One week down! Cage setup, and diet.

mypinklove · Apr 21, 2016

Good evening everybody, this'll be my second thread so far. If you don't know me I made an intro to myself and my new Galah in the New Members section.

It's been one week since I adopted my 13 year old birdie and renamed him Pablo. He is an absolute blast and a huge handful lol. I'm already learning so much and I'm super excited that I get to be owned by this little guy for the rest of his life. I feel like we are bonding and training him is the highlight of my day.
Anyways I decided to make another thread to post a few pics of his setup and maybe get some thoughts on it. I cleaned his cage and toys today and all his stuff isn't in there in these pics - a few things were out drying in the sun.
Also if anybody has any solid diet advice too, that would be appreciated. Tomorrow I'm scrapping the veggie and spinach blend I made for him last week and will make a new veggie chop for his dinners that maybe he will enjoy more and has less spinach in it. What I'm trying to do right now is feed him his fruity blends zupreem pellets for breakfast, use them as training treats after work, and give him a veggie chop for dinner. I've also been feeding him a few almond slices when I put him in his cage at night.

Per the advice in Michael Sahzin's book, I've been measuring out exactly how much he is eating of his breakfast and his dinner so that I know exactly how much to give, and nothing goes to waste.

http://www.parrotforums.com/members/mypinklove-albums-pablo-picture16344-img-3071.jpg

http://www.parrotforums.com/members/mypinklove-albums-pablo-picture16343-img-3074.jpg

http://www.parrotforums.com/members/mypinklove-albums-pablo-picture16347-img-3068.jpg

http://www.parrotforums.com/members/mypinklove-albums-pablo-picture16346-img-3046.jpg

Why are they coming out sideways?? So weird... Sorry guys

~ Mae and Pablo <3

JerseyWendy · Apr 22, 2016

Mae, I don't know how to say this in any other way, but PLEASE toss the book.

It is NOT necessary to measure Pablo's food. ALL parrots waste some. Many play with their foods, too. Of course I understand that it may seem 'wasteful' to some people to clean off uneaten bird food off the ground (or walls), however, we are still talking fairly small amounts of 'waste'.

IMHO parrots should NEVER be so hungry that they devour every single morsel. Even in the wild they can forage to their hearts content.

As for the photos coming out sideways, many of us use Photobucket, and it gives you the opportunity to straighten photos out.

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

JerseyWendy said:
Mae, I don't know how to say this in any other way, but PLEASE toss the book.

It is NOT necessary to measure Pablo's food. ALL parrots waste some. Many play with their foods, too. Of course I understand that it may seem 'wasteful' to some people to clean off uneaten bird food off the ground (or walls), however, we are still talking fairly small amounts of 'waste'.

IMHO parrots should NEVER be so hungry that they devour every single morsel. Even in the wild they can forage to their hearts content.

As for the photos coming out sideways, many of us use Photobucket, and it gives you the opportunity to straighten photos out.

Alright I hear you, and I'll think about that and look into it more.

The reasoning is that it helps control his weight and makes sure he is food motivated for training.. I definitely am not trying to starve my bird and I'm listening to what you're saying. Just want the best for him, and still be able to effectively train him.
Thank you for the insight.

Christinenc2000 · Apr 22, 2016

Wait you spent money on the book so don't just trash it .

You can always drill a hole in it . Hang it in your birds cage. He will have a new shredding toy. You will get a lot more use out of it.

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

Christinenc2000 said:
Wait you spent money on the book so don't just trash it .

You can always drill a hole in it . Hang it in your birds cage. He will have a new shredding toy. You will get a lot more use out of it.

oh man it's that bad?? That sucks because I thought he had a lot of good advice.

It's got a lot of good info on clicker training and touch training in it too... Is that also bad? Please explain your reasoning to me so I can do the best thing for my bird.

thanks x

Allee · Apr 22, 2016

Mae, your Pablo is adorable! Very nice cage and set up, you should enter it in this month's POTM contest, the theme is cage set ups and this month all contestants have three chances to win.

http://www.parrotforums.com/photo-month-contest/60881-april-potm-contest-new-post.html

Please take JerseyWendy/Wendy's excellent advice and toss the book. Toos are ground nesters, they pick through their food, play with their food, decorate with their food, tuck their food into their feathers and occasionally expect you to wear some of their food. This is natural behavior, as Wendy mentioned, even a lot of waste is still minimal. We have an excellent diet section with wonderful recipes for chop, birdie bread, basic diet, species specific diets, you name it, it's there.

Here are a couple of great links to give you a better starting point.

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/28242-ingredients-pellets.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

Best of luck with your new companion. Please continue to share his progress.

JerseyWendy · Apr 22, 2016

Many (if not most) of us are all BUT fans of the (self proclaimed) Parrot Wizard, Mae.

There are FAR better teachers/training techniques out there. Barbara Heidenreich is one of them. Here, please have a look at this thread: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/60435-clicker-target-training.html

There is currently a sizzling hot video of Michael discussed right here: http://www.parrotforums.com/questions-answers/61368-handling-bird-neck.html

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

Allee said:
Mae, your Pablo is adorable! Very nice cage and set up, you should enter it in this month's POTM contest, the theme is cage set ups and this month all contestants have three chances to win.

http://www.parrotforums.com/photo-month-contest/60881-april-potm-contest-new-post.html

Please take JerseyWendy/Wendy's excellent advice and toss the book. Toos are ground nesters, they pick through their food, play with their food, decorate with their food, tuck their food into their feathers and occasionally expect you to wear some of their food. This is natural behavior, as Wendy mentioned, even a lot of waste is still minimal. We have an excellent diet section with wonderful recipes for chop, birdie bread, basic diet, species specific diets, you name it, it's there.

Here are a couple of great links to give you a better starting point.

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/28242-ingredients-pellets.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

Best of luck with your new companion. Please continue to share his progress.

Why thank you so much!

Okay so now I've got three people who know what they're doing telling me to not listen to the diet section of this book.. I think I should listen lol.

Your reasoning sounds 100% healthy and natural for him and so that's what I would like to do. I'll check out those links in a bit. Looking forward to making him some new chop tonight based on the diet section!

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

JerseyWendy said:
Many (if not most) of us are all BUT fans of the (self proclaimed) Parrot Wizard, Mae.

There are FAR better teachers/training techniques out there. Barbara Heidenreich is one of them. Here, please have a look at this thread: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/60435-clicker-target-training.html

There is currently a sizzling hot video of Michael discussed right here: http://www.parrotforums.com/questions-answers/61368-handling-bird-neck.html

Noted.

Thank you for your honesty. I'll check those links out when I get to a computer and can see it on a big screen! x

Christinenc2000 · Apr 22, 2016

He took what others taught him and made it his own. A lot do that. He put up some Youtube videos created a blog using what OTHERS taught him and he named himself a Wizard. He married and has since changed some. At least he is out of that childish wizard costume.

Kiwibird · Apr 22, 2016

I portion my birds food, not to motivate him to train though (he cannot be trusted to eat enough fruit and veg

and I need to be able to monitor). But I *NEVER* underfeed him, ever. He gets enough to maintain a consistently healthy and normal weight and usually even has some leftovers after he's finished. Since you are brand new to bird keeping, I would suggest you talk with your avian vet about diet and do more in-deth research into the pros and cons of free-feeding VS portioned feeding (and the dangers of starvation diets). I've tossed around the idea of a training diet, but I just cannot bring myself to allow my bird to go hungry in order to force him to learn. If your child is doing bad in math, you don't start giving the a slice of bread and a piece of celery for dinner with promises of cookies if they do better in math. That's not the right way to encourage a child, and a parrot basically has the brain of a small child.

As for the training portion of the book, your bird will still be able to learn the tricks without underfeeding him and I think Michael has relatable information for the new bird owner on the process of clicker training. Birds are pigs with wings, and will still go nuts for a treat, even after they ate a healthy portion for breakfast or dinner

. You can also do training sessions pre-meal so your bird is hungry, but will still get a full meal after the session.

I would not get too hung up on trick training though. Some birds love it, others don't. Your bird is a companion and a sentient being. If he/she shows no interest or propensity towards tricks, don't push it. So long as they know the basics (step up, bite pressure, toweling etc...), let them kind of lead how the rest of your interactions will go. My zon is VERY smart and I'm certain could do all kinds of funny, cute and amazing "tricks" if I forced him, but I wait for him to be in the right mood and has to WANT to focus on trick training. I could pressured him to learn faster, but I think it would have affected our trusting bond. It is always fun though when he's being super curious and I bring out the shape puzzles and color/shape chips to do a little interactive training. And he IS learning, slowly but he's getting it (and on HIS terms). That's a much better way to approach things. Don't hold a bird to too high of standards, because if the bird doesn't reach them you may be so disappointed you fail to see other amazing things they do that are unique and special too.

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

Christine: Good to know, thank you for educating me.
Kiwibird: Wow thanks for all the useful information! Just for clarification, I'm not 100% new to bird keeping. For 17 years I lived in a home with cockatiels and budgies and did a lot of research growing up on them. But yes I'm still very new to being the primary caretaker of a medium sized bird so all advice is greatly appreciated.

I hear you about the training diet thing. What I was doing though is not starving him for training but rather giving him a portioned breakfast and dinner rather than having food constantly available, so that he would be eager to take food for training. I will adjust my method of feeding him to go with all of your recommendations but I'm just letting you know that was not my mindset at all. If we did not train, I would be giving him the exact same amount of food and treats as if we did.

Pre-dinner is when I try to do some clicker training.
Also I'm not trying to teach him a bunch of tricks, more just using training as a way to stimulate his super active mind, channel his energy, bond, and make handling easier. I'd like to flight train, recall train, and have him touch trained. Tricks would be cool but I'm waiting until we have all the basics and a good trusting relationship before I start asking for tricks.

I mostly just want us to have a great relationship, and for him to be happy and have fun. Which so far we are achieving nicely I think.
Thanks for all your input, and I'm especially taking note of not rushing things and letting him set the pace. I like that bit at the end where you remind me not to hold him to too high of standards... We have years together so there's no rush.
I love this bird.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anansi · Apr 22, 2016

You sound like you'll make a great parront for your bird. Your mindset is just right.

It's not that the Parrot Wizard is the personification of all things wrong with parrot keeping. He's just irresponsible with some of the things he puts out there, and downright wrong with some others.

You'd asked about his touch and clicker training. I think they're fine. The techniques aren't his, mind you. They've been around for years. But he explains them adequately.

As for the portion feeding bit, that's not a problem in and of itself. After all, I don't free feed, either. But it's the degree to which he takes it that is a problem. Such strict food management is just too much. And unlike you, he does it for training purposes.

A little story to illustrate what I mean. One night my family and I had gotten caught in some terrible traffic. So we got home maybe 3 hours or so later than what their usual dinner time would've been. So they were HUNGRY!

At the time, my Bixby was still alive. And he was particularly ravenous. (Maya never lets her hunger show. She's straight diva, through and through. Lol!) So I let them out and Bixby flew immediately to my shoulder. Now, I'd used up the last of their chop that morning, so I had to do some quick prep. (My wife claims that my chop prep is anything but quick, but I digress...)

To hold them while I prepped, I got out some pomegranates so that they could nibble on them one at a time. But Bixby's hungry dance on my shoulder was slowing me down. So I just glanced over at his perch and said, "go to perch." I wasn't expecting much, as he was much better about coming to me than leaving. So I'd usually have to tell him a few times. But the words had barely left my mouth before he was streaking over to his stand.

"Huh?!?"

I was caught off guard. But then I tried another command. And immediate compliance! Not only that, but I didn't even have to gesture. He was going by voice command! Without hesitation. Turned out, he was FAR smarter than I'd realized.

And suddenly I'd realized the allure behind keeping one's bird consistently on the edge of true hunger.

So what was the problem? It was that edge of desperation in everything he did for my approval. And it's something I'd seen in some of those Parrot Wizard videos. And I knew, with utter certainty, that was just something I'd never do to my birds.

I want them to enjoy our training sessions. And when I achieve immediacy of response, I want to know I managed to do so through the deepening of my bond with them. Not because they were desperate for their next meal. Know what I mean?

It may take longer, but it's far more rewarding. And if makes for a better relationship with your flock.

So I don't measure out portions weighed to the smallest fractions of grams. Their breakfast and dinner portions are enough to truly fill them. I want them content and happy. Seeing that desperation is just not a worthwhile tradeoff for speed and ease of training.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

cottontiel · Apr 22, 2016

What a beautiful birdie! And he has such a nice cage, I like how the colour of the cage matches him.

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

cottontiel said:
What a beautiful birdie! And he has such a nice cage, I like how the colour of the cage matches him.

I saw this video by the Parrot Wizard. At about 2 minutes in, he gives his bird their portion of pellets... I was like ??? Where's the rest of it? Such a large dish for next to nothing being put in it! I'm hoping that's just the morning portion, and not a whole day's worth. :s

Kili Senegal Parrot - Flighted Potty Trained Parrot Going About Daily Business - YouTube

Thank you so much!!

<3

And that is the morning portion.

mypinklove · Apr 22, 2016

Anansi said:
You sound like you'll make a great parront for your bird. Your mindset is just right.

It's not that the Parrot Wizard is the personification of all things wrong with parrot keeping. He's just irresponsible with some of the things he puts out there, and downright wrong with some others.

You'd asked about his touch and clicker training. I think they're fine. The techniques aren't his, mind you. They've been around for years. But he explains them adequately.

As for the portion feeding bit, that's not a problem in and of itself. After all, I don't free feed, either. But it's the degree to which he takes it that is a problem. Such strict food management is just too much. And unlike you, he does it for training purposes.

A little story to illustrate what I mean. One night my family and I had gotten caught in some terrible traffic. So we got home maybe 3 hours or so later than what their usual dinner time would've been. So they were HUNGRY!

At the time, my Bixby was still alive. And he was particularly ravenous. (Maya never lets her hunger show. She's straight diva, through and through. Lol!) So I let them out and Bixby flew immediately to my shoulder. Now, I'd used up the last of their chop that morning, so I had to do some quick prep. (My wife claims that my chop prep is anything but quick, but I digress...)

To hold them while I prepped, I got out some pomegranates so that they could nibble on them one at a time. But Bixby's hungry dance on my shoulder was slowing me down. So I just glanced over at his perch and said, "go to perch." I wasn't expecting much, as he was much better about coming to me than leaving. So I'd usually have to tell him a few times. But the words had barely left my mouth before he was streaking over to his stand.

"Huh?!?"

I was caught off guard. But then I tried another command. And immediate compliance! Not only that, but I didn't even have to gesture. He was going by voice command! Without hesitation. Turned out, he was FAR smarter than I'd realized.

And suddenly I'd realized the allure behind keeping one's bird consistently on the edge of true hunger.

So what was the problem? It was that edge of desperation in everything he did for my approval. And it's something I'd seen in some of those Parrot Wizard videos. And I knew, with utter certainty, that was just something I'd never do to my birds.

I want them to enjoy our training sessions. And when I achieve immediacy of response, I want to know I managed to do so through the deepening of my bond with them. Not because they were desperate for their next meal. Know what I mean?

It may take longer, but it's far more rewarding. And if makes for a better relationship with your flock.

So I don't measure out portions weighed to the smallest fractions of grams. Their breakfast and dinner portions are enough to truly fill them. I want them content and happy. Seeing that desperation is just not a worthwhile tradeoff for speed and ease of training.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Thank you, I appreciate it.
Very good insight and thank you for your personal experience. I don't want my bird on that edge of desperate hunger when I'm training either.

Scott · Apr 23, 2016

Christinenc2000 said:
He put up some Youtube videos created a blog using what OTHERS taught him and he named himself a Wizard. He married and has since changed some. At least he is out of that childish wizard costume.

Indeed, like a 14th Century court jester!

mypinklove · Apr 23, 2016

cottontiel said:
What a beautiful birdie! And he has such a nice cage, I like how the colour of the cage matches him.

Thank you so much!!

<3

Scott · Apr 23, 2016

While the use of a special food during training may be beneficial, my POV on diet is basic. Our parrots lose many inherent freedoms in captivity, try as we may to enrich their experiences. The very least we can do is provide the most healthy nutrition possible, a clean, spacious, and stimulating environment, and safety from inherent household and occupant hazards. Parrots are gleeful wasters, but I never ration their food!

One week down! Cage setup, and diet.

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Little baby galah

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