Seeing improvement with Sucre

Things really seem to have settled down this week. I haven't been bitten once, but I am heeding the great advice I got here.

I deal with him a lot in the cage. If he starts demanding attention, I am the one who goes to him and talks him through it. A head scratch, some conversation and a treat will usually calm him down. I'm not referring to the usual displaying screeching sessions, he's not used to be caged at all and gets really agitated at times. It's almost comical, because his voice changes completely when this happens and he literally tries to tear his cage to pieces - I told my husband the other night that I thought maybe an exorcist might be of help!

I am the "bringer of all food", and make sure I always have his favorite bananas mixed in. We also bonded over cheddar cheese cubes, and those will calm the storm every time.

Since he can no longer fly, my husband is able to get him out and he can't dive bomb me, but he's no longer really acting like he wants to. Occasionally he will crouch as if he's going to take off, but he must realize he can't before he even tries. Where I had to leave the room before, I am now able to walk up to my husband and feed or scratch Sucre's head while he has him out. If I sit down, he comes straight to me and climbs my body and goes straight for my shoulder, which I am not comfortable with yet because my face is what he went for when he went into full fledged attack mode. He will come into the kitchen with me and watch me prepare their food.

I'm working on trusting him again, my husband knows what not to do as far as loving on him, and I'm trying hard not to show that he scares me a bit.

One thing I would like to fix...If we leave the room, he goes into screech mode. He absolutely cannot stand for one of us to not be in the room with him while he's caged. We ignore it, but there doesn't seem to be a cut off point until one of us returns to the room. (We already warned the neighbors that contrary to how it sounds, no one is being murdered in our house.) Houses aren't that close together, but Sucre has a BIG VOICE

All in all, things are going well, I think. I'm happy about that. He's definitely turned out to be my husband's baby, but that's fine with me, as long as he doesn't try to rip me to shreds again.

Question, and I'm not sure I want to hear the answer...How long does mating season last and how often does it roll around?

Thats so great!! Ive been following you post on Sucre and this is wonderful news. I guess baby steps in the way to go!

So glad to know you have made progress with Sucre! With dedication and yes, a willing partner in Sucre, you will hopefully meet your goals without much slippage.

Ahh, mating season. Really not sure if there is a defined zone with Toos in captivity. I believe it is somewhat dependent on temperature in your locale. FWIW, my 3 Goffin babies were born over a 4 year span in the months ranging from January to March.

Glad to hear it!

Well, he's back in manic mode. This may sound crazy, but I'm starting to believe it may be weather related, even though he's inside a climate controlled home. We had a few warmer days (good behavior) and the cold settled back in 2 days ago. Last night he was a horror when out of the cage. He became very agitated and we could tell that I was causing the agitation every time I came in the room.

It's a bit frustrating. Every time I think we're making progress, we're back to square one. He even tried to bite me when I was feeding him last night, and as soon as I got the bowl in place, he climbed in with both feet and threw every single one of his veggies and treats in the floor of the cage.

My husband had him out for awhile, he seemed okay when I was in the kitchen making dinner and doing laundry. As soon as I walked into the den to sit down and relax, he started pacing back and forth on my husband's shoulders and arms. He often seems to be having arguments with himself - my theory is that the people who had him argued a lot. You can't understand everything he says, only bits and pieces, but it's the tone of his voice that lets you know he's working himself into a frenzy. He mimics a male and female voice, talking back and forth to himself. The feminine voice is low, and a little bit whiny, the male voice is loud and hostile. He started doing this last night while pacing on my husband. He couldn't let him down because he knew he was going to go after me. He ranted for close to a half an hour, and then all of a sudden yelled "Stop complaining!!!"

I feel like I'm dealing with a schizophrenic 2 year old.

My husband is so attached to him. I love him, but I'm still a bit afraid of him. There's nothing easy about this.

Two steps forward, one back.... Sorry you had a setback, but the trend seems overall positive. Stick to the tactics that work, and hopefully Sucre will continue to mellow and improve.

Sucre said:

Well, he's back in manic mode. This may sound crazy, but I'm starting to believe it may be weather related, even though he's inside a climate controlled home. We had a few warmer days (good behavior) and the cold settled back in 2 days ago. Last night he was a horror when out of the cage. He became very agitated and we could tell that I was causing the agitation every time I came in the room.

It's a bit frustrating. Every time I think we're making progress, we're back to square one. He even tried to bite me when I was feeding him last night, and as soon as I got the bowl in place, he climbed in with both feet and threw every single one of his veggies and treats in the floor of the cage.

My husband had him out for awhile, he seemed okay when I was in the kitchen making dinner and doing laundry. As soon as I walked into the den to sit down and relax, he started pacing back and forth on my husband's shoulders and arms. He often seems to be having arguments with himself - my theory is that the people who had him argued a lot. You can't understand everything he says, only bits and pieces, but it's the tone of his voice that lets you know he's working himself into a frenzy. He mimics a male and female voice, talking back and forth to himself. The feminine voice is low, and a little bit whiny, the male voice is loud and hostile. He started doing this last night while pacing on my husband. He couldn't let him down because he knew he was going to go after me. He ranted for close to a half an hour, and then all of a sudden yelled "Stop complaining!!!"

I feel like I'm dealing with a schizophrenic 2 year old.

My husband is so attached to him. I love him, but I'm still a bit afraid of him. There's nothing easy about this.

Click to expand...

Hi just some thoughts on reading through your latest news of Sucre. It's almost as if he's expecting you to behave like the previous owners, and you don't. Perhaps in his head why not?? I would give it a go at trying to distract this argument going on in his head when it happens with a good an positive behaviour and a good way is to sing and dance and be goofy. Doesn't really matter what you sing "Happy Birthday", "You are my Sunshine" for example and we always do Yahoo at the end so mine can anticipate this and join in with this. It sounds crackers but it is enjoyed and he loves to join in with us. Sucre obviously still has a lot of c**p going on up there in his head and guess what I'm trying to say is if you can lessen the hold it has on him you may come off better in the long run. No one will ever truly know what this bird experienced will they? Don't worry re the one step forward, two steps back that's how it goes and then it can/may/will change if they want it too. Have you thought of keeping a diary it can help trying to work out triggers etc. Keep going you are doing great, be strong but most importantly be happy, good luck

This past week has definitely had it's ups and downs.

Sucre is not growing fonder of me. I have had only "in cage" interaction with him, and I thought it was going pretty good. He would come to the side of the cage for head scritches, and was always okay when I fed him. This week, he's decided to pretend to want his scritches just long enough for my fingers to get inside the cage, and then bite. Same thing with feeding him - I have to be pretty fast getting the bowl in the holder to keep from getting bitten.

I've pretty much turned his care over to my husband for the time being, and decided to try again with him once mating season is over and his behavior calms down. He's so great with my husband, I am so jealous!

On the up side, he hates me enough that he's relatively well behaved when my husband isn't here, but I don't trust him well enough to let him out of his cage until he gets home.

I try to stay out of the way and let them have their uncaged time, but if I even walk into the room Sucre gets very agitated and you can tell that if he could get to me, he would make it memorable.

Am I wrong in waiting it out and trying again in hopefully calmer months? I'm kinda tired of getting bitten.

I replied to a question you asked in another thread before I saw this one.

http://www.parrotforums.com/cockatoos/59850-cockatoo-biting-our-hands-feet.html

I want to join the others in telling you, you are not alone, life with a Too is a roller coaster ride, especially those that have a darker past. Toos are emotional, they usually arrive confused and angry with no reason to trust anyone. Toos bond deeply and in their own way they grieve even for those who have abused and neglected them. Those first months are filled with emotional moments, you'll laugh, cry, and bang your head against a wall. Remember, while you are studying Sucre, he is studying you. When you run completely out of new ideas and you're ready to run, there'll be a breakthrough.

Poppy came to me almost broken, we were her third home, she lost the first two for chronic screaming, her first owners loved her, they didn't know how to take care of her. We were suspicious of each other for months. I'll never forget the first breakthrough. She had been waving for me to pick her up, she was on her balcony, the balcony just above my eye level, she appeared agitated, I was avoiding contact, not wanting to get bit. I walked past her and she literally leaped off the balcony, if I hadn't caught her she would have hit the floor, I caught her in my arms and it was like holding a bunny, she snuggled under my chin, I never wanted that moment to end. From then on she was mine and I was hers. All moments and all journeys are unique and special. Toos make you work harder to earn those huge rewards.

Since Sucre is used to being a free range Too, he will need to learn to entertain himself. Parrot Toys aren't really all fun and games, they serve a valid purpose. It's easier to show you.



I made three of those before Poppy worked off most of her rage and started to see her cage as a happy place and her own. Instead of having complete freedom, Poppy was a little cagebound when she joined us, she was terrified to be taken away from her cage. She reduced the wood blocks to dust. Her other comfort toys are a swing and a couple of Fischer Price noise toys, her swing is her safe place, when I clean it, it MUST be returned before nightfall no matter what. She's changed a lot from the scared, angry bird she used to be, she's found more positive ways to express herself. She's replaced her chronic screams with playing her guitar and piano. I hear her pounding away when she can't see me.

I so hope this is the beginning of a long, happy journey for you and Sucre. Toos are very fickle, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if you become Sucre's new favorite.

Kim, my wife had almost the same problem as you. Our new Parrot bonded with me and my sons, but did not like her. She has been taking things very very slowly. The first two weeks she only sat at the side of the cage and talked to salty. The next step was to feed him his favorite treats thru the bars and only her feeding those treets. The next step was for her to offer the treats through an open door of the cage. The next step was for her to offer treats when Salty came to the front of the cage. She is on to next step now which is to let him step up on to her hand from the front of the cage. Absolutely no trying to scratch or pet, only stepping up and offering treats from her hand. She will probably be at that step for a while. But salty does not try to bite her anymore. Now salty associates my wife only good tasty treats. And that's what you want. if you only got your bird in January you may be rushing things too much. slow down and take things one step at a time and make sure that your parrot understands that the special tasty treats only come from you and your hands. She can empathize with your position, she loves salty and it hurts her feelings when she sees him playing with me and giving kisses and smooches, and all she got at first was bites. But now she has seen progress and she knows thzt while she will never be saltys favorite person, she will eventually be able to show her love for the little guy, too. Make sure your sessions with your bird are when you are alone with him, and give lots of verbal praises. Try to end each session on a positive note. And most of all be patient.

Sucre said:

This past week has definitely had it's ups and downs.

Sucre is not growing fonder of me. I have had only "in cage" interaction with him, and I thought it was going pretty good. He would come to the side of the cage for head scritches, and was always okay when I fed him. This week, he's decided to pretend to want his scritches just long enough for my fingers to get inside the cage, and then bite. Same thing with feeding him - I have to be pretty fast getting the bowl in the holder to keep from getting bitten.

I've pretty much turned his care over to my husband for the time being, and decided to try again with him once mating season is over and his behavior calms down. He's so great with my husband, I am so jealous!

On the up side, he hates me enough that he's relatively well behaved when my husband isn't here, but I don't trust him well enough to let him out of his cage until he gets home.

I try to stay out of the way and let them have their uncaged time, but if I even walk into the room Sucre gets very agitated and you can tell that if he could get to me, he would make it memorable.

Am I wrong in waiting it out and trying again in hopefully calmer months? I'm kinda tired of getting bitten.

Click to expand...

Hi I'm sorry that today was not a good Sucre day. It is probably going to be very slow progress on this birds terms and nobody is going to rush it. It feels like sometimes that they do their best to push you away - almost to the point of no more! It's test, test and more testing but hey you're bigger than a parrot right? Your husband is the chosen one (for now) and you have to prove yourself to be accepted. If you put all your eggs in one basket, the hormones basket, the expectation is biff baff bosh hey it's over and its lovely Sucre living here? Work slow, say hi Sucre in the morning, night night etc and if he wants contact during the day ie he calls you answer him. If he's good offer a treat. Use submissive soft eye contact with him as direct can be challenging. Get him to see you are no threat. Stay out of the way when he has hubby time, talk and work it out. After many years of having Plum he will still guard me when out of his cage with me and my hubby comes close and Plum loves him! He shows us the signs and it's best to heed them. Be patient, try and be happy it is a work in progress but goodness the results are wonderful. Parrots have an ability to read us and he will be doing just that with you. If you still want to give head scratches make him push his head right up to the bars and don't put fingers in the cage. It's a clever game! Really routing for you.

Thanks for all of the words of encouragement, everyone. I think the reason I am so disillusioned is because he was wonderful with me the first week or two.

I am always the one with the treats, I feel like I am doing everything that I've been advised to do, I guess I'm just in too much of a hurry.

Yesterday, he was so angry with me that everything I fed him went straight into the bottom of the cage with a slam. He wasn't just dropping it, he was throwing it down. My husband was working and it would have normally been a good day for me to work with him, but he got up on the wrong side of the bed and stayed that way all day.

Today, we're working on making him stay on top of his cage on his playground. If he starts down, either of us can say NO and he will give us an earful as he's climbing back up. He's so smart, he knows what we want, he just thinks he's more in charge than he is. We are going to a exotic animal expo next weekend in search for a larger cage and a stand that we can move from room to room. That's why we are working so hard on the "stay" command. I have two little dogs that he sometimes goes after, so free roam of the floor is not an option unless the dogs are crated.

The bad days tend to make you forget about the good parts. He will allow me in the room now when he's having his alone time with my husband. I make no effort to interact with him while they are screaming and singing and dancing. I more or less try to be invisible.

He seems reasonably happy, just demanding. Loudly demanding! It just kills me that we don't seem to be making any progress. And, he really doesn't seem to have a high value treat, as long as it's coming from me. He just throws it down.

This afternoon, I've got a zillion things to do, but I'm spending it making a nice swing for him. I just keep trying with him, and he keeps getting angrier at me. I'm just happy to have somewhere to vent.

He isn't going anywhere. We'll deal with it, no matter what. I am ordering some avicalm today, the vet had suggested us giving him a couple of months before medicating him - he was considering Haldol (an antipsychotic) but since we don't know how long it will take for the meth withdrawals to completely pass, I hate to put him on any heavy duty drugs just yet. It may come down to it, though, whether I like it or not. Medicating him is better than him winding up in another bad home.

Kim, you are really special for your indelible dedication to Sucre!

I too would hate using psychotropic drugs. Haldol is a really old medication, but have heard success stories following a short course of the drug. Deep bonding can occur while the bird is "under the influence".

Kim hang on in there you are doing great and if it's what you need vent away. I feel your pain and send a big hug for what you are doing, making him a swing, bless you. It's very early days. If it's any consolation I've had a c**p day with my RB2 and he loves me! Hang on in there, we are routing for you.

PS Have you tried the plug in pet calmers that are available? Has possibly worked on a stroppy RB2 I have to stay. Could be something, could be nothing but every little helps.

Thank you, Scott. Some days I feel as if I am banging my head against a brick wall. But I'm pretty determined, for Sucre and for my husband, to make this work. We have a mini zoo here, all of the animals are very strongly bonded to me. I have an abused terrier mix that we rescued 5 1/2 years ago and he bit my husband daily for the first 6 months we had him, and still will if I go to bed early and my husband walks into the dark bedroom unannounced! Our goofy lab is the only one who loves us both equally - everyone else clings to me. So, he (hubby) has fallen in love with Sucre, and the feeling is mutual. Our only choice is to keep trying. I can't break that up. My husband is as silly and off the wall as Sucre is, and it's hysterically entertaining to watch them together. I can live with it if Sucre never has a deep bond with me, just need to modify his behavior a bit as far as I am concerned.

I am home sick today, and he is on a tirade. Daddy was already gone to work when I uncovered him this morning, so that didn't start his day off too well - he seems very ritualistic - my husband usually uncovers him and feeds him first thing in the morning - he didn't today because he knew it was screech time, and I wouldn't be able to sleep in a bit. As soon as I put his fresh food and water bowls in, he threw them in the floor. (Got to figure out a way to stop that from being able to happen...) I should have known he was going to do it because as soon as I opened the food doors, he started trying to bite my fingers. I thumped him on the beak and said NO and he stopped. I say NO more these days than I did with both my kids combined growing up!

plumsmum, are you talking about a diffuser with essential oils, or something else? My daughter sells the oils and stuff, so I have easy access for that! I already sprinkle lavender oil on his cage cover, and sometimes I douse myself in Stress Away when he's having a really bad day!

You sure are determined, but Sucre is working from assumptions we can only guess and attempt to understand. I really believe you will prevail, even if it is just a truce that permits you to conduct "business" safely with Sucre. Perhaps a closer relationship will blossom - it could happen one day with a magnificent breakthrough, much as Allee related with her Poppy.

Sucre said:

Thank you, Scott. Some days I feel as if I am banging my head against a brick wall. But I'm pretty determined, for Sucre and for my husband, to make this work. We have a mini zoo here, all of the animals are very strongly bonded to me. I have an abused terrier mix that we rescued 5 1/2 years ago and he bit my husband daily for the first 6 months we had him, and still will if I go to bed early and my husband walks into the dark bedroom unannounced! Our goofy lab is the only one who loves us both equally - everyone else clings to me. So, he (hubby) has fallen in love with Sucre, and the feeling is mutual. Our only choice is to keep trying. I can't break that up. My husband is as silly and off the wall as Sucre is, and it's hysterically entertaining to watch them together. I can live with it if Sucre never has a deep bond with me, just need to modify his behavior a bit as far as I am concerned.

I am home sick today, and he is on a tirade. Daddy was already gone to work when I uncovered him this morning, so that didn't start his day off too well - he seems very ritualistic - my husband usually uncovers him and feeds him first thing in the morning - he didn't today because he knew it was screech time, and I wouldn't be able to sleep in a bit. As soon as I put his fresh food and water bowls in, he threw them in the floor. (Got to figure out a way to stop that from being able to happen...) I should have known he was going to do it because as soon as I opened the food doors, he started trying to bite my fingers. I thumped him on the beak and said NO and he stopped. I say NO more these days than I did with both my kids combined growing up!

plumsmum, are you talking about a diffuser with essential oils, or something else? My daughter sells the oils and stuff, so I have easy access for that! I already sprinkle lavender oil on his cage cover, and sometimes I douse myself in Stress Away when he's having a really bad day!

Click to expand...

Hi Kim, my word I admire you, you're fantastic. I love to read your tales of Sucre and always routing for you. I think you will get the acceptance you crave but you are going to have to work for it. It will be so much sweeter though, just hang on in there. The Plug in Calmer is a general pet one (cats etc) I think, so should be available from pet stores? Has a unique smell but you get used to it. The words "no" and "behave" in a stern tone works fine. Have you tried distraction, get him to one part of cage for treat furthest away from door to give you a chance re biting you? Enclose link FYI :-

https://petremedyusa.com/

Hey Kim. I happened to see a post on another forum from you.
Sounds like it's been rough and I don't think anyone blames you for being miserable.

I think cockatoos are just tough "pets"...