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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:20 AM
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Re: Egg bound?

If you seriously want to get into breeding Cockatiels especially and other small birds?

First step you need to get your birds to a vet ASAP!! Others already stated this already, or very least get the sick Cockatiel you have to a vet as you will have a base line for what to expect from rest of the flock and then get the others in flock in to vet a couple at a time, if funds are the issue. You do need to get that one Cockatiel to the vet ASAP!! This is required as last thing you want to do is spread a nasty avian virus to other people flock, if the babies get re-homed. If your Cockatiel has a virus, then chances are high it spread to rest of flock. Hoping if you plan on breeding them you have a way to re-home already planned out? As far as the budgie goes? I would take the eggs out and boil them as she lay them and put them back in, your not ready yet, you lacking material needed, plus get your bird to a vet first and tested.

Last edited by ParrotGenie; 02-11-2019 at 10:45 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2019, 11:21 AM
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Re: Egg bound?

Quote: Originally Posted by Laurasea View Post
" . I would really like to have them raise a clutch. I'm wanting the practice too, as I really want my tiels to breed. I'm glad she wasn't bound. I'll get some supplies from Petco "

I'm kinda concerned. You had your baby conure die of an avain virus. These and your other birds haven't seen a vet.. and you mentioned wanting to breed your cockatiels. Yet there are concerns with your female cockatiel health.
I'm just very concerned, because if you breed and rehome the babies you could be spreading the virus to other homes, and homes that might have other birds.... This breeding of the budgies for practice just doesn't seem like a good idea right now..... Sorry.
Yeah that's a good point. I guess what I want depends on how the birds tests go in the near future. The budgies are separate from the bigger birds I think they are ok. I won't re-home.any till I know they aren't sick. I gotta run I'll read and answer the rest later!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:52 PM
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Re: Egg bound?

I'm glad that Laura and others mentioned their concern, because I have the same concerns as well, as I've already stated in your other post regarding Chessie...There is no way you want to even attempt breeding her, you don't even know what's going on with her health, and unfortunately there definitely is something wrong with her, whether it be something as simple as a bad inner/middle ear infection or as serious as PDD or PBFD, something is very wrong and there is no way you could EVER put her in a breeding/egg-laying situation until you get a definitive answer as to what is going on with her. If it's some kind of infection, Air Sac issue, injury, etc., then you can think about breeding her AFTER she finishes treatment for it, but not before...And if she does end-up testing positive for something like PDD or any other Viral Disease, then breeding her is not an option at all, as it would surely kill her and spread the Disease to her mate, the chicks, etc. I hate to keep harping on getting Chessie to the University for proper diagnostic testing, but the longer you wait, the worse whatever it is gets, and the less of a chance for recovery he has. Avoiding the problem will not make it go away unfortunately. And if you see her start exhibiting any other signs/symptoms of illness in addition to her inability to fly getting worse and worse, such as loss ofr appetite/anorexia, lethargy/sleeping more than normal, etc., then it's definitely go-time, as at that point it may in-fact be too late to do much to help her, especially if she becomes Septic from something simple like an inner/middle ear infection, which is very treatable in it's beginning stages...She could actually lose her hearing as a result of that as well, another thing to think about...

***As far as breeding your Budgies goes, most of the serious Avian Viral Diseases are unfortunately airborne, and in breeding-situations it's not uncommon for an entire aviary to test positive for PDD, ABV, PBFD, etc. once one bird becomes actively sick with it, regardless of them having any direct contact with each other, or even being in the same room with each other...What you have to understand about most Avian Viral Diseases Yumgrinder is that birds actually "shed" these viruses in their dander, feathers, etc. So not only is it all over your home and in the air, but it's on YOU and you end-up becoming basically the carrier for them to spread from bird to bird without even being aware of it. So it is a big deal and something that you must address and get an answer about ASAP, especially since Cheddar was actively sick with PDD before she died, and you were handling her often in her last weeks and days...

***Once you make a decision about what you want to do as far as raising the Budgie chicks, we can help you with what you need to go buy and have on-hand prior to any of them hatching...Even if you don't plan on hand-raising/hand-feeding them yourself from 2-3 weeks old forward, you must be ready at any time to have to take-over for the parent Budgies, especially since they are first-time parents. They can reject the chicks at any time, and when that happens you must be ready with a Brooder to house the chicks that has a temperature adjustable between 80-95 degrees F to be able to house them from the time before they have all of their down, to the time they have all of their down, to the time they have their mature, outer feathers. Without keeping the chicks at the proper ambient temperature at all times they will not be able to properly digest their formula and will develop Yeast infections and Crop-Stasis...You don't have to go out and buy an actual Brooder, you can make a homemade one from a small cardboard box, an ambient thermometer, and an electric heating pad that has adjustable temperatures, with a towel over the back-half of the box (which is the half of the box that will sit on the heating pad and be covered with the towel, with the front-half of the box not on the heating pad and not covered with the towel; then you put the ambient thermometer in the back of the box, and that the half of the box that must be at the correct ambient temperature based on the chick's feather-growth...So you have a cool front-half of the box and a warm back-half of the box, so the older chicks who have more feather-growth than the younger chicks can go to the cooler part of the box as they want to, while the younger chicks with less feather growth and who aren't as mobile will stay in the back-half that is at the correct ambient temperature)...That type of homemade Brooder works extremely well as long as you keep a close-eye on the ambient temp in the back-half of the box with a good digital thermometer, like one of the Accurite Thermometers you can just sit or hang in the back of the box. You'll also need a digital candy/cooking thermometer with a metal probe that you can keep in the hand-feeding formula at all times while you're feeding them, which you can buy at Walmart in the Kitchen gadget section for around $15 or so...You'll also need to have a container of hand-feeding formula on-hand at all times, and you can purchase a bag or canister of Kaytee hand-feeding formula at any Petco or PetSmart....You'll also need either an oral-syringe or a few disposable Leur-Slip syringes to feed them with, and actually an eye-dropper works best for when they are younger than 3-4 weeks, after which the syringes work well. Budgies have small beaks anyway, and I always pulled my chicks to hand-raise/hand-feed them at 2 weeks old, and would use the eyedropper to feed them until they were between 3-4 weeks old, then I would switch to the syringe. Also good to have a bottle of unflavored Pedialyte or the generic brand of it, as they do become dehydrated quickly, especially if you have to take-over for mom and dad and they haven't been feeding them as often as they should have been...You have to be prepared to take over at any time, and Budgies don't fully Abundance-Wean until they are between 8-10 weeks old, and don't start the Abundance-Weaning process until they are between 5-6 weeks old, so you've got a good 5-6 weeks of only hand-feeding them formula and nothing else before you start introducing solid foods to them. So you have to be ready to go at any time...And that can absolutely mean feeding them every 2-3 hours overnight for the first 3-4 weeks, which means setting an alarm and waking up every 2-3 hours to feed them...
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2019, 09:11 PM
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Re: Egg bound?

Ok guys, I get it. I didn't mean I want them to breed right now. I'm talking a couple years down the road. I meant eventually. Yes I'm getting them all tested Chessie sees the University in Colorado Thursday. I made the appointment last week.

Materials needed? I have everything. I have several empty cages and plenty of room for the babies. I'm not sure what you mean by needing more materials so I should boil the eggs. I'm not boiling them.

As for intervening with the chicks, I do not plan on it unless I have to, I want the parents to raise them entirely. Is there a problem with letting them do what nature intended? Ill take out the nesting box after this clutch, and discourage them till I've figured out the infection situation with my bigger birds.

Again, I'll emphasize I meant I want my tiels to breed EVENUTUALLY and obviously if they are healthy enough. It's a dream. Jazz is only like 2 years old he's not even ready. I won't risk Chessies life over babies. I must be clear, jazz and Chessie pretty much barely pay attention to each other, so I'm not expecting them to pair up and make babies, I would only encourage it down the road. I promise, by the time I decide to let any more eggs, all my birds will be verified clean from infection and none of the birds will leave my care till verified. This clutch from the budgies is happening, but I'm not concerned as they are separate from the bigger birds. The budgies aren't hand tame I don't let them out except for occasional health checks. But I will get them budgies tested too. Money is not a problem they will get tested. Thanks for encouraging the testing, I agree it's needed.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:02 AM
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Re: Egg bound?

What we mean by "supplies and equipment" Yumgrinder is that even if you are planning on letting the babies be raised and fed by the parents, you still must ALWAYS be prepared to have to take-over both housing them and feeding them at any moment and any age, from the moment they hatch up through the abundance-weaning process...It's not at all uncommon for parent birds, especially first-time parent-birds like yours, to refuse to feed or lay on the chicks to keep them warm, refuse to feed them at all, actually throw them out of the nest-box, or most-commonly start plucking/mutilating and/or killing the chicks. This can happen at any time with any breeding-pair of birds, and with Budgies it's extremely common...So what this means is the YOU must be completely ready to be able to remove them from the nest-box at any time, be able to house them at the correct temperature immediately (or they'll die quickly if they are younger than 5-6 weeks old and you don't have a homemade Brooder set-up at the correct temperature and ready to go), and be able to feed them proper hand-feeding formula at the proper temperature range (between 104 and 110 degrees F at all times, not one degree colder or hotter) at any moment...

So you have cages and nest-boxes, yes, but do you have a homemade or real Brooder set-up and ready to go that keeps the ambient temperature within the correct ranges depending on the age of the chicks, as I described how to make in my above post? Do you have a canister/bag of commercial hand-feeding formula (Kaytee Exact, Roudybush, etc.), a digital candy/cooking thermometer with a metal probe, unflavored Pedialyte, eye-dropper and oral or disposable Leur-Slip syringes? You must have all of this ready to go BEFORE the first chick hatches in about 19 days or so, because if you don't and the parents refuse to feed or house them, or they become violent and hurt them, there's nothing you'll be able to do to help them...You also need to read-up on the hand-feeding schedules for baby Budgies based on their age, as far as how often they must be fed and about how much per feeding, because this all changes based on their ages just like the ambient temperatures they must be kept at change as their age and feather-growth changes...This isn't optional if you want to be ready to go and not have the chicks die...That's what we're talking about. You can plan on having the parents raise/house/warm and feed their chicks, that's totally fine, but you just need to know that it's quite common for that plan to not work out at all; it may be only one chick they refuse to feed or that they start hurting or kick out of the nest-box, it may be a couple of them, it may be all of them. With first-time parents you have no idea what kind of parents they are going to be. They might be wonderful parents and they might not want to be parents at all and purposely try to kill all of the chicks as soon as they hatch...

This is also the reason why you must block-off the nest-box at least 2-3 times a day after the first chick hatches (when both mom and dad leave the nest-box to eat or poop you use a piece of cardboard or something similar to block-off the entrance to the nest-box so you can look at and if need by remove the chicks)...You'll need to check on each chick several times a day after each one hatches to make sure that it's crop is always full and always emptying correctly after each feeding, and if not, after about 12 hours of seeing a chick's crop empty continuously, that's when you have to make the decision to remove them from the nest-box and put them in your real or homemade Brooder and start hand-feeding them on a strict schedule...And if you see that their crops are not emptying properly after the parents or you are feeding them, then you have to assume they have a yeast infection in their crop, and that's when you have to intervene with either Apple Cider Vinegar or Alka Seltzer tablets mixed with unflavored Pedialyte multiple times until the crop finally empties, then you go back to formula or the parents feeding them....

There a lot to doing what you are planning on taking on, even when you're "planning" on having the parents raise/feed the chicks. Plans don't always go as you envision, and with first-time parent Budgies, as our member Amsterdam found out with his first-time parent Budgies, lots of surprises and unexpected things happen, and then it's either you take-over or they die. So we're just trying to help you prepare to you're fully ready and not scrambling when you find that the parents aren't feeding the chicks and having to come on here, post a question about what's going on and what you need to do, and THEN we're telling you that you have to make a homemade-Brooder to house the chick in and that you have to go and buy a candy/cooking thermometer, hand-feeding formula, Apple Cider Vinegar, Pedialyte, syringes/eye-dropper, etc...It's much easier and much, much more successful for the chicks if you are already fully-prepared with all of the supplies and equipment you may need BEFORE the first chick hatches...That's all, we're just trying to help you in advance...
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:55 AM
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Re: Egg bound?

... or you can just let nature take its course and try the 'hands off' approach.
Birds make far superior parents than humans do.
In that case you must be prepared to maybe lose some hatchlings (like you would in the wild)-- although handfeeding also will not save every abandonned chick: birthdefects do not disappear in a brooder.

I do not mean to attack EllenD or anyone else (I respect her way too much for that!) but she may still thinking in terms of "getting the best possible production out of a breedingseason"- which is perfectly allright, but can not be made mandatory for anyone else.


(Yes I am barbarian, handraising is not 'the preferred way/ default situation' over here.)

and since I am being somewhat tactless here I will also add that just breeding budgies 'for practice' is a bit weird (to me anyway), either you breed because you want babies and keep/sell them, but just to be ready for your tiels??
That is almost like breeding your cat because maybe later you want to have your own offspring...

(once again: budgies and tiels here are both cheap and easy parrots, often given to children to practice husbandry on, but maybe where you are budgies are common as dirt, but tiels are exotics??)
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:16 PM
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Re: Egg bound?

Quote: Originally Posted by ChristaNL View Post
... or you can just let nature take its course and try the 'hands off' approach.
Birds make far superior parents than humans do.
In that case you must be prepared to maybe lose some hatchlings (like you would in the wild)-- although handfeeding also will not save every abandonned chick: birthdefects do not disappear in a brooder.

I do not mean to attack EllenD or anyone else (I respect her way too much for that!) but she may still thinking in terms of "getting the best possible production out of a breedingseason"- which is perfectly allright, but can not be made mandatory for anyone else.


(Yes I am barbarian, handraising is not 'the preferred way/ default situation' over here.)

and since I am being somewhat tactless here I will also add that just breeding budgies 'for practice' is a bit weird (to me anyway), either you breed because you want babies and keep/sell them, but just to be ready for your tiels??
That is almost like breeding your cat because maybe later you want to have your own offspring...

(once again: budgies and tiels here are both cheap and easy parrots, often given to children to practice husbandry on, but maybe where you are budgies are common as dirt, but tiels are exotics??)
Actually what I was thinking had nothing at all to do with "getting production out of breeding season" and everything to do with knowing Yumgrinder is going to want these chicks to survive and become pets, and that there is no way in hell that he would just "let nature take it's course" and watch his chicks die...I imagine him scrambling to gather what he needs and posting about how the mother started hurting the chicks or throwing them out of the nest-,box, and asking what to do to save them. I don't at all see him letting them die...And if that was the idea going into this, then he should just boil the eggs in the first place, which he already said he's not going to do...

Also, Yumgrinder already said he is planning to breed his Cockatiels as well, so he's gotta learn how to hand-raise and hand-feed babies, otherwise he's in for a lot of heartache and tragedy that is not fun to watch..

I don't believe that ANYONE should ever allow their birds to breed without being completely prepared and educated to take-over for the parents...If you're simply allowing pet parrots to breed with the plan in place to simply let them die if something goes wrong with the parents and they can't or won't care for them, then you shouldn't breed them in the first place. And if Yumgrinder really wants to start breeding his birds in the future, then that's fine, but obviously he needs to be prepared and learn how to take over....I don't think I ever once bred birds with the thought of "getting the most production possible" out of them... It's not like you make money hand-raising and hand-feeding Budgies and Cockatiels, typically you lose money...I did however always want the babies to survive whenever possible, otherwise I wouldn't ever have bred them in the first place...
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:43 PM
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Re: Egg bound?

Quote: Originally Posted by ChristaNL View Post
... or you can just let nature take its course and try the 'hands off' approach.
Birds make far superior parents than humans do.
In that case you must be prepared to maybe lose some hatchlings (like you would in the wild)-- although handfeeding also will not save every abandonned chick: birthdefects do not disappear in a brooder.

I do not mean to attack EllenD or anyone else (I respect her way too much for that!) but she may still thinking in terms of "getting the best possible production out of a breedingseason"- which is perfectly allright, but can not be made mandatory for anyone else.


(Yes I am barbarian, handraising is not 'the preferred way/ default situation' over here.)

and since I am being somewhat tactless here I will also add that just breeding budgies 'for practice' is a bit weird (to me anyway), either you breed because you want babies and keep/sell them, but just to be ready for your tiels??
That is almost like breeding your cat because maybe later you want to have your own offspring...

(once again: budgies and tiels here are both cheap and easy parrots, often given to children to practice husbandry on, but maybe where you are budgies are common as dirt, but tiels are exotics??)

Yes, I am going to do the hands off approach. I'm prepared to allow the parents to do it themselves, I may interject if I feel necessary, but at this point I am prepared to see them fail as parents, if that is how they learn to be parents in nature, I don't see the harm in it. Of course it would be sad to see the babies die but I see it as nature running its course its not any different then them breeding in the wild. I can at least provide them a safe place and loving encouragement.

Yes, I would like to use this experience with the budgies breeding to learn as much as I can about it. I don't think that's weird at all. I think you are thinking too much into it. I literally am going to watch and learn from this clutch the budgies are laying. I'm not breeding them on purpose to practice, they decided to breed and I am going to allow them. It is not like breeding a cat to practice for human babies, because that analogy is a ridiculous premise, as cats and humans are not the same. I'm using parrots to practice for parrots, get it? and practice isn't really even the right word, I am sorry I used it. I want to use it as a learning experience for future breeding endeavors, if it ever becomes an option.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:54 PM
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Re: Egg bound?

Quote: Originally Posted by EllenD View Post
What we mean by "supplies and equipment" Yumgrinder is that even if you are planning on letting the babies be raised and fed by the parents, you still must ALWAYS be prepared to have to take-over both housing them and feeding them at any moment and any age, from the moment they hatch up through the abundance-weaning process...It's not at all uncommon for parent birds, especially first-time parent-birds like yours, to refuse to feed or lay on the chicks to keep them warm, refuse to feed them at all, actually throw them out of the nest-box, or most-commonly start plucking/mutilating and/or killing the chicks. This can happen at any time with any breeding-pair of birds, and with Budgies it's extremely common...So what this means is the YOU must be completely ready to be able to remove them from the nest-box at any time, be able to house them at the correct temperature immediately (or they'll die quickly if they are younger than 5-6 weeks old and you don't have a homemade Brooder set-up at the correct temperature and ready to go), and be able to feed them proper hand-feeding formula at the proper temperature range (between 104 and 110 degrees F at all times, not one degree colder or hotter) at any moment...

So you have cages and nest-boxes, yes, but do you have a homemade or real Brooder set-up and ready to go that keeps the ambient temperature within the correct ranges depending on the age of the chicks, as I described how to make in my above post? Do you have a canister/bag of commercial hand-feeding formula (Kaytee Exact, Roudybush, etc.), a digital candy/cooking thermometer with a metal probe, unflavored Pedialyte, eye-dropper and oral or disposable Leur-Slip syringes? You must have all of this ready to go BEFORE the first chick hatches in about 19 days or so, because if you don't and the parents refuse to feed or house them, or they become violent and hurt them, there's nothing you'll be able to do to help them...You also need to read-up on the hand-feeding schedules for baby Budgies based on their age, as far as how often they must be fed and about how much per feeding, because this all changes based on their ages just like the ambient temperatures they must be kept at change as their age and feather-growth changes...This isn't optional if you want to be ready to go and not have the chicks die...That's what we're talking about. You can plan on having the parents raise/house/warm and feed their chicks, that's totally fine, but you just need to know that it's quite common for that plan to not work out at all; it may be only one chick they refuse to feed or that they start hurting or kick out of the nest-box, it may be a couple of them, it may be all of them. With first-time parents you have no idea what kind of parents they are going to be. They might be wonderful parents and they might not want to be parents at all and purposely try to kill all of the chicks as soon as they hatch...

This is also the reason why you must block-off the nest-box at least 2-3 times a day after the first chick hatches (when both mom and dad leave the nest-box to eat or poop you use a piece of cardboard or something similar to block-off the entrance to the nest-box so you can look at and if need by remove the chicks)...You'll need to check on each chick several times a day after each one hatches to make sure that it's crop is always full and always emptying correctly after each feeding, and if not, after about 12 hours of seeing a chick's crop empty continuously, that's when you have to make the decision to remove them from the nest-box and put them in your real or homemade Brooder and start hand-feeding them on a strict schedule...And if you see that their crops are not emptying properly after the parents or you are feeding them, then you have to assume they have a yeast infection in their crop, and that's when you have to intervene with either Apple Cider Vinegar or Alka Seltzer tablets mixed with unflavored Pedialyte multiple times until the crop finally empties, then you go back to formula or the parents feeding them....

There a lot to doing what you are planning on taking on, even when you're "planning" on having the parents raise/feed the chicks. Plans don't always go as you envision, and with first-time parent Budgies, as our member Amsterdam found out with his first-time parent Budgies, lots of surprises and unexpected things happen, and then it's either you take-over or they die. So we're just trying to help you prepare to you're fully ready and not scrambling when you find that the parents aren't feeding the chicks and having to come on here, post a question about what's going on and what you need to do, and THEN we're telling you that you have to make a homemade-Brooder to house the chick in and that you have to go and buy a candy/cooking thermometer, hand-feeding formula, Apple Cider Vinegar, Pedialyte, syringes/eye-dropper, etc...It's much easier and much, much more successful for the chicks if you are already fully-prepared with all of the supplies and equipment you may need BEFORE the first chick hatches...That's all, we're just trying to help you in advance...
I have the supplies to make a brooder, if I decide to interject with the babies that is something I am prepared to do. I am also prepared to let them do their own thing. If they die, I will just have to accept it. It's what they do in nature I don't see the need to either stop the breeding or do the breeding for them. to me, letting them be parents for the first time whether they fail or not is no worse than just boiling all the eggs and missing the chance for some to make it. I am prepared to keep them as pets or rehome them (only after verifying no infections). If it turns out its not something I want to do again, I'll focus on discouraging them to breed. At this point, they decided to breed, she's laying eggs, and I am going to allow it.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:04 AM
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Re: Egg bound?

I want to be clear again, I am not "planning" on breeding my tiels, I expressed my want for them to possibly in the future. I am really close to my tiels I think it would be so heartwarming to see them raise babies, but chessie has her issues right now, and neither seem to be interested in each other. I don't see it happening, but maybe as jazz gets older he will see chessie in a different light. He prefers my feet at this moment.
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