Advice on Female U2's first(?) Breeding season

NeverBroken

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So Miss Lola's been home with us 3 weeks now, and was an absolute doll the first two weeks. She and I got along great, but she adored my husband right from the start- even though she spent most of her time with me, as I work from home and he leaves for work each day. The last owners said she was like this with the husband there too- she just loves men. Which is totally fine :) But for the last week she has been acting hormonal, and guarding my husband from me. She has attacked me several times, only when he is home. When we're along all day she is still pretty good with me. Once he gets home she starts clicking her tongue on her upper beak making it very clear she wants nothing to do with me, and she will attack me if I push it, or even just sit on the couch near her. She has even chased me on the floor, leading to me jumping on furniture to keep her from attacking me (this was just the first night, I stand my ground now while keeping her from biting me, but calmly get my husband to put her in her cage, or I just hold up the towel and sometimes she will go back in on her own just from seeing it)

No worries, I get it- she's 5 years old, it's breeding season and she's chosen hubby as her mate. Her last family didn't mention any issues in this area, but they rarely do, do they? I spent all week reading online and here trying to get all info possible on how to deal with her during this time, but I'm having an incredibly hard time finding info on females during breeding season. 99% of what I find is about males, or about actually breeding- which is the opposite of what I'm looking for, lol.

We are limiting her time with him, I am the only one giving her treats, toys, feeding her, etc. We are making very sure to only pet her properly, (her family pet her all over so she is used to that and begs for that kind of attention but we have learned better) and have taken steps to give her more pitch dark sleep time. When she does attack me or even just start with the tongue clicking, she goes right back into the cage. We have had to towel her at times to get her in the cage unfortunately, but when she's chasing me trying to bite me, it has had to be done. I've also started putting less food in her bowls so she doesn't have that 'abundance' issue. Took away her one shredding toy, she has been 'shredding' her wood toys, but not any differently then she has the last few weeks we've had her, and she hasn't tried to make any type of next in her cage. She does try to go under pillows or blankets though when she is really worked up and in attack Mommy mode, so we make sure she doesn't have access to that type of thing.

I am keeping a very positive but firm attitude with her, and treating the whole thing with love and compassion. She seems so very confused sometimes, as I have tried to win her over when she was tongue clicking next to her 'mate' and I talked silly to her and pet her head anyway- she will let me pet her, and tries to snuggle with me, then goes back to her
'back off!' behavior, like she doesn't even know what she wants. So I more feel bad for her then being irritated or negative. And her bites hurt but have yet to break the skin, so at this point I am not showing any fear of her biting, but I am certainly respectful that she could do major damage and take the appropriate safety precautions.

So any advice, or even links to advice on female breeding behavior in captivity would be awesome. Particularly I am wondering the following:

Should she be allowed limited attention with my husband, say until she acts hormonal then put in cage- or should she have no physical contact from him at all? We are limiting contact at this time.

Is putting her back in her cage everytime she acts that way the right thing to do? Or should we just put her on her playstand to distract her?

Is it common for the bouts of hormonal aggression to be sporadic during this time, or is it usually more an all day thing?

Is there anything else I can do for her to make her less hormonal then I'm already doing, and/or to re-enforce our bond? Or should I just let it play out as it has been?

If she's been hormonal and had to be caged, if she is being nice again awhile later, I will take her out again. She is good for awhile, then back at it and back in the cage she goes. Should I keep responding to her when she's good in her cage by giving her out of cage time, or should I just leave her in her cage most of the time because it will not end well when she's out? I have kept up the taking her out as we were giving her a lot of out of cage time previously, and didn't want to make her more upset by keeping her locked up so much now... but I'm not sure if this is right for her hormonal situation?

Also, are there any other signs besides nesting that I need to look out for in case she decides to lay eggs?

This came on rather suddenly, and I am pretty sure it had to do with something I did the night it started- there were a few ways I could have freaked her out, from using a new conditioner with a strong fragrance, styling my hair in a different way, using a towel in front of her since she is scared of them, etc. But it hasn't gone away, and her actions def seem hormonal, which lead me to believe it is breeding season and I've either somehow startled her into it, or it just coincidentally started at the same time (which I doubt) or perhaps even... that it's my own hormonal time? I read up on that too and it seems that can occur with males, but rarely with females. If it is related to that, it is not due to my being irritable or acting any different, I don't have classic pms like that. I was actually quite calm and content that night as I usually am with her.

Sorry for such a long post, but I believe giving as much relevant info as possible gets the most helpful answers in return :)
 

MikeyTN

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A friend of mine have a female and she's the devil when it comes to hormones. She had her for over 10 years and she have bites all over her whenever Lily goes hormonal. So she give her space and let her be for the time being. By the time hormone was over, she's back to her old self. She'll get angry when she's frustrated not being mated with.
 
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NeverBroken

NeverBroken

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Thanks Mikey. By leave her alone though, do you mean I should just leave her in the cage all the time? She is used to being out most of the day with me, so leaving her in there makes her very unhappy. Right now I'm just trying to keep her on her playstand as much as possible, and keep her supplied with good things to chew as she is crazy destructive right now. Limiting her time with her 'mate', my hubby. But everytime we do let her have some time with us on the couch she is trying to get under blankets, pillows, even under us as much as she can- pushing her head behind us, etc.

I just want to do what's right for her.... it's crazy how there is SO little info on females :/
 

MikeyTN

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My friend kept Lily on her play stand cause she does get to come out even during this period, but not on the floor, she's a terror on the floor during this time. Don't allow her to go underneath places!
 
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NeverBroken

NeverBroken

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Agreed- we are def keeping her off the floor. She climbs down from her cage (playstand is on top) and immediately tries to go under my recliner too, so she is def looking for nesting spots. Hasn't made anything in her cage I'd consider a nest though. She has def bit me quite a few times this past week, but I've gotten a lot better at preventing them by reading her body language. However sometimes she is sweet as pie, then bam! Bites me out of nowhere, lol. Little devil indeed....
 

MikeyTN

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"Willie"&"Lola"B&G Macaw,
"Dixie"LSC2, and "Nico" Scarlet Macaw.
Just be real careful, IF she gets on the floor, wear some steel toe boots and jeans. Also have a stick with you to block between her and you if she does get on the floor and acting crazy. I did that with Java before when he gets on the floor. He was sneaky too, he climbs down very quickly and gets on the floor before you even have time to stop them from doing so....
 

Marcy

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Neverbroken, I just need to commend you for doing such a great job with Lola & for giving great detail regarding her behavior in search of answers! I have 2 cockatoos, a Goffin's Cockatoo,Lex (male) and a Major Mitchell's Cockatoo, Bella (female). My mother also has a Goffin's. I feel this indeed is hormonal. Do give her some space,,let her play on her play stand, talking to her, giving her treats etc. You're doing great not letting her on the floor & putting her back into her cage when in mommy attack mode, this is exactly what I do! I usually give them about 10mins then let them back out. Sometimes I repeat this action 4 or 5 times in a row, but then they stop because they don't want back in their cages. Mine dont attack me, they attack others in my family. My son will spend time just standing by their stands talking to them each day to gain their trust. Remember, this too shall pass! And it will!! You are doing wonderful! Keep doing what you are doing, let her play on her play stand, after this is over, it will bring you closer!
 
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NeverBroken

NeverBroken

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Hi Marcy,
Thanks so much :) Hearing from someone who is going through something so similar is very reassuring. I think part of the reason it is so hard is that we only had her two weeks before it started... and she and I had bonded SO much! Now to have her act as if she hates me most of the time can be hard to handle. But it does go away, right??? LOL How is she with others when she's not hormonal, like with your son? Does it just go back to 'normal'? I keep thinking she will like remember that I was 'mean' (ie, putting her back in the cage, or having to hold up the dreaded towel so she runs back in her cage on her own, etc) and that our relationship will be forever tarnished because of this.... *sigh*

Today was actually a really good day though, the first day she has seemed like 'normal' again, and we spent a lot of time together with no issues until 'Daddy' came home. Which she was still mostly ok, but I know more now on how to act with her when she's 'fresh'. But then I showered and put my hair down as we were going out tonight and EEK! Full on Mommy attack mode again, just like that first day.... she literally chased me out of the house LOL. We'll have to see if she forgives me tomorrow....

Any thoughts on your experiences would be greatly appreciated- it really does help calm my mind :) Btw, I'm in upstate NY- kinda neighbors!

And your birds are gorgeous! I love the beauty of Major Mitchell's, I have heard they are pretty hard to handle, do you find that to be the case?
 

Marcy

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Hi Marcy,
Thanks so much :) Hearing from someone who is going through something so similar is very reassuring. I think part of the reason it is so hard is that we only had her two weeks before it started... and she and I had bonded SO much! Now to have her act as if she hates me most of the time can be hard to handle. But it does go away, right??? LOL How is she with others when she's not hormonal, like with your son? Does it just go back to 'normal'? I keep thinking she will like remember that I was 'mean' (ie, putting her back in the cage, or having to hold up the dreaded towel so she runs back in her cage on her own, etc) and that our relationship will be forever tarnished because of this.... *sigh*

Today was actually a really good day though, the first day she has seemed like 'normal' again, and we spent a lot of time together with no issues until 'Daddy' came home. Which she was still mostly ok, but I know more now on how to act with her when she's 'fresh'. But then I showered and put my hair down as we were going out tonight and EEK! Full on Mommy attack mode again, just like that first day.... she literally chased me out of the house LOL. We'll have to see if she forgives me tomorrow....

Any thoughts on your experiences would be greatly appreciated- it really does help calm my mind :) Btw, I'm in upstate NY- kinda neighbors!

And your birds are gorgeous! I love the beauty of Major Mitchell's, I have heard they are pretty hard to handle, do you find that to be the case?

NeverBroken, I am so glad I was able to help you!!!! Yes we practically are neighbors! I take my daughter with autism to Pittsburgh Children's Hospital 2 days each month, my son to Erie, PA to a specialist and my niece goes The National Technical Institue for the Deaf, so we are north a good bit! I promise you she doesn't hate you! Yes it goes away!! Bella wouldn't go to anyone except me. My son Jan worked so hard to allow her to hold her one time, then she refused just like everyone else. Just yesterday I had the 4 big parrots in the outside enclosed canopy aviary that I sit outside with them in, and when Jan walked by she lifted her feathers and started reaching for him. He said, "mom i think she wants me". I told him to come in and she went right to him and was all excited! I started snapping pics! :) You're not mean, your just kindly teaching her just like we do our children. I always say, "no" in a little louder voice, then say nothing else. The no is to let them know they were wrong, but by not saying anything else, therefore your not interacting with her, which is what she wants. After leaving them in a few mins, i open the door and talk very happy and peppy to them to give them that positive interaction. Any time your not having to be negative (putting in cage)be very positive and excited to her. Talk to her as much as possible! My spectacled Amazon had similar issues. He was put in his cage over and over. When I removed him from the cage i said to him, "Good Boy". (he came out without nipping at all) Now he says, "Good Boy" with exact fluctuation and excitement in his voice that I have! :) It was a positive thing that he remembered! Does this all make since??

I am so glad you had a good day! She will forgive you for having a wet head. ;) I will keep thinking of things that would help you and type them when they come to mind.

Thank you so very much for your kind words regarding my birds!! I will copy and past what I just typed in Bella's post about MM2s to answer your question, in the next post.

Please let me know if you have any more questions!
 

Marcy

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I indeed would love to share how it is to live with a MM2, and thank you for asking! Bella and I had a special connections from the moment we met, which was a blessing since she was. my life long dream bird! The MM2 are a very fragile species! I am very careful of everything I do and her surroundings. I personally can't take her to the vet, someone else must. I don't do anything negative towards her or I would risk our relationship. She is a for sure a one person bird! I'm the only one she will let hold her, cuddle with her and preen her neck and head. She wants me to hold her all the time,but does well playing herself. She is frightened easily. I always tell her before I turn on the light or someone else enters a room. I actually talk her through things just like I do with my daughter with autism. She is very sweet &gentle with me. She gently preens my eye lashes.She is a wood chewer! We are blessed to own a lot of land, with Sycamore trees, and my husband cuts large branches down, and my aviary is filled ith them for the birds to play and climb on. Bella goes through hers much quicker than my other parrots!! She is very quiet saying sweet sounds, but also talks and dances fantastic. I actually have a video on my aviary youtube channel of her! My aviary is called, Marcys Mountain Aviary. She is really intelligent and has an excellent memory. Her feathers are like silk. Its hard to explain. I thought Lex my G2 was the softess parrot possible, but she is more silky. She has a lot of big feathers, especially around her neck. I love to preen her long crest feathers! Her beauty never stops stunning me and taking my breath away!! Its a blessing to watch her. I never take for granted the relationship she and I have. Its a lot of hard work, but more that worth it! She gives to me far greater than I give to her!
 
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NeverBroken

NeverBroken

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Thanks Marcy :) I hear what you are saying, very good advice. Today she is unfortunately being a little nightmare... Daddy being home for the weekend and all, I am her enemy. She did manage to bite one of my toes too today- I'm going to be covered with Too bites before this season is through! Luckily she just barely breaks the skin, it hurts, but not even as much as a bee sting. So I can deal with it. She has been screaming a lot today too- ignoring it doesn't make her stop. Unfortunately we've had to cover her now after her screaming for several hours because she wants out of her cage but when I let her out, she just wants to attack me. *sigh* Covering her does work, she is quiet or speaks nicely hoping to get our positive attention, but I do feel bad about it :(

Thanks for sharing your info on Bella! She is wonderful... and I find it very interesting how your experience with your autistic daughter has served you so well with Bella regarding how you interact with her. I read the other thread as well about how your birds entertain your daughter when she's going through rough periods- that is so sweet :) They can be such clowns, it's a joy to behold. Sounds like you have a wonderful little family there!

We are about an hour north of pa ;)
 

Marcy

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I am so sorry it was a rough day! Monday will be easier! Keep being patient, you will do great and it will be worth it all! Any time Lex (G2) gets on the floor I say, "No Floor" and put him back up on a tree. if he does it 3x he goes in his cage. he picked up quickly on that one! I didn't want him to become a toe biter. I am so sorry you got bit, you stay consistant in what you are doing and he will stop.

Thank you most for what you said about Hannah! They are amazing with her! She has thrown a 330lb man against a wall during a medical procedure, but holds bumblebee sized parrotlets right after they are born in the palm of her hand!! They have taught her so much!! When you get a chance, visit our web site. :) Marcy's Mountain Aviary
:)
 
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NeverBroken

NeverBroken

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Thanks Marcy, I will check your site out :)

We have tried the same thing with the floor, she just doesn't quit. She climbs down, we put her up on her playstand- next time, again. 3rd time- back in her cage. We've done this over and over, she still goesn't 'get' it.

Not sure if cross posting is ok here, but I'm wondering if you might have some insight on a new thread I just posted- seems the crazy behavior is more then just breeding season now as I've confirmed her most aggressive behavior is when I wear my hair down.... http://www.parrotforums.com/questio...-put-my-hair-down-now-attacks.html#post308425 Your thoughts in that thread would be appreciated :)
 

Marcy

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Thanks Marcy, I will check your site out :)

We have tried the same thing with the floor, she just doesn't quit. She climbs down, we put her up on her playstand- next time, again. 3rd time- back in her cage. We've done this over and over, she still goesn't 'get' it.

Not sure if cross posting is ok here, but I'm wondering if you might have some insight on a new thread I just posted- seems the crazy behavior is more then just breeding season now as I've confirmed her most aggressive behavior is when I wear my hair down.... http://www.parrotforums.com/questio...-put-my-hair-down-now-attacks.html#post308425 Your thoughts in that thread would be appreciated :)

Thanks for checking out our site! I am not sure if we are allowed to post our website links on the forum thats why i didn't give you the exact address. just add the .org to it. :) You will see lots of photos!

I for sure will go read your new thread right now. Tell me, how old is she??? Can you give me some of her back ground, or what you know?? Going to the other thread now.
 

Marcy

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NeverBroken, I just had a thought while getting ready for church so I wanted to post you a message real quickly before leaving. Is she getting 12 hours of sleep/darkness at night??
 
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NeverBroken

NeverBroken

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Hi Marcy :)

Yes, making sure she was getting enough pitch dark sleep was one of the first changes we implemented when she started getting ornery. She is 5 years old I'm told. We are her 3rd owner. She was with her last owner, a family with younger kids, for 3 years. I did call the prev owner the other day, and got her to admit that she has bitten before, but then she backtracked when I said 'your ad said she had NEVER bitten', and said that she used to bite the original owner, but never the previous owner. She did confirm though that they went through a breeding season last year with the same types of issues.

Other then that, that's all we know about her- we've had her about a month now I guess. First couple weeks she was an absolute Doll. She and I bonded very well, but she always got very excited when my husband was around. She was to be my pet more then his, so he didn't interact with her nearly as much as I did, but we had been told when we got her that although she got along great with everyone, she loved men. So this wasn't a shock, but now that she only likes him if he's around it's quite a pita since I'm the one who cares for her most of the day, and she was supposed to be 'mine' :( . Traitor! haha

I should also add, I know the first few weeks are the honeymoon period, and she's just getting used to us- but this change is definitely hormonal. And we actually thought it was quite strange that she took to us right away, never acted afraid or aggressive in the least. Didn't seem homesick or even surprised at the change of home and family. She was just a happy girl from the first moment we brought her home. So this is definitely not what we were expecting :( But if its hormonal, then it is what it is, and it comes with the territory. Just such a big change so fast! And then the hair issue.... that we will be working on. Today hair's up, she's ok with me, but def would prefer to be hanging out with Daddy.
 
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Marcy

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Hi Marcy :)

Yes, making sure she was getting enough pitch dark sleep was one of the first changes we implemented when she started getting ornery. She is 5 years old I'm told. We are her 3rd owner. She was with her last owner, a family with younger kids, for 3 years. I did call the prev owner the other day, and got her to admit that she has bitten before, but then she backtracked when I said 'your ad said she had NEVER bitten', and said that she used to bite the original owner, but never the previous owner. She did confirm though that they went through a breeding season last year with the same types of issues.

Other then that, that's all we know about her- we've had her about a month now I guess. First couple weeks she was an absolute Doll. She and I bonded very well, but she always got very excited when my husband was around. She was to be my pet more then his, so he didn't interact with her nearly as much as I did, but we had been told when we got her that although she got along great with everyone, she loved men. So this wasn't a shock, but now that she only likes him if he's around it's quite a pita since I'm the one who cares for her most of the day, and she was supposed to be 'mine' :( . Traitor! haha

I should also add, I know the first few weeks are the honeymoon period, and she's just getting used to us- but this change is definitely hormonal. And we actually thought it was quite strange that she took to us right away, never acted afraid or aggressive in the least. Didn't seem homesick or even surprised at the change of home and family. She was just a happy girl from the first moment we brought her home. So this is definitely not what we were expecting :( But if its hormonal, then it is what it is, and it comes with the territory. Just such a big change so fast! And then the hair issue.... that we will be working on. Today hair's up, she's ok with me, but def would prefer to be hanging out with Daddy.

You have actually been heavy on my heart today! I've been thinking and watching Lex and Bella for clues to tell you that would help. I really appreciate you giving me all the history you know, that indeed helps! I have to say this first, dont give up! I know its so frustrating, and their minds are so complex. She inside is so scared. She has been passed off 3 times now so she has no security! I know with raising my babies I breed, that my goal is to have owners in place the day they wean & involve the family, so they bond and the transition isn't devastating to them. When they are older babies, they have a very hard time adapting to a new environment & problems arise needing me talking them through them. Time and patience by the owner pays off and allows them to form a bond with their baby and have a true companion. With her being 5 years old, and already in 3 homes, she will need more time and patience to get there! We don't know what she has gone through. She is traumatized. Once you prove over a longer period of time, that you are not going to hurt her, rehome her, neglect her or mistreat her, she will trust you! Once she becomes comfortable in your home, she will be part of your family. Its going to be trial and error. What works for some may not work for her. You will learn her body language, and personality now that the honeymoon period has ended. Keep asking questions on the forums after observing her! You can ask me any time!

Thats sad she wasn't truthful about her biting before. :( Its good that daddy does continue not interacting too much since she is suppose to be yours so that she can bond with you! That is indeed a big change fast. Hopefully you will see changes for the good the same way! Dont give up, you are doing great by asking and trying to solve this!! :)
 

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