4 Month Old Congo Help!

Sometime reader and first time poster.

My name is Drew. I've always had a fascination with parrots, since I've been friends with people over the years who've had them. After buying a house and completing renovations, I decided the time was right. In the beginning of March, Hector, a 7 week old Ekkie came into mine and my girlfriends life. We only had intentions of 1 bird but 2 weeks following that, 2 - 4 week old Greys arrived at the Parrot store. For my girlfriend, it was love at first sight... on her part and on the part of one particular little baby Congo Grey who took right to her. We had the money and the space and said "What the heck" So, baby Leo came to be. At first it was Cleo because he had all of the signs of being female but DNA doesn't lie and we chopped the "C" from that.

For weeks, I vigilantly went to visit both of them 5-6 days out of the week. The perks of being self employed are that I can take a 2 hour lunch! . Hector has grown into a very mellow easy going young Ekkie and has been here at home a week now. Leo on the other hand has been a different story. I've done a lot of research into Greys. We both have read books and talked to several people on the subject. We knew to expect a bit of nervous behavior that Greys are known for. What we weren't expecting is a bird that is still to this day extremely difficult to handle. He is about a month shy of being fully weened and we aren't so sure this bird is nearly ready on the behavior side of things to come live in our house. I'm barely able to handle him, as I've been with him the most. Most days, he'll draw blood or come close to doing that. My girlfriend, who was only able to go twice weekly, cannot handle this bird at all. He bites and he bites to injure her. Some days he can be really sweet with me but that is not all that often.

One of the factors I'm concerned about is his being raised without a clutchmate. His brother was taken home by someone who chose to handfeed on their own the day after we bought Leo. Leo was alone in his cage from that time on. I know it's important for birds to have a clutchmate. I'm curious if that is playing a role in his behavior.

My girlfriends heart is broken with all that has transpired. Work kept me away from the Parrot store for 2 days. I went today and he was a terror. I couldn't even handle him at all. He wanted to come to me but when he did, it was a lot of fierce bites. He drew blood on one and left several pretty good marks on the others. I'm pretty heartbroken myself. I've been trying to spend a lot of time with him but it doesn't seem to make things get better.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated!

Unfortunatly this isn't a really good way to start a relationship. There was a post not too long ago by someone who's conur would bite when they first met, and it was a rough and ugly relationship since.

I would speak to the store owners about it, and ask if they can change your deposit to another baby CAG if there is one available. If there isn't one available, perhaps they can hold your deposit for the next clutch?

While baby birds can be trained not to be bity, the fact that this is all he does to both of you is a bad sign.

Is he getting enough to eat? Greybeard has been real aggressive a couple of times recently, and we found he was really hungry. After eating, he was his old cool self.

He's the one in the foreground. The one in back is a 19 y.o. rehome.

First kudos to you for not bringing home an unweaned baby! So many things can go wrong.
I agree that this baby's behavior is not normal for his age. While being forced weaned could have caused this it also could just be who he is, sadly. He may change once you get him home but it will take some work and patience. I bred greys for 15 yrs and on the rare occasion that I had a baby like this it took a lot of time to change this behavior.
IMHO, I would get my money back if possible and buy elsewhere. If they refuse tell them you want another baby from a different clutch. It sounds like the baby might not be getting the required attention needed. And again, I question if the force weaned him.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

A couple of things.

1) He wasn't force weened. He's down to 1 feeding a day now.... 15-20 ml. The rest he is eating on his own and he's been allowed to go at his own pace.

2) He always seems to have plenty of food available in his cage. His weight has been running about 400g...which as been pretty level for a bit now...a few weeks at least.

A question.... was his losing his clutchmate so early part of the reason for this behavior?

I'm really at odds here. When I give my word (to human or animal), I keep it. After spending so much time with this bird, I feel an obligation to see it through. However, this is a decades long commitment and in talking with my GF today, she made the point that we need to make a choice that is best for us and the rest of the animals in our house.

I can't get my money back or transfer it to another bird. They have very strict rules about that. Had I been more educated on the subject, I would have gotten this bird from somewhere that the policies were different in that respect. I just never figured we'd end up with a problem bird of sorts.

My only recourse in the matter is to not take the bird home until they have worked with him enough to modify these behavior issues. It's either that or surrender him and lose my money completely. Terrible choices either way.

bad bird store not at all fair I've posted before that I've seen a bird that takes an instance dislike to someone and it never changes I've also seen birds that everyone swears is evil walk right up to someone and fall over in complete love with a stranger.
1st Question does the bird respond to the people at the pet store? I mean nicely?
2nd question what kind of training are they offering? just more of what they've already done? As a baby you should be looking at a bird who is trying to please everyone who moves slowly and is trying to interact with it.
3rd question and I know I'll get slammed for this, will the store take the bird back on consignment for resale? I know it's terrible to consider but it would be better than both you and the bird being in a bad relationship that would be the most unhealthy thing I can think of. Oh and I'd find another bird store which might consider that kind of deal for your promise of buying one of their birds.

Interesting. I have an almost 7 month old (11/29/11 hatch date)CAG "Greycie", DNA female. I brought her home at age 4 months, fully weaned. I too visited often before I brought her home. She was also very nippy and would bite. A lady was there quite often as well visiting her CAG that she was going to bring home once weaned. Her grey would bite her and draw blood!!! I was shocked. I thought hand raised/fed baby parrots were suppose to be use to humans. Anyway, she visited her baby more than I. But when we happen to be at the pet store at the same time she would always have bloody battle scars. I mostly sat near my baby while she was on a perch and talked to her, occasionally petting her if she allowed it. I'm not in favor of getting bit up like that lady did! But I will say towards the last weeks of visiting my baby you could notice a remarkable improvement in her behavior and "that lady's" baby too. She could now handle hers without getting bit. I could too but not as well as her. Our birds constantly would jump from our fingers and unfortunately their wings were clipped. Store policy! My whole point to this novel is........I was skeptical too. My baby was nippy and bitey! BUT when I took her home.....besides her "freaking out" with her new cage ( that's another story) she was a different bird!! I kid you not! I could actually handle her WITHOUT getting as much as a nip!! She nibbles but NEVER has bitten me since I got her home. I was prepared for some intense training to stop her biting. She is growing into a beautiful, intelligent parrot, that they're known to be.
Since you can't get your money back, take your baby home and see what happens. She's so young I would think any behavior could be modified if not eliminated all together.
Oh and by the way the pet store owners and workers could handle the babies without getting bit. So I knew it was possible!!
Good luck with your new baby and let us know how it goes once you get her/him.
Alan.

First of congrats on the Eckie... the males are a little more laid back than the female Eckies.

On the Gray... I do not know a lot about them but It does take a lot of patience with a young weaned bird, Abby was 5 month old when I got her and it took several weeks for her not to be nippy and draw blood.

Where do you live, you might check with other store or local breeders to see if anyone offers classes for training.

Good luck

Ok,
I am going to get SLAMMED for this but here is my two cents. I do believe in finishing the weaning process with babies. I have done alot of research on the subject and I feel that the outcome (when trained properly) is a positive one. I would not do it until the bird is on only two feedings a day (or one) however I feel that it does help in the bonding process. I feed by using a paper cup and creasing a side so that the bird in essence eats out of the cup and is able to taste the food and also controls the speed in which the food is eaten. I can quote alot of experts that share this same belief however I know that many do not agree with this way of thinking. I have a CAG that will be 1 next month, I did finish the weaning process with her. I brought her home at two feedings, she has never bitten me, ever! I am not saying that it is all a result of my weaning her much is probably her personality however she trusts me, she loves me and she tries very hard to please me. This said, I feel horrible that this bird store is not allowing you to transfer your deposit to another bird. It should be such an exciting and fun experience to bring home your new baby.
If it were me and they absolutley would not allow me to change birds and you have decided that you are indeed going to take this one home then I would learn how to feed your baby, bring it home now and try to spend lots of time with it. I would feed it, there is a level of trust that is built up when your are feeding your baby its formula. They do learn to depend and trust you this way. Now that I have said this, only do this if you feel confident doing it. It really isn't hard to do and if you have knowledgeable breeders teaching you (I really think using the cup and not a syringe is the safest way!)
Ok, this was my two cents and I truly hope that people are not going to slam me too badly. This has been my experience, I have read and talked to many about it and it is the choice that I have made.

Brianlinkles, I couldn't disagree more! Furthermore carelessly posting that it is easy and someone without experience is irresponsible. Sorry to be so harsh, but I bred birds for 15 yrs and have owned them for 30. I cannot tell you how many illnesses and deaths I hear about.
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/19049-hazards-buying-unweaned-baby.html

As I said, I knew I would get slammed and slammed I did. Greycloud I think I stated to only do this if you feel confident and learning to do this from a good breeder or vet. I would not ever do this with a syringe method as I do feel that there is more danger in this method. I also do not suggest this lightly as I have weighed the pros and cons. I have never posted about this here because I knew that I would get slammed however I also think that there are always two sides. Yes, I did lots and lots of research on the subject spoke to breeders and vets and took several weeks to learn the proper technique this said I have had a wonderful outcome as have many others that I have spoken to. Forums are here to share ideas, help etc. Not to slam anyone that doesn't have the same opinion as you may have. I am not posting this lightly nor do I think that my post suggests this. I have quielty sat by and read many posts about problems that others have had bringing home their weaned babies even though they have visited them many times. I didn't jump on anyone saying that my way is the best in fact I have said nothing. I realize that it is safer to say "bring home a weaned baby" however if you yourself were a breeder and weaned your babies why do you feel that people who are invested in their own birds and want only the best for them are not able to do exactly what you did? Meaning if you could hand feed them then why wouldn't someone who took the proper time and who has a vested interest in the baby be able to do exactly the same thing? I didn't just haphazardly bring home a baby bird and by trial and error learn how to feed it. I researched learned and brought it home when I and the breeder were confident in my technique. Isn't that how you learned?

I dont think Greycloud slammed you or was rude in anyway. Actually it looks more like your looking to pick the fight. Simply stated she has been doing this for a long time and it's not easy and something for a beginning bird owner. As someone who frequents this forum quite often the main purpose here is to offer advice and help to educate others. Reread this entire thread....while your opinion is finishing the weaning process was easy for you it is Greyclouds that it is not easy. I can tell you I can't wait to bring my baby G2 home and I am a mom who thinks I can probably undertake finishing the weaning process too....but i will tell you long time breeders that I have researched that are reputable all come back with the same advice as Greycloud made here. So does my Avian Vet...number one reason baby birds end up with behavior issues is because they were not properly weaned! I'm sure if you do your research and google that you will see that tons of experts, avian vets share that same opinion. I think the message Graycloud was trying to convey to this poster was your bird is exhibiting behavior issues at an early age, which isn't normal behavior and is a big indicator that this bird may not be of companion/pet quality. Doesn't mean without time and patience he won't get on the right track but it will take work and possibly this could just be this birds individual personality so if you can opt out to prevent a rehome situation that might be your best bet. Especially if you don't have previous parrot experience. Grays in general are a highly intelligent species of Bird....they require a lot more patience and work. A problem Gray is all that much more difficult.

I'm sorry to hear that your grey isn't taking to you. Aggressive behavior from an unweaned baby, regardless of the species, is not normal. It is either learned or the baby is terrified and is fearing for his life...I would question the store he is in...How is he with the employees? Are they handling him properly You are seeing him on a regular basis so he should be getting used to you. I would seriously try to get your money back or switch babies. From my experience, birds that are this frightened and aggressive from such a young age are very hard to tame, as this is their personality that is coming out...Good luck...I hope all turns out ok.

I absolutley agree that this is not normal behavior for a young grey and feel that it is unfortunate that this breeder is not allowing them to choose a different grey. I think I stated this, I just said that if they were determined to bring this particular bird home then that was my advice. I do disagree that I was trying to start an argument and I am sorry that you took it that way. I also feel that this bird may be very difficult to turn into a good companion and it may indeed be a no win situation. I just stated that if this is what they were going to do then I had a piece of advice. I really am not here to try and "convert" anyone I was just stating what worked for me. I also did lots of research and spoke with many people (vets and respected breeders) and this was the decision I made.

No worries it's all good....things can be misinterpreted it's the problem with emails and texts and blogs. Thanks for your note, and likewise would never want to offend anyone either. We are Bird-People, we should all be used to a couple nips and bites here and there ....

by the way giosmom, when are you getting your goffin? There is a baby at my breeders, I just wish he would get sold already so I wouldn't be so tempted! LOL I would like a goffin or a bare eyed very much. I already have Dorothy my cag and Kiwi my amazon along with my daughters two cockateils. I feel like I shouldn't add another bird to our home however it sure is tempting! Would love to see pictures!

August 1st is the target date but.....you know birds! It's all up to the baby and weaning process. Right now he is down to one feeding a day and is eating pellets. He was moved to a big cage because he was climbing everywhere but had to go back to the box...he isn't quite ready yet for the big cage. So here I wait....watching and listening to everyone else. I live in South Florida and visit an amazing Birdstore near me and hang with the fids and get my temporary fix. Not to mention I'm a hit with all the wild birds by the pool...we share croissants and corn muffins on the weekend. The other day was hysterical. It was like a scene from Alfred Hitchcocks movie The Birds. They were all waiting for me to bring Gio to the pool with my coffee and breakfast for our morning swim. Ahhhh! I know about temptation all too well. I love Goffins! I say go for it! But I'm such a bad influence. My husband is afraid I'm going to turn the house into a zoo! If it weren't for him keeping me in line I would have like 4 dogs 6 birds 3 horses...I have the names already picked out! Loon that I am!

Brianlinkies if you get a Goffin before I do I'm going to SCREAMMMM! Everyone is getting their babies before me, it's not fair!! I really can't wait!! I'm SO Excited!

Giosmom my husband also tries and keep me in line. I grew up having horses however I have had a couple surgeries on my back and I am afraid to tempt fate. However I do have much more room for more birds! This said I am afraid to become a "crazy bird lady" as that is already what I think I'm known for! LOL I always say that maybe one more. I love the cockatoos however I don't think a large too is for me. My husband works alot out of the house and I worry about his tolerance for noise. I also have two youngish girls (12 & 14) so I would like a bird that would fit in well. I have a top three or four that I would love and have to narrow it down to the final choice. Goffins & bare eyed are in that list. Is yours a male or a female? (name could go either way I think?)

I went to the bird show in sarasota,fla a couple of weeks ago and at one of the stands they had 2 young goffins who were adorable and very tame. I did not dare ask the price but I can see why you both want one, they were so cute and soft looking with big round innocent looking eyes and I was thinking they could never possibly do anything wrong. Let me knoe in a couple of years if my impressions are right. please Alison and sweetie pie