Next step in taming process?

Hey folk

I've hit a pretty hard roadblock in the taming process of my two budgies recently and I'm wondering whether I'll get any further with these two. I have a pair, Tyr and Svea, a hen and a **** of nearly a year's age by now who have taken rather well to my training up to this point.

They are both tame enough they don't appear frightened of my hand anymore and they both know how to step up, Svea frequently comes out to fly and likes to sit near me on top of the PC monitor or TV but she wants absolutely nothing to do with my hand while outside of the cage. Tyr is the one who has taken to finger training the best and will stay on but he flips away as soon as I try to take him out of the cage, in general he will never go outside unless by accident.

With no luck whatsoever at getting them to interact with my hand outside or bringing them outside the cage (I managed once or twice by veeeeery slowly lifting them out but they immediately flew off once they realized) I'm not sure what to do.

Anyone with experience who has advice on what I could do?

I’m not sure if you’ve seen this thread, it might have some useful info. http://www.parrotforums.com/budgies-parakeets/72068-taming-bonding-budgerigars-tips-beginners.html

Suggestions from another Budgie-Guardian who also has Not gotten far with training:

(1) Work with them at Night time when they are Sleepy. I am Fully Serious about this suggestion. I work 2nd shift, and every small bit of progress I've made with the budgies has been after work, an hour or so after they've been gently awoken by my coming home. The budgies are still themselves, yet far Less Resistant when Sleepy. Each small step I achieved at night did eventually, with additional work, become repeatable in the daytime.

(2) More Expensive Solution (It worked for me!):
Just go get a Sun Conure! She will happily demand all your attention from your delightful little non-compliant budgies. You will be happy because you will no longer have time to notice your budgies' non-compliance. And the budgies will be jealous because you no longer have time to be troubled by their non-compliance. But, the budgies' jealousy will be offset by their snobbish happiness at decreased requests to interact with the less popular, non-budgie human member of their flock (aka, you), and they will be happy too.

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Oh, I have read the guide and it is very useful! I had a pair several years ago and they were a lot easier to tame, I've been trying to find a good way to work with these two.

I'm definitely going to try out working with them at night, thanks for the suggestion! I would love a conure, had my eye on these guys for a while but I've no space for another cage in my current situation.

One thing I have considered is temporarily moving the **** into my other, smaller cage for a while. I honestly would rate it a bit too small but he is a very passive little guy compared to the hyperactive hen. Never actually seen him play with any toys or show much interest in exploring, worried he might be depressed but he eats, preens, and chirps just fine, with the occasional burst of excitement. He is a lot more receptive to staying on my finger, maybe working with him alone in a smaller space for a couple of days would yield some success.

I have noticed mine are 110% food motivated (namely millet sprays) and that since getting them comfortable around my hand, most training is a simple matter of associating a food reward with the given behavior, they never get forced into performing the expected behavior, but unless they do they never ever get millet for any other reason, it's specifically a training treat and they go nutters over it, hope it helps...as a side note I have both a male and a female, and both were purchased from a big box type pet store and are very likely not raised by hand.