), and only her cere is involved and that's it, there's nothing on her beak or in/on the borders/crevices around her beak, or anywhere on her face/forehead/skin, she's not missing any feathers, etc.

Over the years of breeding Budgies (both American and English) I have had a lot of female breeders who would seemingly stay in breeding-season for months and months, some would even be in breeding-season all year round with the exception of may be a month or two. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've had some female breeders who would only go (visually) into breeding-season right before mating/breeding, and then would come out of it right after I would pull the last baby in the clutch and remove the nest-box. So it's just an individual-bird thing, some stay in longer than others, and some are also effected more by environment than others. I don't know how you house your Budgies, I seem to remember that you "show" your birds, so if she is kept with any males either in the same cage or even in a cage next to her, that can also effect some females to stay in breeding-season longer.

In addition, she's just a year old, so she most-likely hasn't had many breeding-seasons yet, or rather many hormonal episodes, and it's not at all uncommon for some females during "puberty" or in their first few breeding-seasons to be much more hormonal than they are as older adults.

Either way, her cere looks completely normal and healthy to me, and at 3-4 months I wouldn't at all worry about it. It's good you're taking her to your CAV this week, so you can have him examine her and if he thinks there is a chance that it's not simply breeding-season but possibly mites, he can easily take a quick scraping/swab and look at it under the microscope to verify. However, I am almost certain that it's not mites...has she been scratching/digging at her with her feet/toenails at all? Rubbing her face/cere on the cage bars, perches, food dishes, etc.? If not, then combined with how it looks visually, and the fact that you haven't mentioned that any other birds are showing any signs of mites, then she's most-likely fine and this is completely normal hormonal behavior. Mites are extremely contagious and spread very quickly, so there's very little chance that she would be the only bird effected, nor that the mites would be limited to only her cere...So it's very likely not any type of parasite.

I think she's perfectly fine and just in a long breeding-season, which again is not at all abnormal, especially at her age.

Laurasea · Sep 18, 2018

Man those English budgies are huge!!!! @@. She is a gorgeous girl!!

Sunnyclover · Sep 18, 2018

Yeah they're as big as my little GCC lol.

Laurasea · Sep 18, 2018

Sunnyclover said:
Yeah they're as big as my little GCC lol.

I was thinking the same thing SunnyClover!!

EllenD · Sep 18, 2018

Sunnyclover said:
Yeah they're as big as my little GCC lol.

It's not uncommon for some English Budgies to actually be larger than a Green Cheek! I've seen males that were almost the size of a Sun Conure! And they're so gorgeous, very proud looking!

reeb · Sep 18, 2018

Thanks so much to everyone for all the responses! It’s definitely reassuring, and seeing my vet will help to set my mind at ease too I think.

Haha, my two hand reared babies are still quite little for English Budgies, but they are still growing. With my other English budgies, it took about 2 years for them to reach full size!

Here is Opal, Pearl’s companion (note: not mate lol, they show 0 interest in each other - in fact, he chases Berry the 'tiel around and is absolutely obsessed with her, so maybe he's confused!!)

Opal is currently 48g, Pearl is 56g, and Berry, my ‘tiel, is quite a bit larger at 102g. I expect the budgies to grow quite a bit more. They are unrelated, and I was particularly impressed by how majestic Opal’s dad was, so I at least expect him to get a lot bigger. :18:

Kiwi and Mango, my two largest English Budgies in the aviary, are waaaay bigger than these two haha. They really only stopped growing at like 2 ish years. They are now nearly 4. Here’s a pic of Kiwi, you can see he’s a lot larger than Opal.

I decided to get hand reared English budgies instead of wild-type because I knew that I was considering a cockatiel in the future (now Berry), and I was worried about size differences. I realise now that I didn’t need to, since Berry is the most gentle ‘tiel in the world, and would never harm them :18:all three even share a cage!

Here’s a bonus pic of Berry!

LaManuka · Sep 18, 2018

Beautiful birds and so well mannered. Thanx for sharing

GaleriaGila · Sep 18, 2018

I was going to be indelicate and ask how much she weighed! I was madly curious.
Wow, she's a fabulous Amazon (like the Wonder Woman type, I mean!).

reeb · Sep 18, 2018

EllenD said:
She's a very gorgeous English Budgie!!! And her cere looks completely normal, no hypertrophy at all, as that is something that is very recognizable. It doesn't look at all like any species of mites to me either; the color is not that of any mite infestation that I've ever seen (usually very red or rust colored), and only her cere is involved and that's it, there's nothing on her beak or in/on the borders/crevices around her beak, or anywhere on her face/forehead/skin, she's not missing any feathers, etc.

Over the years of breeding Budgies (both American and English) I have had a lot of female breeders who would seemingly stay in breeding-season for months and months, some would even be in breeding-season all year round with the exception of may be a month or two. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've had some female breeders who would only go (visually) into breeding-season right before mating/breeding, and then would come out of it right after I would pull the last baby in the clutch and remove the nest-box. So it's just an individual-bird thing, some stay in longer than others, and some are also effected more by environment than others. I don't know how you house your Budgies, I seem to remember that you "show" your birds, so if she is kept with any males either in the same cage or even in a cage next to her, that can also effect some females to stay in breeding-season longer.

In addition, she's just a year old, so she most-likely hasn't had many breeding-seasons yet, or rather many hormonal episodes, and it's not at all uncommon for some females during "puberty" or in their first few breeding-seasons to be much more hormonal than they are as older adults.

Either way, her cere looks completely normal and healthy to me, and at 3-4 months I wouldn't at all worry about it. It's good you're taking her to your CAV this week, so you can have him examine her and if he thinks there is a chance that it's not simply breeding-season but possibly mites, he can easily take a quick scraping/swab and look at it under the microscope to verify. However, I am almost certain that it's not mites...has she been scratching/digging at her with her feet/toenails at all? Rubbing her face/cere on the cage bars, perches, food dishes, etc.? If not, then combined with how it looks visually, and the fact that you haven't mentioned that any other birds are showing any signs of mites, then she's most-likely fine and this is completely normal hormonal behavior. Mites are extremely contagious and spread very quickly, so there's very little chance that she would be the only bird effected, nor that the mites would be limited to only her cere...So it's very likely not any type of parasite.

I think she's perfectly fine and just in a long breeding-season, which again is not at all abnormal, especially at her age.

To respond to this separately, I haven’t noticed any rubbing at all! The other 2 have also been behaving totally normally, so hopefully the vet can confirm that it isn’t mites!

Laurasea · Sep 18, 2018

That male is scrumptious!!!! And your tiel looks like a model, gorgeous birds, thank you for pics!!

reeb · Sep 19, 2018

EllenD said:
I seem to remember that you "show" your birds, so if she is kept with any males either in the same cage or even in a cage next to her, that can also effect some females to stay in breeding-season longer.

Oh, also wanted to reply to this. I don't show my birds, they are just my precious pets and I don't really believe in putting them through that stress!

Vilatus · Sep 19, 2018

My budgie has this as well, but not to the same extent, and my avian vet did say it was hypo! My vet is considered "the best in the midwest", so I'd say if mine wasn't concerned you probably don't need to be either. I'd still check with your vet whenever you go next though.

For me she did say my budgie is deficient in some vitamins due to her diet. My budgie also has had this for basically over a year. I'll include a picture below. Your girl is beautiful by the way!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

EllenD · Sep 19, 2018

reeb said:
EllenD said:

I seem to remember that you "show" your birds, so if she is kept with any males either in the same cage or even in a cage next to her, that can also effect some females to stay in breeding-season longer.

Click to expand...

Oh, also wanted to reply to this. I don't show my birds, they are just my precious pets and I don't really believe in putting them through that stress!

Oh, I apologize, I don't know why but I thought that I remembered you talking about showing them...I'm glad you don't, I've seen some horrific and cruel practices in that world...

reeb · Sep 19, 2018

EllenD said:
reeb said:

EllenD said:

I seem to remember that you "show" your birds, so if she is kept with any males either in the same cage or even in a cage next to her, that can also effect some females to stay in breeding-season longer.

Click to expand...

Oh, also wanted to reply to this. I don't show my birds, they are just my precious pets and I don't really believe in putting them through that stress!

Click to expand...

Oh, I apologize, I don't know why but I thought that I remembered you talking about showing them...I'm glad you don't, I've seen some horrific and cruel practices in that world...

No worries! Yeah, totally agree! Some of the stuff I've read about it actually scares me, I don't know why people put these fragile little creatures through such strain. I'm just glad to give the English budgies good lives away from the showing business!

Opinions on Pearl’s cere: it’s been dark brown for quite a long time

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After two months i tamed my budgie!

Any celeibate couples out there?

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