Can someone or all help?

Hi
Thank you for any help and/or support.

I homed a CAG years ago before my children. Then came the children and not much time left over. We had to re-home her. Now my children are grown and I am soon to complete my college degree. My gift to myself is another CAG. I can't wait and I have been researching obsessively. I want the best home for the new addition. Anyway, I want a breeder near my home so that I can visit and form a relationship early on. I have found a few on Craigs list. I have emailed them and have received a few responses. One in particular sounded good but then I found another who seemed to sound better. He had offered to teach me how to handfeed so that we could bond. The first one near my home didn't offer that at all....and I was a little nervous going to that persons home alone. I also offered to volunteer with them so that I could learn more.
Okay, so then I find out that the two breeders near my home who had different ads...actually were the same person (or I received emails back from the same person). My question is how do I know that I am dealing with a reputable breeder? Are there certain questions I should make sure I ask? Would any of you offer to inquire about these birds to that breeder to see if I am on the right track? For all I know he is a good person with a good qualitry bird but I don't know.
I also have thought of rescue but there aren't any rescues close enough to my home and I think I would rather a baby for now and then think about rescue for my second. I found a woman not too far who has a pair that she is selling. Is this too much to take on at first? Is a pair better for them? I really really want to do it right this time and from the beginning so any help would be so appreciated. Thanks for your support.

Me

personally I think a pair would be too much. As for finding out if this breeder is good, go visit his/her house and see how the babies are being taken care of, check the cleanliness, etc

Steer clear of any breeder that wants to sell you an unweaned baby! These people are in it for the money only.
I would get more info on the pair and visit. If they are extremely bonded with each other you may have difficulty trying to work with them. It does not mean it is impossible though. I have fostered and rehomed pairs before and they were fine.
Where are you located?

greycloud said:

Steer clear of any breeder that wants to sell you an unweaned baby! These people are in it for the money only.
I would get more info on the pair and visit. If they are extremely bonded with each other you may have difficulty trying to work with them. It does not mean it is impossible though. I have fostered and rehomed pairs before and they were fine.
Where are you located?

Click to expand...

I was about the post the same myself! Any breeder that sells an unweaned baby or "offers to teach and let you bond" is a breeder to be wary of. While they can bond with you when young, there is nothing to say that it won't bond with you when they are older. There are plenty of people out there who have rescued older birds (5, 10, 15, even 30 years old!) that have formed wonderful and loving bonds with their feathered companions.

My personal experience is to avoid online ads, like craigslist and the like as there are too many scammers out there. (See post on this forum about the scammer site "congo-african-grey"). You'd be MUCH better off contacting your local bird rescue centre or avian club.

A rescue center can match you up with a bird, and getting an adult, you will KNOW the behavioural issues before you bring it home. Avian clubs on the other hand can put you in touch with reputable breeders. You could try something like a Parrot Society (we have one in Australia), and they keep a list of breeders and classifieds through their member site. Worth a shot.

If a person is double posting ads on the same site, it smells fishy. Even worse when offering to teach someone to "wean/handfeed" a baby[1].

[1] Too many risks, you have crop burns, sour crop, bacterial infections, weight management, starvation, malnutrition, pulmonary aspiration, etc. The list goes on.

See below on articles:

Liz Wilson said:

In the 20 years I worked with avian veterinarians, I have seen over and over how easy it is for an inexperienced hand feeder to do serious physical and psychological damage to an un-weaned parrot chick -- indeed, many parrot babies do not survive the human's learning process. From my experience, these helpless babies most frequently die due to one or more of the following causes: starvation, aspiration pneumonia, crop burns, and bacterial and/ or fungal infections. [...]
IF they survive, the long term repercussions include both chronic physical problems and some very serious psychological problems that could destroy their future potential as pets.

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http://www.parrottalk.com/hand-feeding-dangers.htm

ParrotParrot said:

Many people have heard the myth: if you want a parrot to truly bond to you, then you should handfeed the bird yourself. Nothing could be further from the truth. More relationships between bird and human are damaged by improper hand-feeding and socialization during the early weeks of a parrot’s life. This damage is less obvious than that seen in cases of outright physical harm. Burned crops, malnutrition, pneumonia due to aspirated food, sour crop, and bacterial infections are just a few of the issues that arise when inexperienced people take on the responsibility of handfeeding a parrot.

Responsible and reputable breeders will tell you unequivocally that parrots can bond to you just as well (if not better!) if you allow the experienced handfeeder to properly care for your bird and wean it at the appropriate time. It is important for the public to understand this truth to prevent more needless deaths of baby parrots. Breeders who try to convince you that it is “easy” and that the bird will bond to you better are most likely just trying to save themselves a few weeks of work.

Click to expand...

Dangers and Risks of Hand-feeding Baby Birds | Parrot Parrot

And a professional opinion by Dr. Wissman, a Board Certified Avian Special-ist

There is no doubt in my mind that many a baby bird has expired as a result of hand-feeding mishaps. Unweaned baby birds should not be sold or given to inexperienced hand-feeders for this reason. It is not necessary for a baby bird to be hand-fed by the family purchasing it in order for it to become "bonded" to them. Budgies are routinely tamed down as pets once they have fledged by the parents, and this can also occur with larger birds fed-out by the parents. Baby birds can also be hand-fed by the aviculturist, and be visited by the new owners to allow the babies to become accustomed to their new families. Weaned birds can be sold to owners, and they will settle in with their new families in no time. So, there is no reason for a baby to be fed by an inexperienced owner.

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Top Ten Bird Killers

Hi
Wow! Thanks for all the help, suggestions and support. My decision is not to go with that breeder. He had me believing it was common practice to have the new owner ween the baby. I will try to research more about adopting an adult. I am 54 years old and have always worked. My degree is just a part of that. Now that I will be working less and home more, I feel I have time to work with the new addition. As for the pair, I thought maybe a pair would be better for them to be together. If anyone has any ideas at all or can suggest any books or training tools that I might use to research further, please let me know. Thank you again.

Maryellen

I'm not shore about going through Craig's list. I found really good breeders near me by going through bird breeder.com then check each one out until I was happy. If you do go to one of them I would take someone with me to be on the safe side. But I wouldn't take an un weaned bird.

Hi
The consenus of this forum is not to go with unweaned birds and that is why I joined this forum - the advice and support. So I am now searching for a bird breeder that is legit. I have found a few but so far away. Thank you all for the advice. I wonder what everyone thinks of the pair I found.

Breeding pair of African Grey Parrots

or

Breeding pair of African Grey parrots

Thanks to everyone for their help with this. So grateful for this forum!

Maryellen

ms1sign1 said:

Hi
The consenus of this forum is not to go with unweaned birds and that is why I joined this forum - the advice and support. So I am now searching for a bird breeder that is legit. I have found a few but so far away. Thank you all for the advice. I wonder what everyone thinks of the pair I found.

Breeding pair of African Grey Parrots

or

Breeding pair of African Grey parrots

Thanks to everyone for their help with this. So grateful for this forum!

Maryellen

Click to expand...

are you actually looking for a bonded pair?

What are you going to do when they have babies?

ms1sign1 said:

Hi
The consenus of this forum is not to go with unweaned birds and that is why I joined this forum - the advice and support. So I am now searching for a bird breeder that is legit. I have found a few but so far away. Thank you all for the advice. I wonder what everyone thinks of the pair I found.

Breeding pair of African Grey Parrots

or

Breeding pair of African Grey parrots

Thanks to everyone for their help with this. So grateful for this forum!

Maryellen

Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend either. Unless you are looking at breeding the greys, you'd be best off having a single bird. Bonded pairs can become very territorial and aggressive; even to the point of attacking their own owner or anyone else that comes into their personal space.

Though the ad claims that they are friendly, that is with an owner who is familiar with the birds, so the birds will be more at ease around him/her. You, yourself are a new unfamiliar person who they don't know, and because they have each other, they may not want to bond with you.

Here is a list of bird clubs in the US:

United States | Bird Clubs Network | BirdClubs.Net

Find one in your state and contact them to put you in contact with a breeder.

Otherwise, as I said before:

Alisana said:

You'd be MUCH better off contacting your local bird rescue centre or avian club.

A rescue center can match you up with a bird, and getting an adult, you will KNOW the behavioural issues before you bring it home. Avian clubs on the other hand can put you in touch with reputable breeders. You could try something like a Parrot Society (we have one in Australia), and they keep a list of breeders and classifieds through their member site.

Click to expand...

I really, really do not like craigslist; and you only need to be scammed ONCE to understand why. While there are genuine sellers out there, for each genuine seller, there are probably 5 or 10 scammers lined up and waiting.

If you MUST go through craigslist, find a bird local to you where you can inspect it BEFORE hand.

Common tricks are:
1. Great bargain! Have to move away for work. Pay COD, but you have to cover shipping costs. Bird never arrives.
2. Located near you - email to drop in to view bird - seller has moved halfway across the country. "Oh, we can still ship it to you, will cost x amount". Bird never arrives.
3. Pay deposit now, and seller drops off later. Bird never arrives.
4. And more.

I don't mean to sound negative about craigslist, but I would rather you get a genuine sale then end up out of pocket.

Refer to: Parrot Kingdom - Scam Alert - Parrot Bird Scams

How to protect yourself from parrot bird scams

1. Buy parrot bird locally
2. Never send your money abroad
3. if the prices are too cheap to be true or even offer parrots for free, then it is fraud
4. Be careful with free websites. They usually have ads on top of its pages

If you really must buy parrot from out of states then
Get their references from their out of states' customers

Google their emails and phones to make sure

Check their references - call to talk to the sellers directly

If you don't feel comfortable with their process, stop it and walk away

Where I can buy parrot locally?
Here are some places that you can check locally

Bird Talk Magazine - Local ads on its back pages

BirdBreeders.com - Bird Breeders Directory of Availability and Parrot Breeders - websites you can check parrots available from your states

San Diego Classifieds - Free Classifieds Ads for San Diego, California at eBay Classifieds (Kijiji). - click the link to your local site, then select Birds under Pets section.

Your local bird parrot clubs

Your reputational local petshops

Local parrot keepers

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See if there is a Bird Sale happening in your state. These are organised events by Avian Clubs which brings together a very large collection of breeders and birds; you'll be able to find a bird there.

Be patient about your new companion. You want to ensure you do everything right by your Grey, and yourself.

Don't rush....(even though I know exactly how you feel about wanting one, we are researching for another parrot someday too). There is a wonderful bird out there for you and when the time is right, it'll just happen and you'll be sooo glad that you waited! They will be with you a loooooong time so you want to be sure he/she is just right.

Breeding pairs are not pets. As others have said, look for a single bird if you're wanting a pet. Good luck! I'm glad you're researching options.

Hi again,

Well, I am still searchng and researching. It is all good though. I am learning a lot. I took all of the advice from this forum. No unweaned birds and no pairs for me. I am looking at a CAG that is 2 years old. He is not too far from my home and the owners seem nice. They have a newborn and travel a lot for work so they are not home enough and feel bad about not devoting enough time. A lot like the situation I was in years ago. I am going to see the bird on the 15th of September. Any suggestions for my visit would be greatly appreciated.

Maryellen

That sounds promising.

I would suggest asking when the last vet check was? and if it was an Avian vet.
Then if there have been any health/behavior concerns?
I would have them show you how handleable he is, whether he can step up, etc?
I would ask what they feed him and have them show it to you?

Thats all I can think of at the moment while I am working.

Best of luck!

Didomum said:

I'm not shore about going through Craig's list. I found really good breeders near me by going through bird breeder.com then check each one out until I was happy. If you do go to one of them I would take someone with me to be on the safe side. But I wouldn't take an un weaned bird.

Click to expand...

Do your homework! You should be able to visit the breeder/broker (person who raises birds commercially for a breeder). See how clean and well cared-for are the premises and animals. Ask how the babies are fed -- syringe/spoon but not Gavage (sticking a tube down the chick's throat). Also when is the baby going to be weaned and what types of food will he be eating. In turn, this person should be asking you a lot of questions as well, especially like where will your companion be housed, size of cage, what experience do you have with parrots. It's not personal, just good practice on both your and the seller's behalf for the good of your new friend.

Be cautious about BirdBreeders.com. I have dealt with them...they like to post the positive reviews of their breeder/handlers, but don't always post the marginal or poor reviews. Don't just take their word ... contact the seller.

I have owned 3 greys (my two new ones are on this forum). I can give you some information about the breeders/brokers I have dealt with. PM me. Tristan

Not everyone avoids unweaned birds. Some have experience and wean them themselves. You just have to know what youre doing, and some that have jist of it hut havent physically done it yet get unweaned birds and they turn out fine. Every experienced and proffesional started out at sqaure one. If we never took the risk we wouldve never had hand fed birds. And I have not read anywhere thatthis forum is against unweaned birds. Its a matter of opinion and experience. Just because you arent experienced enough doesnt mean others arent. I personally wouldnt buy a weaned because I dont know anyone nearby to turn to for help and I dont have the time.