Sudden Loss - Trying to figure out cause

Therainbowfamily

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May 16, 2020
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Hello there, we are fairly new to this and a little devastated right now. We thought we had done a lot of research and felt prepared to bring home our new cockatiel on May 1st. It was born end of December, hand-fed, and an amazing bird. We have been completely enjoying this bird every single day. It was rarely in its cage as a result - just at night to sleep, it was usually sitting on my daughter's shoulder (her bird). This morning we woke up and it was dead on the bottom of its cage. We have no idea why. It seemed totally fine when we put it into its cage. It had food and water available. The only thing we can even think of is that we have non-stick pans that we cook with, but we always keep the bird out of the room when we cook. If the bird was taking in small residual amounts of this over the two weeks, could it have built up in its system and ultimately killed it? There was no big event where the bird was close to or directly around it right before its death. But, earlier in the day it had been two rooms away while I was cooking something, for example. And, that happened more than once, since that is the cookware we own. Can this be a build-up over time? Or did maybe something completely different cause its death? We're absolutely confused and devastated.
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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I am so so sorry.
This is a horrible tragedy....
I hope you heal..

I am going to be honest with you-Non-stick pans kills birds through closed doors and on separate floors..... It doesn't always happen the first time, but it can. We have had other members lose birds from pans that had been used for many months (confirmed by vets as PTFE toxicosis). Non-stick/coated items are never safe when heated...It is so dependent on so many factors (including the content of the pan, bird species, age of pan, cook time, oil content etc, acidity, etc but this unpredictability makes it very dangerous).

That having been said, it's impossible to know without a vet's examination. Birds DO hide illness and so that is still a possibility...
Other respiratory irritants are also problematic, such as burning food, air fresheners, paints, aerosols, cleaners etc. :( You didn't know---and you still don't know what the cause was, so it could have been something else, but I am sharing this because you asked...Your bird may have been sick with something else entirely, but you mention the Teflon so I have to be real with you.

If you still have your baby, you could take him for a necroscopy--and the vet can determine the cause of death..assuming he is preserved in the fridge (and I KNOW that is awful to hear)....

SO sorry....I hope that helps...

It is very clear you loved him, and I am sure he knew that too.
 
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Therainbowfamily

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Thank you so much for your response. I was told by a friend who had birds previously that my kitchen is so big that I could likely even get away with keeping it at the far end of our kitchen when we cooked. We were thinking that in another room would certainly be safe. I do have the bird in my refrigerator in hopes of the vet calling me back during this crazy time to see if they will do testing. They have very sporadic hours now, and gave no promises on their machine. Has anyone ever paid for this? Any clue what it can run? We really want to know what happened.
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
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Mar 30, 2020
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I am so very sorry to hear of your loss. I know all to well when it happens all of a sudden for no apparent reason, it seems (to me) to make there passing even worse. Sadly, only time will heal the loss but he will always be in your hearts.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
My deepest condolences for the pass of your cockatiel. There is no time frame for grieving such loss. The absence is profound and you'll never forget your sweet friend. In time, the memories will be brighter than sorrow.

Non-stick cooking fume events are generally sudden incapacitations, I am not aware of buildup over time. The only path to understanding - and there is no guarantee - is a necropsy by certified avian vet. Many times a skilled eye will quickly pinpoint the cause, and I believe the lungs will show telltale signs of poisonous fumes. In the absence of visual evidence, the vet can send tissue/blood samples for pathology report.
 

GaleriaGila

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Welcome, yet under such sad circumstances.
I'm glad you're here. I hop you'll stay with us. We can help.
9lhIlM0.jpg
 

Flboy

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I am so very sorry! Something to consider, if your cookware contributed to his death, that is a major red flag for your family’s health! It doesn’t build up as a poison, it suffocates them! If it is off gassing, you and your children now have it in your system too!
 
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Therainbowfamily

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I never have had to do it, but lots of people on here have-- I really hope someone responds ...I know my vet takes calls still but visits have to be scheduled in a weird way.
I hope you get some answers on this :( again- very sorry for your loss!

I made a post about it (in hopes of getting some answers---none yet, but we will see)
Here you go: http://www.parrotforums.com/questions-answers/85696-necroscopy-cost-not-me-but-another-member.html

Thank you so much for posting about this! So very kind of you! We're actually starting to worry that we may not find someone to do it timely enough. This is all horrible timing on a Saturday morning during a pandemic.

One other very confusing thing.... My daughter reminded me that we've kept our neighbors' budgies and baby ducks and chickens just outside of our long kitchen with no problems at all from the cookware. So now more than ever, we would really like confirmation on what could have happened to this bird, especially if we're ever going to get another one.
 

catastrophe

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Dec 2, 2019
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My condolences for your loss, a tragedy at any time, but compounded by the hectic craziness of our current environment.

This study about PTFE toxicosis mentions that many of the chicks that died from PTFE-fume exposure appeared normal 8 hours prior, but it also lists some things a vet would likely notice during a necropsy.

I’m sorry that you have to do any research on such a topic, but hopefully you can figure out, with the help of a vet if you choose to go that route, what may have caused your sudden loss.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3276392/


Loki - Sun Conure [emoji169]
Clover - Lineolated Parakeet [emoji172]
 
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Therainbowfamily

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Thanks to everyone who responded! Such great information! Okay, I called around like crazy yesterday, yes, on a Sunday, and found that only four miles from my home is the famous New Bolton Veterinary Center that has an Avian Pathology Lab. I knew it was there but thought it was Equine only. The doctor actually called me back on a Sunday and the bird has been delivered there this morning. She also said that because I am a PA resident, the total cost for everything will be $88. Normally she said if I were out of state, it could easily run past $400-$500 for all the labs. Oh my goodness! So THANKFUL!!! I will update here again once I find out the results. This is very important for us to know since we plan on getting another bird. And with that mentioned, does anyone know of any good breeders or bird providers within a couple of hours range of Kennett Square, PA? We are in the corner of PA, DE, MD, and NJ. We are looking for a hand-fed whitefaced cockatiel.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Very fortunate to have located a local vet capable of necropsy and pathology studies as needed. Quite important as you are considering another bird. Closure is also helpful to the grieving process.
 

Inger

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Even if the cause of your baby’s death wasn’t nonstick cookware, I implore you to get rid of it. Stainless steel is wonderful. It’s not cheap but it will last forever. My mom bought me a set for HS graduation in 1988. I replaced it a couple of years ago only because the plastic handles had cracked. New set doesn’t have plastic handles.

And while you’re bird-proofing, remember that candles, essential oils, wax melts, and chemical cleaners can also be hazards to our precious companions.

I think of having a bird as a lifestyle as opposed to having a pet. Every decision I make now includes how it will affect her.


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Cycletim

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Mar 22, 2020
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good ole American made cast iron and enamel ware is good aswell. The initial seasoning some people say is bad is not required. You can do it with relatively low heat on a stove. There are Plenty of YouTube videos on how to care for cast iron out there. I suggest cowboy Kent Rollins.
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
good ole American made cast iron and enamel ware is good aswell. The initial seasoning some people say is bad is not required. You can do it with relatively low heat on a stove. There are Plenty of YouTube videos on how to care for cast iron out there. I suggest cowboy Kent Rollins.

I would look for an antique cast-iron (pre-seasoned)--Made in the USA. That way, you won't have to season (if you go that route).
Just make sure you get it from some place where they haven't tried to fake a patina using weird stuff...
You could probably find some online with reviews behind them (although shipping will cost more).

I have tried seasoning at low heat (pre bird) and I still found that it stunk up the house. Maybe that's just me.
 
Jun 16, 2018
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Teflon is awful stuff, for both people and animal health; there have been numerous studies on this topic done to confirm. Certain countries in Europe are in the process of banning it altogether. I am so sorry for your loss, and having two kids of my own, I know how difficult a loss can be on them especially. I'd definitely try and determine the root cause before you decide to get another! Stay well!
 

Cycletim

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Jasper Congo African Grey,
Grover Red bellied parrot RIP 10/20,
Red bellied parrot Rheya
Lodge cast iron and enamelware is made in USA. It also it pre seasoned. You should to re season it every time you use it. With low heat. Many youtube videos on how to use it. It retains heat very well and you never have to heat past medium to cook.
 
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Therainbowfamily

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Preliminary results are back. So confusing. The vet said that she had starved herself. She was underweight and had no food in her system. We're so confused because she appeared to be eating regularly. The vet said she may have been fake eating to mask her symptoms. She said her lungs were totally fine. We are waiting for some labs to come back with additional results. Another thing that I noticed since seeing a few other birds, her feet were always much cooler in comparison. I'll update once the labs come back.
 

itzjbean

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Jan 27, 2017
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Preliminary results are back. So confusing. The vet said that she had starved herself. She was underweight and had no food in her system. We're so confused because she appeared to be eating regularly. The vet said she may have been fake eating to mask her symptoms. She said her lungs were totally fine. We are waiting for some labs to come back with additional results. Another thing that I noticed since seeing a few other birds, her feet were always much cooler in comparison. I'll update once the labs come back.

So sorry to hear this!

Can I ask what you were feeding her, was it what the breeder you got her from recommended to feed? Or did you try a bunch of new stuff?

Sometimes going to a new house and being given brand new unfamiliar food will cause birds to do this -- they need to be transitioned with food they are already familiar with. What were you feeding exactly?

I do want to mention that we've cooked with non-stick pans for years and have never had issues, our birds are right off our long kitchen and have never had a single issue with cooking. Just saying, from my own personal experience the cookware isn't the cause here.

The only other thing I can think of is that your bird wasn't weaned properly on its own yet -- though rare some birds refuse to eat food on their own until 6+ months old! It's possible that the baby was still being weaned, hand-fed formula and then you bought it just as it was still wanting formula, but never got any.

There's also the possibility that she was just poorly bred -- whether it be the breeder let two related birds have babies or some sort of genetic defect, perhaps she was not super healthy from the start.

So very sorry for your loss. It is never easy, but most of us have also experienced loss like this.
 

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