Put deposit down on a WBC, and now I'm scared

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum. Owned a Maxi Pionus years ago who passed at some point and recently decided to start researching and look into a new bird. We bought a GCC reading that they make good apartment birds and long story short on that one...we rehomed the GCC on Friday (to a great, loving, experienced home) because after a few months he was getting louder and louder with the flock calls and the neighbors were not happy. So many good things and progress in upbringing, but I couldn't solve the flock calls before it was going to become an issue with my living situation. All I read says we got really unlucky with a very loud individual...and sure I take responsibilty that I may have not done things perfectly though I promise I put in a lot of effort...but at the end of the day it is what it is. My family lives in an apartment and I still REALLY want to get back into bird ownership...so after that it seemed like a Pionus would again be the best bet.

Was going to local bird focused pet shops and in contact with breeders in search of said Pionus. Got to one local shop who had Caiques...and wasn't even thinking about a Caique at all as they never came up in any research about "quiet leaning birds." But, in talking to the store owner and obviously an avid birder, he didn't really overly push anything but he did guide my wife and I to think Caiques were not typically very loud. Active, yes. Require a strong willful owner, yes. But not real loud...which was the one red line I *thought* we had.

So my wife and I picked up this young Caique, not all feathers in yet but mostly there and other than that fully functional. I asked the guy of all he had, was there one that he thought would be a quite individual as compared to the rest and this is the one he pointed out. We ended up spending an hour with the bird. My wife is not really a bird person like I am and is fairly shy...and this bird never once even nipped at either of us. Very active. Tried to eat her purse strap. Use her hair for a nest. But long story short compared to the GCC we rehomed that also wouldn't let her near him and was headed to becoming a one person bird...this WBC was the sweetest thing ever and endeared itself to my wife. The bird...as most...was also great with me. But to see it with my wife too...

Long story short I put a deposit down on him. He's still being hand fed so it would be a few weeks before pickup...but we have this deposit down.

So now I get online and start reading everything I can on Caiques. Watching youtube. Some seem like they can be chatty. "Ok" I think..."but birds are individuals. We could still be ok." Then I get to this one site..."the good, bad and the ugly about Caiques." Ok the Caique owners on this site make these birds sound like Satan's minions, several saying that when the hit maturity at 2 or 3 years old you may have a bird that you've trained and come to trust for those years who turns on you like Dr Jeckel and Mr. Hyde and starts trying to take your fingers off!

So now I'm thinking..."I don't want to buy a ticking time bomb that I can never really trust. I need to get my deposit back and get a blue headed or a maxi pionus...that I have experience with and know they are not demon spawn like the way these people are painting Caiques." But then...my wife says "but he was so sweet. Are you telling me environment had nothing to do with it...and that all these Caique owners our there are dealing with the devils children at 2 years old without fail?" To which I replied "I don't really know at this point. Maybe I just read 5 or 10 posts from owners who happened to have the worst possible experiences...while 99% of owners never experience this aggression...so let me post in my new forum and try to get some additional expert feedback."

I mean...we're selecting a young bird from many at this bird store, selecting for personality and demeanour. Meeting this particular bird was the final push that caused us to even consider this species. But he's very young. 1) making me think on the good side, we can significantly affect his upbringing but 2) I'm sure his personality is not close to finished being formed, and I don't know how greatly they they can evolve from several weeks old.

All of that said...my question is...are we up.the river without a paddle at this point...that if we take this bird well have to treat him like a turning werewolf at 2 years old and that's that? Or do some of these birds that seem nice...just stay nice? (edit: after reading these forums too I guess I can ask out this way: do any of them ever just stay nice or that is impossible??) If there is truth to the maturity/2 year old thing...can it be handled and dealt with short of wearing welding gloves for the next few years or are they just simply impossible to handle? Lastly...should I just get my deposit back and stock to the Pionus?

Please help. I don't want to make a mistake and I need an experienced Caique mentor on my side! Thanks so much in advance!!

-Bill

I'm reading here that a lot of this stuff are common subjects around here so I appolgize if it seems like I'm beating a dead horse. I do feel like the main twist I mean to focus on is a little different than what I've read from others and that is...this individual bird so accepting of both my wife and I, who different from other Caiques we met, never bit down I've and already seemed to self discipline not to bite hard into flesh while at the same time ripping up anything else that he could...and who accepts my wife so well who is not usually a bird person...is this one bird worth taking all the other risks of a Caique and what he could turn into? Or, would I be better off with less risk getting a Pionus who I'm confident will be laid back and not loud (our one drop dead line in the sand that we cannot have where we live is the noise)... but who could well turn out to be a one person bird and still could be nippy?

We're going to do one or the other...and we're going to work though anything that comes up and are prepared for a 40 year bird...with the exception of the noise line in the sand. If...any bird gets too loud consistently...we'll be forced to rehome. So what would you guys do if you were me? Besides, that is, giving up and buy a snake. Would you get "this Caique" or would you get an as yet undermined Pionus?

-Bill

Nothing? Is it that everyone is right on the fence and not a strong opinion...or is it something I said?

-Bill

Hello I wish you the best of luck but maybe you should wait a little longer until your more sure. Try a rescue where you can get an older bird, that way you can be a little more sure of their personality. I expect my african grey who is 2 to go through maturity and maybe she will no longer like to get pet or held as much but thats just the way it is. I know African Greys may not want to be handled. SO you have to be prepared for the worst I would say at all times. I'm a new parront so I don't have much experience but I know how you feel when you finally decide you want to get a parrot. SUper excited!!!! I wish you the best of luck.

Just guessing about the lack of responses you're getting.

You've already rehomed one bird that was too loud and you've indicated you're willing to do it again because noise is your line in the sand.

Birds are loud. Period. And your willingness to continually rehome probably has turned off a lot of people in this forum.

Maybe you should look into a pet more suitable to your living situation.


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The majority of parrots in the world make lots of noise, it's just what they do in the wild to stay in contact with each other. Therefore this behaviour is often transferred to companion parrot behaviour. I see that you really want to give your parrot a good life but the fact that noise was such an issue originally I foresee this issue arising again. As you don't have the bird yet is there a chance you could withdraw your deposit and take some more time to think about getting another parrot. Maybe it's the wrong time to take in another parrot? The choice to give a home to a parrot should be well thought out. As these animals can live very long lifespans it is wise to plan out when and how you will give them a home. Anyway back to your Caique question it is likely that he will be loud and the same goes for a Pionus. Just because your first bird was quiet does not mean this one will be. Every bird is an individual and reacts differently to their surroundings. Anyway I wish you good luck with any bird you decide to take in.

No one here will advise you to get any parrot at all. Any parrot can turn out to be loud, to be aggressive, to be nippy just as easily as they can turn out to be little sweetie pies that whisper themselves to sleep. But however they turn out, they are long-lived creatures, intelligent and sensitive, who suffer in the wrong circumstances.

Birds are flock animals. A bird depends on its flock. Having multiple companions makes it harder for a predator to pick one bird off, in fact it makes it harder for them to pick any bird off. The flock can take turns keeping watch. Even if they all just watch intermittently, if one spots danger it will alert the others so they can fly to safety. In return, flocks hate sick birds. A bird that is ill will attract the attention of predators, which might then pick off one of the healthy birds instead. A bird that is trapped will sometimes be killed by the flock, so it won't attract predators. So for a bird, especially an intelligent bird like a parrot, being sick is a death sentence, because the flock will drive you out. Having no flock is a death sentence, because you won't be able to protect yourself all the time.

When you rehome a parrot, you are kicking it out of the flock. Sure, maybe the new person is great, but the parrot doesn't know that. All it knows is that it was in a flock, it was safe, and now it's not. Maybe it will come around if the new people are good and if it had a good personality to start. Maybe it will become permanently fearful, so the new people say what the heck, why did you give me this nervous bird that bites an screams, and either puts in it a back bedroom, sells it, or rehomes it to somebody else. You can imagine that it probably isn't going to work out any better for the bird in the third home. With every handoff, what was once a bright, healthy, well adjusted being becomes more afraid, more nervous, or more defensive and more aggressive. They may never find their way back into a loving home, because few people are equipped with the skill and patience to rescue such a poor creature knowing that they may never be trusted.

Long and short, it is no more acceptable to rehome a bird than it is to return an adopted child to the orphanage. Hey, this baby cries all night, take him back! Oh, this toddler caught chicken pox and I can't afford the doctor, take him back! This teenager is giving me attitude and stinkeye and wrecked the car, take him back! When you buy a parrot, you are supporting and industry that breeds these birds for sale, sometimes in good conditions but in the cases of pet stores probably not. The pet store doesn't care what happens to the bird after you buy it, they already have the money. Maybe you'll even come back and buy another one. So there are many more, maybe thousands more, of unwanted and neglected parrot than there are loving homes for them. If you buy any parrot, you are supporting this system and you are responsible for part of the suffering of these intelligent beings.

Alex, the genius African Grey, came from a random pet store. He landed in a nurturing environment where he demonstrated amazing, unexpected feats of cognition that turned our understanding of bird intelligence upside down. If he'd gone to a casual shopper, he might have wound up going insane in a basement because his owner didn't understand how to bring him up. And any of the other birds in the pet store, who did go to random homes, might have had the same potential as Alex. The point I'm making is these beings are far more intelligent than we know, and deserve our greatest respect. If we are to keep them as pets, as ornaments, we are responsible for them forever.

There are some birds with very difficult personality problems that can't live with humans and must go to a different home or different situation, just as there are some humans with difficult problems who much go to mental hospitals or group homes, but these are the exceptions and that is a last resort. There are people here who have endured that tragedy, and it is harder on them than it is on the parrot.

Ask yourself, why do you want a bird? Is it because they are exotic and special? For the thrill of having a winged creature sit on your hand? Because they are beautiful? To be a companion? Perhaps there are other animals, less demanding and needy, who would do better. Tropical fish are beautiful, some cats are exotic, dogs can be good company, rats can be snuggly. There are animals who have been domesticated for a long time, who prefer the company of humans to the company of their own kind, and who would be happy to live with you. And most of them don't live as long: maybe fifteen, twenty years...they adapt better to changing circumstances like new kids...they are more trainable and vet care is cheaper. Parrots are not for the casual. You should not get any bird unless you are committed to providing it the best of care, forever, period. Even if it turns out to bite. Even if it turns out to scream. What is the line from the Little Prince? You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed?

What will happen to the parrot if you wind up divorced, perhaps remarried to someone who hates birds? What will happen if you have more kids? What will happen when the kids go off to college? What will happen when you have to move across the country for work? What will happen when you lose your job, wreck your car, get cancer? Whatever happens to you, the parrot is depending on you for everything. To even say that a if the bird gets loud it's a line in the sand and off it goes disqualifies you. I give you the benefit of the doubt, you are probably thinking of parrots as some kind of feathery domesticated animal like a cat, who can survive quite well in a new home. You probably have never seen things from a flock member's point of view or realized how unnatural it is for parrots to live in cages in houses, and how much misery accompanies their position in the marketplace.

Do rethink your idea of getting a companion bird until you are in a different position. Not living in an apartment or rental house, plenty of time to devote to care and enrichment of the bird's life, and aware of the problems with screaming/chewing/flying/biting that are normal parts of parrot behavior and only a problem in a human house. It's a huge commitment of love and time, a sincere promise, not to be undertaken lightly.

How would you feel about a canary or singing finch? Something that is lovely and fluttery, makes beautiful songs maybe or twitters in a charming way, doesn't need such a huge cage and doesn't get bonded to a human mate? There are birds that could be more suited to your wants and needs. Otherwise you and the parrot will both suffer, and I hate to see a parrot suffer.

Inger said:

Just guessing about the lack of responses you're getting.

You've already rehomed one bird that was too loud and you've indicated you're willing to do it again because noise is your line in the sand.

Birds are loud. Period. And your willingness to continually rehome probably has turned off a lot of people in this forum.

Maybe you should look into a pet more suitable to your living situation.


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Click to expand...

Well I'd that's the case, I'd say people may be more worried about judging others them helping someone out. I didn't ask for judgement. I get enough of that from the world in general. When I join a forum focused on a subject for which we have a shared interest...I'm just expecting to discuss common topics.

I don't mind a discussion about morality and ethics. But you are suggesting in effect that a large number of viewers may have decided to shun me. Let me ask a question. If as the result of some intended unspoken lesson, or if it happens to be from an ignorant response of lack of taking the time to explain and be nice, I had chosen to make a terrible decision...do those who would do such an immature, self rightous thing believe they had made the works a better place or helped parrots in some way?

Gets my response: I have been an animal lover my while life. I have belonged to several herpetology societies and argued for the ethics of moral reptile breeding, and owned just about every kind of animal you can imagine at one time or another...seeking to make the animals life and experience a central part of my life. So again don't assume who I am our come at me...ametuers, acting as if I'm some ametuer. I'm not and beyond not helping any animal at all with such attitudes in this forum...I also don't personally appreciate it.

Yes I will regime an animal that doesn't fit with our family. My family comes first above animals, even though I want to own animals. Do PETA members feel different? Heck with their families and animals come first? If so I say get your properties straight. What I won't do is put an animal in a bad situation. Why is my buying a bird...who was at a pet store and subjected to who knows what, that comes into my home and loved and worked with for several months, and who then I know their personalities so that I can ensure the next owners and this bird will be a perfect match...why does that make me some sort of evil person? Someone not worth of an answer from this forum and after begging, to get a reprimand and tell me why I should no longer be a part of the hobby?

How about this: I'm getting a bird. If you people are mean to me and can't help and decide to kick me off or whatever happens next...live with that whatever happens to my bird could have been improved with your help, but you chose instead without knowing anything about me or my life, to turn me way like anything but a friend.

Consider...you never know who you are talking to on the other end of the internet. Maybe I was happy, thrilled and exited about getting back to bird ownership...and maybe I didn't need this response today.

But I guess in the era or current political leadership...the rule is not to care about others or empathize even a little bit. So congratulations. All you've done is upset a new forum member and made sure I won't ask for help again about my birds...and whatever result that will have on the birds.

-Bill

Thanks to those who tried to be reasonable. This is not the forum I am looking for. Sys Ops...please shut off my account.

-Bill

Bill,

There is an estimated one million Parrots sitting in waiting for homes that at least half or more well never see. No one here wants to see those hundreds of thousands of Parrot spend their life in storage facilities.

The vast majority here want Forever Homes for these Parrots.

Steven,

FYI: Most people do not know that requesting a Sys Ops to shut-off an account. You must have done this elsewhere?

Such good and truly caring (more bird-centric than person centric, yes) above.
A parrot is a risk for an apartment. Any parrot, any apartment.
I wish you (and any future birds) good luck.