Cage size for Lesser Sulphur Crested

Rabster

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Hi all,


New to the forum and looking for some advice:


About to become the owner of a young Lesser and are about to buy a cage - so lots of conflicting instructions and am keen to go for the largest we can afford. We have saw the following cage with free delivery up to Scotland (unusual):
 
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Rabster

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Sorry not sure what happened:


http://www.ideas-4-pets.co.uk/images/enterprise 8440.jpg
Enterprise Parrot Cage - SH8440 (343)

Description

This stylish parrot cage has a wide base and is suitable for parrots and other similar-sized birds.
Specifications
  • Overall External Dimensions: 102cmW x 76cmW x 200cm H (inc. skirt & stand)
  • Bar Spacing: 20-23mm
  • Bar thickness: 6mm
  • Tough & durable to provide your bird with a safe environment
  • Oven baked & powder coated in non-toxic paint
    [*]Removeable seed catcher - this is a metal rim that fits around the outside of the cage which helps keep food and mess inside the cage
  • Supplied with 3 stainless steel swing out feeder bowls
  • Supplied with 3 perches
  • Parrot safe door openings, providing maximum security for your bird & easy access
  • Slide out tray for quick & simple cleaning
  • Removeable bottom wire tray
  • Comes complete with stand on castors for easy movement
  • Colour: GREY
 
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Rabster

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Would this be a suitable cage in your opinions?


Worried incase it is to high (people have been telling me this can lead to dominance issues?) - want to give it as much space as possible though, my wife only works part time so the bird will be out for many hours per day but we dont have an outside area for the bird.


Advice reatly appreciated.


Kind Regards
 

Pinkbirdy

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macaw,LS2,congo grey,2Blk Hd caiques,Hawkhead,yellowstrk lory,Blue frnt amazon,sun conure ,Yellow sided greencheek ,Goffin ,Rosebreasted Cockatoo,Greenwing Macaw,Blue and Gold Macaw,Nanday conure,Ecle
IMO that cage is huge !! Maybe Macaw size . Understand your wanting to give them lots of room [good for you for thinking that way] .But I have a Lesser Sulpher and their not that big . Show us other cages your interested in :)
 

MonicaMc

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Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
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I say it's a great sized cage! Only thing I don't like about it is the open top option... Unless it's secured open and shut, I don't like these cages due to potential safety hazards. Besides that, looks to be great for a 'too!

As far as dominance goes... that's just some "bird poop" to *try* and explain why parrots wont come down off the cage top... it's false info and doesn't really explain what's happening... if the bird is properly trained, then he or she would be more than happy to come down! So please, take the word "dominance" out of your vocabulary (when it comes to animals) and instead search for information about positive reinforcement training!!!!
 
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Rabster

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Hi and thank you for the reply,

Glad I asked now:

Do you think the following would be more suitable - have been reading up and the books I have all give different suitable dimensions and the cages we have looked at are either to short, not wide enough.....



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Eagle Open Top Parrot Cage


Elegantly styled Parrot Cage. More Details
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The Eagle Open Top Parrot cage is coated in a lead and toxin free paint for your birds safety. The open top design allows your bird to come out of their cage for extra exercise; it also provides a dedicated safe place for them to play outside of their cage as a wood perch fits across the opening.

A second perch is provided for inside the cage along with a number of feeding dishes.

The large front door allows for easy access, great for when you need to clean the inside of your Parrots cage. It also makes it easier to bring your Parrot out of the cage and getting them back in again.

Fitted on to the legs are easy to move casters, making the Eagle open top Parrot cage easy to manoeuvre. The seed catchers help to keep any mess your Parrot makes inside the cage and off your floor. The grille and tray both slide out again making the task of cleaner so much easier.

  • - African Grey
  • - Amazon
  • - Caique
  • - Conure - Large
  • - Eclectus
  • - Meyers and Senegals
  • Please remember this information is for guidance only - you know your bird best!
Dimensions
Depth 77cm (30.25")
Height 156cm (61.5")
Width 82cm (32.25")
Please Note the Depth & Width dimension include the seed catchers

Inside Height 135.5cm (53.25")
Inside Width 60cm (23.5")
Inside Depth 56cm (22")
Bar Spacing 2cm
Wire Thickness 3mm
Please Note - All dimensions are approximate
 
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Rabster

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I say it's a great sized cage! Only thing I don't like about it is the open top option... Unless it's secured open and shut, I don't like these cages due to potential safety hazards. Besides that, looks to be great for a 'too!

As far as dominance goes... that's just some "bird poop" to *try* and explain why parrots wont come down off the cage top... it's false info and doesn't really explain what's happening... if the bird is properly trained, then he or she would be more than happy to come down! So please, take the word "dominance" out of your vocabulary (when it comes to animals) and instead search for information about positive reinforcement training!!!!




Understood regarding the dominance thing - we wont be having a bun fight with our bird! :)


Thank you for the comment regarding the hazard involved with the open top!
 
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Rabster

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The African grey/Amazon Haiti cage comes with 3 stainless steel food bowls, 2 perches, casters, parrot safe door openings and an opening top. This is a top quality cage which we use for our own pet birds.This cage comes with a new feeder pot and door system, making it much safer and stops the birds from pulling the bowls out.
This cage is purchased by many of our customers to house our African greys, Amazons, Pionus and larger Conures. Comes with seed catchers and in our most popular colour Antique silver.
This cage comes with £20 worth of free Parrot toys.
Comes in Antique silver ( dark black with a silver fleck ).
*Parrotcare recommends this cage*
Technical specifications:
Length 66cm
Width 55cm
Height 156cm
Bar spacing 22mm
 

Pinkbirdy

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Clifton Springs Newyork
Parrots
macaw,LS2,congo grey,2Blk Hd caiques,Hawkhead,yellowstrk lory,Blue frnt amazon,sun conure ,Yellow sided greencheek ,Goffin ,Rosebreasted Cockatoo,Greenwing Macaw,Blue and Gold Macaw,Nanday conure,Ecle
The first one is the size of my Macaw cage :) . I dont know how to describe it [bigger isnt always better] when it comes to smaller 2s . Im looking at the width [I like the 2nd one . ] My cage is 32 inches wide
 

riaria

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Pandora - African Grey
Io - Ducorps Cockatoo
The Enterprise would be, in my opinion, definitely on the smaller side for a macaw (unless it's a mini macaw), but it would be a decent size for a small cockatoo. Don't go for smaller unless you absolutely have to. Unless the parrot has a disability or phobia or any issues like that, bigger is always better.

I'd be a bit concerned about the open top though - cockatoos are experts at opening things, and I've read several accounts of parrots getting their heads stuck by wedging the top open slightly. You could probably secure it shut, but again, most cockatoos are good at opening things, so it's probably safer to find another cage, if you can find one you like.

I thoroughly recommend Scarlett's for UK parrot shopping, http://scarlettsparrotessentials.co.uk/. Good selection, good prices, and if you find a cage you'd like that's not on their website, they can most likely order it in for you :)

Rainforest cages (Scarlett's can get them) have a good selection for good prices, if you're on a budget. :)
 

riaria

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Nov 8, 2012
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Luna - Meyer's Parrot
Pandora - African Grey
Io - Ducorps Cockatoo
(The Haiti is, in my opinion, much too small for greys and amazons, not to mention cockatoos. The website you're quoting is very very unreliable when it comes to cage size recommendations)
 

riaria

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Luna - Meyer's Parrot
Pandora - African Grey
Io - Ducorps Cockatoo
Also just wanted to add that if the cage is tall enough that you wouldn't be able to reach the bird when it's on the top, get a little step stool or similar - we've got a cheap tiny one from ikea and it's perfect if you need to reach a bit higher. :)
 

MonicaMc

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Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
I still think the first cage is the best...

I really wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 32" x 23" cage (81.28 cm x 58.42 cm) for a cockatoo such as a sulphur crested, and if you have the room for a 40" x 30" cage (101.6 cm x 76.2 cm), then I'd say to go for that sized cage!!!
 

Jtbirds

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I say it's a great sized cage! Only thing I don't like about it is the open top option... Unless it's secured open and shut, I don't like these cages due to potential safety hazards. Besides that, looks to be great for a 'too!

As far as dominance goes... that's just some "bird poop" to *try* and explain why parrots wont come down off the cage top... it's false info and doesn't really explain what's happening... if the bird is properly trained, then he or she would be more than happy to come down! So please, take the word "dominance" out of your vocabulary (when it comes to animals) and instead search for information about positive reinforcement training!!!!

Exactly until an animal is trained it can display dominance... But until then it will display that as it needs to find its place amongst ranks this is natural behavior of many animals....
 

MonicaMc

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Sep 12, 2012
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Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
Exactly until an animal is trained it can display dominance... But until then it will display that as it needs to find its place amongst ranks this is natural behavior of many animals....

Sorry, but I call bird poop on that! Dominance doesn't exist!

My bird bites me! He must be trying to dominate me!/My bird is hormonal!

My bird wont step up/avoids me, he's trying to dominate me!


*BIRD POOP!* Saying the bird is dominant or maybe it's hormonal can be an excuse to use force to train parrots or to ignore the parrot and not do the required training that the bird needs.


https://www.facebook.com/chris.harris.790256?fref=ts

Training Tip Of The Day: While it may be 'convenient' to do so, stop blaming aggresion or other behavior problems on something like 'hormones'. The typical Facebook post goes something like this: 'Oh, my bird just bit the crap out of me - he's hormonal'...Every time I see this I think really? Are you sure? How are you sure? Do you have blood tests confirming such? Where is your paperwork from the vet? It couldn't be ANY other cause? Have you identified other potential causes and systematically eliminated them until your hormone conclusion was all that remained? Or are you just GUESSING??? Guessing gets you nowhere. Assigning blame to something you can't really change gets you nowhere. But it's 'convenient'. More convenient than doing some digging, figuring out what is REALLY going on, figuring out what you need to do to change your situation, then implementing your training strategies and STICKING TO IT. Even if something like 'hormones' ARE at work they are NOT the sole cause of your current challenge with Polly. Saying that it is is either inexperience, lack of education, or just plain copping out in my experience. The LAST thing you should do is attribute your birds behavior to an immutable higher power that you are helpless in the face of. You CAN make a difference....if you are willing to do the work. You own the bird - own the problems, even if you didn't cause them in the first place.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lara...aining-and-enrichment/165220980213318?fref=ts

Height dominance, I hear about it quite a bit as a concern in the avian community but have yet to see what this looks like. From what I observe and hear from people, rather it is an issue of working with effective reinforcers and consequences. It is an issue of birds not wanting to come to their handlers when they are 'out of reach'. If a bird is out of my reach or in a high area and does not want to step onto my hand or a perch when offered, whatever consequence it is getting from being in the area it is has more value to the bird than what I am offering. That is an issue of me not working with an effective reinforcer. Many times I see birds running from handlers to avoid undesired consequences such as going to an area (cage, etc.) that gives undesired consequences to the bird. Why would the bird not continue to run from us? If I raise my hand above my head and ask a bird to step up and it opens its beak and lunges at me, of course I will remove my hand but if that bird does not want my hand near it, it has just learned the open beak and lunging has a desired outcome. When I begin teaching a bird stepping onto my hand brings desired outcomes for the bird, this training does not usually begin when I am trying to get the bird to from a 9' tall perch. It begins before the bird has the chance to get out of my reach. I have budgies flying all over the Birdroom. The training of these birds flying to my hand did not begin when they were flying all over the Birdroom. It began the first few days of me getting to know them and getting them to understand that I am one of their deliverers of THEIR very desired outcomes. It began in their original cage and by pairing my walking by their cage with the delivery of millet. Otherwise, I am of no initial use to these birds. I say 'initial' because when consistently paired with noted, desired outcomes, soon I see the bird's reinforcers change and one of those positive reinforcers becomes the chance for the bird to interact with me. I also want to add that the cage does not have to be an undesired place for birds to spend time. By consistently pairing their return with a valued treat or favored interaction from us, being returned to their cages can be a very desirable behavior.

Taking the ?Command? out of the Positive Reinforcement Vocabulary | Lara Joseph

.........This is why a reader of my articles and posts will find me using the word ‘request’. I request behaviors. If I do not get the behavior I am requesting, the bird’s choice is still in the equation. If the bird does not give me the requested behavior, then I have not correctly identified an item or event of fair trade to the bird for the behavior requested or the bird does not understand what I am asking.......

A Quick Example of How Positive Reinforcement Can Help in Preventing an Undesired Behavior | Lara Joseph

..........I have a little dilemma in my household right now. Rico, my Umbrella Cockatoo is showing more nesting behaviors than I’ve ever seen him exhibit. This hasn’t been much of a problem, but I do see how it could quickly turn into a problem if I stop paying attention to detail. He is showing many behaviors some people could and would label as ‘hormonal’. Is he hormonal? Well, he’s maturing and showing signs of what is described as nesting behaviors. This is by no means a reason for me to stop interacting with him, stop working with him, and blow off behaviors and label them as “Oh, he’s just being hormonal.” This would cause me to stop paying attention to detail and give way for the opportunity for some behaviors to become aggressive. I work with these changing behaviors and continue to live and grow with my 4 maturing parrots. I redirect nesting behaviors by reinforcing alternative behaviors such as flight, play, wing flaps, etc......

Behavior Trained Through Consistency?A Win/Win Outcome for All | Lara Joseph

............Birds are not hatched with all of these behavior problems and labels. They learn these behaviors through experience and observation. When they know what actions they make get them the reactions that work in their interest, they most likely will try exhibiting those actions again in the future. Training is learning and communication and birds are knowingly or unknowingly trained to behave much in the way they do. Training is always happening the question is, what are we training?........



To make up such a quick excuse such as the bird is "dominant" or "hormonal" without truly understanding *WHY* the behavior is happening, you are doing a huge disservice to the animal!


If a dog or cat displayed the same avoidance behavior, are they trying to dominate us as well? Huh... that sounds silly! Same goes with parrots being on top of a cage!


If a bird sits on top of the cage and every single time that you take the bird off the top of the cage, you put the bird away with no reward for going back into the cage, then the bird is going to avoid stepping up because it doesn't want to go back in the cage. However, if you picked the bird up from the cage top and placed them on a gym one time, take them outside another time, work on training with them another time, put them inside the cage with the door open and some treats/foraging stuff inside, etc the bird will learn that stepping up is a positive thing and doesn't always mean going somewhere it doesn't want to go.


It has nothing to do with dominance and everything to do with proper training!
 

Jtbirds

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I never said blame the issues on dominace or hormones... as this is something i never do. Monica id just like to point out ive worked with and rehabbed as much as 900-1000 birds so i do understand what you try and point out, but if youd watch wild parrots there is a thing called a pecking order and that is nothing other then dominace, so they do search for some one to dominant and an alpha... as do dogs with the fact they look for the pack leader this is all about dominace amongst the pack. cats do the same thing they all are looking for someone in charge so for a bird to display dominance is something that can happen, but this being said that doesnt mean you should blame the issue on dominance but blame it on your inability to train the bird at the current time. If it is dispaying those issues you must work through them as they do exist and then you therefore become the alpha and they defiantly do follow and believe in you.

Im guesssing you have never worked and or managed a large group of birds that have similar bonds of that to a flock?
 
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Rabster

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Thank you for the input and the additional website which we will have a look at, it has given us much to consider. Will decide on things this weekend and get a cage on order.

Will have a look around at previous posts for answers to some of my questions, if I cant find anything I will be on annoying you all!

My mum keeps hens by the way and they have a real big pecking order :54:

Thanks again
 

MonicaMc

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Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
it can display dominance... But until then it will display that as it needs to find its place amongst ranks this is natural behavior of many animals....

I never said blame the issues on dominace or hormones...

First thing that comes to mind... is that like a girl being "'kind of' pregnant"?

People often do blame it on dominance or hormones. I'm more likely to believe hormones than dominance, but I've been reading a lot lately about people blaming hormones because it's spring and their birds are being extra nippy... but I really wonder, how many birds are actually hormonal? Or is it because of different changes other than hormones causing the bites? And how many birds out there are being "left alone" during the "hormonal time" rather than working with the bird? If a bird is truly hormonal, then the owner can train and encourage non-hormonal behaviors to avoid aggressive situations.


if youd watch wild parrots there is a thing called a pecking order and that is nothing other then dominace, so they do search for some one to dominant and an alpha...

There is no alpha in parrots. Yes, they fight and they bicker, but one bird may win a fight and lose another. Just because they won one fight does not mean that they are then the "alpha".

Natural Encounters, Inc.

To fully understand captive bird behavior people should begin with an understanding of wild bird behavior. Through personal observations, discussions with many parrot field researchers (personal communications: Brice, February, 1994, Munn, July 1998, Gilardi, February, 1999, English, November, 2000, May, May 15, 2001) and review of literature, we have found no evidence of flock hierarchies in wild parrots. The field researchers all attest to aggression and disputes among parrots.

However, the aggressors are not consistent from one incident to another. A bird that loses a confrontation with one bird may just as well win a confrontation with the same bird later. It could be said that the winners of these confrontations are dominant over the losers. However, the dominant position is limited to each specific incident and does not carry over to future encounters. There is no evidence of social hierarchies in flocks of wild parrots that resemble social hierarchies commonly found in many mammal species. If dominance hierarchies exist in wild parrots they are most likely limited to family groups.

as do dogs with the fact they look for the pack leader this is all about dominace amongst the pack.

What if I were to tell you that the "dominance theory" is based on wolves within captivity?

De-Bunking the "Alpha Dog" Theory - Whole Dog Journal Article

The erroneous approach to canine social behavior known as dominance theory (two million-plus Google hits) is based on a study of captive zoo wolves conducted in the 1930s and 1940s by Swiss animal behaviorist Rudolph Schenkel, in which the scientist concluded that wolves in a pack fight to gain dominance, and the winner is the alpha wolf.


Graduate Student/Post-doctoral Fellows Openings - L. David Mech

Schenkel’s Classic Wolf Behavior Study Available in English
Below you can download a pdf version of Schenkel’s 1947 “Expressions Studies on Wolves.” This is the study that gave rise to the now outmoded notion of alpha wolves. That concept was based on the old idea that wolves fight within a pack to gain dominance and that the winner is the “alpha” wolf. Today we understand that most wolf packs consist of a pair of adults called “parents” or “breeders,” (not “alphas”), and their offspring.

And then, what if I were to say that captivity breeds unnatural behaviors???

Natural Encounters, Inc.

So, why do parrots bite in captivity? First, if you put an animal in an unnatural environment you can expect some unnatural behavior. Second, all behavior is a product of instinct or experience.


The Man Who Cried Alpha | Dog Star Daily

At the time, to study wolves, a group was formed by combining wolves from various zoos. These wolves had no relationship with each other, so like any other social group, a sort of hierarchy had to be worked out. This was the situation that Schenkel observed before releasing his famous publication that described wolf behavior, pack order, and the “alpha pair.” Thanks to Mech’s book and other publications that then dispersed this information, the idea of an “alpha” trickled down to the general public.

Since Schenkel’s time, scientists have realized that the story of how wolves form and maintain packs is different than originally thought. The real story is this: A male and female wolf find each other, court, mate, and soon have offspring. The parents affectionately guide the offspring, teach them necessarily life skills, and keep them safe. Those pups, at about a year of age, become older siblings to the next litter, and like human siblings, dominate the new pups—but there is no “fighting for rank.” The rank is obvious. The parents are still in charge, period. Eventually, the offspring will disperse and eventually form their own packs.

Does any of this sound familiar? Does the accurate information about wolf packs sound more like wild animals constantly having to fight for rank, suppressing each other’s behavior, and rolling each other on their backs to prove dominance? Or does it sound more like human family structure


Wolf Status and Dominance in Packs -Alpha Status


If it is dispaying those issues you must work through them as they do exist and then you therefore become the alpha and they defiantly do follow and believe in you.

"your inability to train the bird at the current time" - I like that, and I believe it true.

But to say that dominance exists in the wild when there has been no actual proof that it exists is misleading... and to try and "assert" yourself as "alpha" may lead to problems down the road with the animals. Training a parrot to do as you ask (not demand) is not dominance, it is training, pure and simple.

Birds don't follow humans because humans are the "alpha member" - they follow humans because they associate good things with humans. A bird who does not associate good things with humans is not likely to "follow" them or enjoy interacting with them.

Living With Parrots Cage Free: My Bird Knows When She Is Bad, Right?? !! (Hmmm)...

Im guesssing you have never worked and or managed a large group of birds that have similar bonds of that to a flock?

I may not have as much experience as you handling a variety of parrots and in large quantities, but this is one topic I will not back down on!

That said, I do have a flock. This flock consists of four cockatiels and a bourke parakeet. NOT ONCE have I seen any bird "assert" dominance over any other bird! Yes, they bicker and quarrel over food dishes and perches, but no one bird is dominant over another! Out of this entire flock, I have only one male cockatiel... and he is bonded with a female cockatiel... so that should make them the alpha birds, right? Nope! Pistachio, the male, does like to "bully" the other birds around, making them move off of perches and dishes that he wants to be at. At the same time as saying that, the bourke parakeet (who's 1/3 his size and is *NOT* an aggressive species like a lovebird is, actually quite passive, like cockatiels!) will come up right behind him and attack his tail feathers until he moves! Does this then make her dominant over him? Again, not at all! Just because she may have one that quarrel doesn't mean that she'll win the next one with him... and these quarrels do not make them the "alpha bird" - the entire flock has various quarrels and squabbles with each other and each quarrel between them does not always end the same.

This, to me, sounds much more "natural" (as natural as a captive flock can be) than believing in dominance that hasn't even been proven to exist in wild populations of wolves or parrots.




Rabster, sorry for taking this "off topic", but to say that it's a pet peeve of mine that parrots are supposedly dominant creatures may be an understatement! :xmas_lol2
 

Jtbirds

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Monica I do not believe you get my point as birds can yes display dominance but it isn't a true issue... As stated With the case to case basis in the wild parrots report they show dominance on a case to case event, so in one even they show they are dominant that that branch is there's and in the next maybe not so much... That is still dominate behavior and it yes is not reoccurring and a huge issues, but they can try to make dominating decisions on there own. I am not going to load my defense full of links and quotes because you will never admit partial truth in certain topics you strongly believe, but as you I have my own topics that I strongly disagree upon like gender preferences and so on and clicker training. So I will not force the topic further as everyone has there own opinions on what these animals do but truly we have no idea we are guessing because we are not the animals themselves.
 

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