My Grey is driving me CRAZY!!!

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

As I'm sure most parrot owners have experienced this, I will share with you my frustrations in hopes to see a light at the end of this annoying tunnel ....

My Grey has begun screaming for attention. I live on the middle floor of a house between two people, and as you can imagine, when she gets going ... this is a major source of frustration and stress. I've been working with her for around a week now with the training behaviours to stop this. I just don't see any progress yet and it worries me. I try to give her attention when I come home from work as she has been in her cage all day long and is letting off some steam. I am also aware that parrots do make noise and at times well ... she's just going to be a bird! That is completely fine with me and makes me happy to know that she is happy. However, the second I step out of the room and I hear her demanding my attention when I have other things to attend to (I do need to have a life outside of her ... despite what she may think!) ... that gets on my last nerve. In addition to worrying about how the other people in the house might feel about her lovely screams.

I haven't had any complaints yet, thankfully, but I worry that if this behaviour does not stop the complaints are going to start rolling in.

So PLEASE ... can anyone advise me on any other tricks to eliminate this behaviour ... or let me know around what time frame I can start seeing results.

Ack!!

Kiwibird · Mar 21, 2014

First you have to have a clear understanding of WHY the bird is screaming in this circumstance. They do scream for different reasons, and the same method of addressing one type of scream does not work for all screaming behaviors. Screaming is kind of like their language, and how they communicate with each other over large areas of jungle. This particular screaming behavior is obviously prompted by you leaving. Parrots are flock animals, and it is unnatural for most species to spend any time alone from their flock. When a flock mate leaves, they interpret that as a dangerous situation for both you and them and therefore call out for you. In the birds mind, you may have been eaten by a predator or may be lost and unable to locate your flock (leaving you venerable to being eating). They are going to call as loudly as possible so you can "find them" and safely make your way back. being alone also leaves THEM feeling venerable and afraid. What if a predator comes when their back is turned and no flock mate can warn them or what if they become lost?

Being able to be alone comfortably is a LEARNED behavior in parrots, not an inherent one. Especially a bird who has only been with you a week and is still very unsure of everything, including your schedule. I would start making a positive association with you leaving by means of distraction with self rewarding activities. For example, when you need to leave the room, hide a treat in her foraging toy real quick. When you leave for work, set aside 5 minutes right before you walk out the door to hide forging and swap out some new toys. If possible, withhold her morning meal until right before you leave for work too. If she is busy eating, playing and foraging, it will not be quite as traumatic that you go and she will become used to the "cue" of you doing these things as an indication you are leaving and will soon return. By providing foraging and toys, this allows her to "reward" herself for positive behavior when you aren't around to do so. It also keeps her occupied and teaches her how to have fun without the flock. Naturally, this isn't going to happen overnight, but it will help over time. Our bird was a "multi-faceted" screamer when we got him, and it took a lot of "thinking like a parrot" then using creative means of behavioral modification and teaching and learning ourselves to identify and correct ALL the different reasons he screamed.

I would strongly encourage you to do a fair amount of research into how African grays behave in the WILD, what their natural social interactions are and how they "work". It will give you a lot of insight into why your girl is behaving the way she is in captivity and the information to come up with a solution to the natural behavior you would like to modify.

Edit: An HONEST timeframe for most birds would probably be around 6 months to a year of CONSISTENT working with them. You may be able to get her used to leaving, but then she will start screaming for attention, or to convey a need, or because she wants to hear her own voice, and all those need to be addressed too. Screaming is one of the more difficult behaviors, but it's worth the time and effort because it creates an easier relationship with your bird when they express themselves in a different way. It's a lot easier to train them a new concept (like a trick or to talk) then it is to train a natural, instinctual behavior out of them. Just keep working with her though, it WILL get better if YOU put in the time and effort.

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

Kiwibird said:
First you have to have a clear understanding of WHY the bird is screaming in this circumstance. They do scream for different reasons, and the same method of addressing one type of scream does not work for all screaming behaviors. Screaming is kind of like their language, and how they communicate with each other over large areas of jungle. This particular screaming behavior is obviously prompted by you leaving. Parrots are flock animals, and it is unnatural for most species to spend any time alone from their flock. When a flock mate leaves, they interpret that as a dangerous situation for both you and them and therefore call out for you. In the birds mind, you may have been eaten by a predator or may be lost and unable to locate your flock (leaving you venerable to being eating). They are going to call as loudly as possible so you can "find them" and safely make your way back. being alone also leaves THEM feeling venerable and afraid. What if a predator comes when their back is turned and no flock mate can warn them or what if they become lost?

Being able to be alone comfortably is a LEARNED behavior in parrots, not an inherent one. Especially a bird who has only been with you a week and is still very unsure of everything, including your schedule. I would start making a positive association with you leaving by means of distraction with self rewarding activities. For example, when you need to leave the room, hide a treat in her foraging toy real quick. When you leave for work, set aside 5 minutes right before you walk out the door to hide forging and swap out some new toys. If possible, withhold her morning meal until right before you leave for work too. If she is busy eating, playing and foraging, it will not be quite as traumatic that you go and she will become used to the "cue" of you doing these things as an indication you are leaving and will soon return. By providing foraging and toys, this allows her to "reward" herself for positive behavior when you aren't around to do so. It also keeps her occupied and teaches her how to have fun without the flock. Naturally, this isn't going to happen overnight, but it will help over time. Our bird was a "multi-faceted" screamer when we got him, and it took a lot of "thinking like a parrot" then using creative means of behavioral modification and teaching and learning ourselves to identify and correct ALL the different reasons he screamed.

I would strongly encourage you to do a fair amount of research into how African grays behave in the WILD, what their natural social interactions are and how they "work". It will give you a lot of insight into why your girl is behaving the way she is in captivity and the information to come up with a solution to the natural behavior you would like to modify.

Edit: An HONEST timeframe for most birds would probably be around 6 months to a year of CONSISTENT working with them. You may be able to get her used to leaving, but then she will start screaming for attention, or to convey a need, or because she wants to hear her own voice, and all those need to be addressed too. Screaming is one of the more difficult behaviors, but it's worth the time and effort because it creates an easier relationship with your bird when they express themselves in a different way. It's a lot easier to train them a new concept (like a trick or to talk) then it is to train a natural, instinctual behavior out of them. Just keep working with her though, it WILL get better if YOU put in the time and effort.

Hi, and I thank you for the advice. I've been a bird owner for the majority of my life so I've definitely done my research and know what I am up against in terms of screaming behaviours. However ... I have never been in an environment where the people around me may not love birds as much as I do. Living in an apartment, essentially ... I can't have this behaviour continue regardless of why she is screaming or not. I know that she's just looking out for me and for herself but it is a point of stress.

I have had her for almost 3 months now, and have been working with her for 1 week approx. on the screaming behaviour. I shouldn't say that I haven't seen any results, because amidst the screams she does let out a nice whistle that I always return to her. Then she makes another happy noise in response. But then the screams start up again. The problem is never really with me leaving because she is used to the morning routine. I take her out for 15-20 min before I go ... when I put her back in the cage I give her a treat. I close the apartment door, listen for a few min and she will make some screams but they always die down. I leave some Songza playlists on for the birds during the day. The problem is when I come home and she wants to monopolize my time. And though I find it flattering ... it is impossible. Previously with other birds, it was a non issue and they could be as loud as they pleased. Scream away all day if they wanted to. But apartments really aren't good for that.

Though I do know that when I got my red belly, I've had her for almost a year now .. she would scream too. Thing is, with my red belly I never really worked with her on this behaviour. She would scream and I would just ignore it for the most part and then it was almost like one day she just decided she would stop. LOL. Now she is okay with being on her cage alone and will only let out a call occasionally to see where I am and if I am okay. It's harder to ignore a much louder African Grey .... I do know that these things take time and I of course will be working with her on a consistent basis.

I'm not so concerned with the details behind it, because I'm aware. I'm more looking for advice on how other people have trained their birds to stop screaming ... any fast-track methods and things that really work beyond the normal scope of training behaviours that I've researched. Insider tips!

Gizmomania · Mar 21, 2014

Where do you have her cage located? Does she have a place where she has the opportunity to watch you? Is she near a window she can look out? Do you play music for her?

My CAG has never shrieked for me, which got me to wondering if it's because of his temperament, or perhaps because he can see me a LOT, look out the window, listen to music, or because he has birdie buddies all around him to chat with.

If he's in a location that doesn't allow him the best view of you, you might consider switching it up.

When Maalik's out of his cage, he's ALWAYS on my shoulder, watching everything that I do. He gets a complete hour of my undivided attention, after which time he's content either chilling on top of his cage or harassing my Zon, Harley.

Gizmomania · Mar 21, 2014

Another thought, which I realize is controversial, is the whole flighted thing. With CAGS, it's even more important to keep them flighted. They are more confident and in control of what they can do. Hence they potentially rely less on their owners, as they can meet more of their own needs. Just a thought.

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

Gizmomania said:
Where do you have her cage located? Does she have a place where she has the opportunity to watch you? Is she near a window she can look out? Do you play music for her?

My CAG has never shrieked for me, which got me to wondering if it's because of his temperament, or perhaps because he can see me a LOT, look out the window, listen to music, or because he has birdie buddies all around him to chat with.

If he's in a location that doesn't allow him the best view of you, you might consider switching it up.

When Maalik's out of his cage, he's ALWAYS on my shoulder, watching everything that I do. He gets a complete hour of my undivided attention, after which time he's content either chilling on top of his cage or harassing my Zon, Harley.

Her cage is located near a window so she can definitely see outside and she enjoys sitting on the back on the couch and watching all the cars go by.

Could be because of her temperament. I know that greys are naturally nervous birds ... but she was extra sensitive which is what I was told when I got her. She was super quiet adjusting to her environment when I brought her home and is now getting more comfortable and starting to come out of her shell. What a welcome to her large personality LOL.

She isn't in a location where she can get a view of me all the time but she is in the main room where I spend the majority of my time. And will bring her with me when I am doing the dishes etc. It's just when I'm stepping out for couple min to go elsewhere or to shower or something she starts. As well, I do the same when I get home from work I give her and my red belly attention for about an hour and play with them, we dance together

I do try to have music playing for them when I am at work, and her and my other bird do chat but for the most part my other bird is quiet.

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

Gizmomania said:
Another thought, which I realize is controversial, is the whole flighted thing. With CAGS, it's even more important to keep them flighted. They are more confident and in control of what they can do. Hence they potentially rely less on their owners, as they can meet more of their own needs. Just a thought.

Well she is clipped now but I plan to let her wings grow back and not clip her again. But I will hold her feet and we will walk around together and she will flap her wings wherever she goes so that she can get that confidence. Oftentimes she will fly off her cage and land on the couch and walk down from there to come find me.

Kiwibird · Mar 21, 2014

There isn't really any "fast track" methods. A bird will learn at their own pace through consistent reactions on your part (whatever that may be). Some learn faster than others. And you can't modify a behavior unless you understand it.

I do understand the difficulties of having a screamer in an apartment scenario. When we got Kiwi he was a SCREAMER (like hear him 2 blocks away screamer). We spoke to our neighbors, introduced Kiwi, explained his situation as a rescue and explained he might make some noise for a little while as we trained him, but it would only be during the day and within a month or 2 he would be much much better. Just generally informed them about parrots and parrot behavior in a sugar-coated, simplistic way (wasn't like they were trying to buy one, just wanted them to deal with ours until he behaved better). And after a few weeks, it did lessen to just a few occasional screeches instead of 20 solid minutes of it, and we kept our neighbors posted of the progress and of course he's a beautiful bird, so I think they were just enamored to see him. I always feel honesty is the best policy and also to inform people. You may know all about birds, but your neighbors don't necessarily. I find people tend to be more understanding when presented with the facts of a situation especially when they are introduced to such a spectacular and amazing animal and can make that mental connection

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

Kiwibird said:
There isn't really any "fast track" methods. A bird will learn at their own pace through consistent reactions on your part (whatever that may be). Some learn faster than others. And you can't modify a behavior unless you understand it.

I do understand the difficulties of having a screamer in an apartment scenario. When we got Kiwi he was a SCREAMER (like hear him 2 blocks away screamer). We spoke to our neighbors, introduced Kiwi, explained his situation as a rescue and explained he might make some noise for a little while as we trained him, but it would only be during the day and within a month or 2 he would be much much better. Just generally informed them about parrots and parrot behavior in a sugar-coated, simplistic way (wasn't like they were trying to buy one, just wanted them to deal with ours until he behaved better). And after a few weeks, it did lessen to just a few occasional screeches instead of 20 solid minutes of it, and we kept our neighbors posted of the progress and of course he's a beautiful bird, so I think they were just enamored to see him. I always feel honesty is the best policy and also to inform people. You may know all about birds, but your neighbors don't necessarily. I find people tend to be more understanding when presented with the facts of a situation especially when they are introduced to such a spectacular and amazing animal and can make that mental connection

This is great! And I thank you ... that is a wonderful idea. I was considering doing this. Maybe write a little note and slip it under my neighbours door and ask if they would like to come see the bird etc. The worst is not knowing what other people are feeling/thinking.

I apologize for any misunderstanding but I feel like I am at my wits end with this. I realize that there is no quick fix ... but some times I wish there was a birdy sound proof box that I could create for apartment people and their pets hahaha!

Gizmomania · Mar 21, 2014

I think we all can understand what you're going through, CassMarie. I love Kiwi's idea of contacting the neighbors, especially since that part is stressing you out considerably as you wonder what they might be thinking. Should at least help to ease your mind!

Kiwibird · Mar 21, 2014

You did ask the question in such a way it appeared as though you did not in fact understand why the bird is screaming and needed advice on what to do. Many people on here are new to birds in general or just new to larger birds which have different care requirements than smaller ones. You didn't say you were a lifelong bird owner who knew everything there was to know. You said "I am having a problem, can someone please advise".

Just because you do not like the advice or it does not work into what you feel should be happening with your bird at the pace you hope it happens does not mean it is bad advice or insulting to you in any way. I have dealt with a screamer, in an apartment, and I do understand the frustration. It is nerve-wracking and you expect the animal control to turn up at any moment to confiscate the bird because a neighbor became annoyed. However, the only "methods" (if you want to call them that) that will get a bird to shut up right this very second are going to cause much more serious behavioral issues down the line than screaming. That's why no one suggests punishment-based training in the "pretentious" avian community, because the instant gratification of the behavior stopping immediately does not have a positive effect long term. The only proven effective way to stop a bird from screaming is constant ignoring/distracting and positive reinforcement. And if you have all your other bases covered (out of cage time, toys, healthy diet, by a window, whatever...) then it's just something that will take time.

getwozzy · Mar 21, 2014

CassMarie said:
The problem is never really with me leaving because she is used to the morning routine. I take her out for 15-20 min before I go .......

The problem is when I come home and she wants to monopolize my time. And though I find it flattering ... it is impossible.

So how much time does she spend with you outside of her cage??

Also- maybe you can start teaching her an "acceptable" way to call you....like a word or a phrase.... When you're in the other room and she's quiet, call to her with the phrase you want her to use and then walk into the room (I'm not sure if that's technically the way to do it, but I'm sure she's smart enough to pick up on it

) but after so long of doing the same thing, she would eventually start calling out the phrase/word instead of screaming for you.

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

getwozzy said:
CassMarie said:

The problem is never really with me leaving because she is used to the morning routine. I take her out for 15-20 min before I go .......

The problem is when I come home and she wants to monopolize my time. And though I find it flattering ... it is impossible.

Click to expand...

So how much time does she spend with you outside of her cage??

Also- maybe you can start teaching her an "acceptable" way to call you....like a word or a phrase.... When you're in the other room and she's quiet, call to her with the phrase you want her to use and then walk into the room (I'm not sure if that's technically the way to do it, but I'm sure she's smart enough to pick up on it ) but after so long of doing the same thing, she would eventually start calling out the phrase/word instead of screaming for you.

On the weekends she is out all day long. During the work week I would say she is out of her cage for maybe 6 hrs a day.

I've had *some* progress with this "acceptable" whistle .... but I will definitely take Kiwi's advice and write a note to the neighbours. I think this will relieve some stress more than anything!

getwozzy · Mar 21, 2014

Would it be possible to include her in things like taking a shower with you? What about harness training??

With my galah, when she's being extra screechy I usually give her a misting bath and she spends the next half hour or so quietly preening herself. First, I make sure she doesn't need anything else though, because she is very toddler-like and gets crabby when she's thirsty, hungry, tired, bored, etc lol but usually a bath helps

Kiwibird · Mar 21, 2014

CassMarie said:
getwozzy said:

CassMarie said:

The problem is never really with me leaving because she is used to the morning routine. I take her out for 15-20 min before I go .......

The problem is when I come home and she wants to monopolize my time. And though I find it flattering ... it is impossible.

Click to expand...

So how much time does she spend with you outside of her cage??

Also- maybe you can start teaching her an "acceptable" way to call you....like a word or a phrase.... When you're in the other room and she's quiet, call to her with the phrase you want her to use and then walk into the room (I'm not sure if that's technically the way to do it, but I'm sure she's smart enough to pick up on it ) but after so long of doing the same thing, she would eventually start calling out the phrase/word instead of screaming for you.

Click to expand...

On the weekends she is out all day long. During the work week I would say she is out of her cage for maybe 6 hrs a day.

I've had *some* progress with this "acceptable" whistle .... but I will definitely take Kiwi's advice and write a note to the neighbours. I think this will relieve some stress more than anything!

I think thats a good idea. Just let them know whats going on, emphasize its a TEMPORARY situation (the screaming, not the bird!) and let them see her and say hello. You can explain that she's very new to you and has never been trained, so you are training her now. Explain that much like a toddler throwing a tantrum, she'll have to "cry herself out" a couple times before she gets that she doesn't get the attention she wants, and your working with her (and have made quite a bit of progress

) on making a nice whistle instead when she wants something. If she whistles on cue, then demonstrate for them. Be confident when explaining it, and speak as if you REALLY know what your talking about so they are convinced this isn't something to worry one bit about

Most people have never met a large parrot, or only seen one in a zoo or "show" situation. They will probably be very excited to to see her and actually have a million questions for you about her.

Our neighbors have always adored Kiwi and been super fascinated with him and had a million questions every time they see him. Even in the begging before he was well trained, they were still more inquisitive than upset he made some *temporary* noise. Not because he is the most interesting parrot or has special talents, rather WE made them comfortable about him living nearby and definitely dispelled the notion we had one of those parrot horror stories going on in our home. After he was behaving better and started coming outside for baths and stuff, people would gather to see him (which was not intentional):52: Most people love animals, so use that to your advantage

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

getwozzy said:
Would it be possible to include her in things like taking a shower with you? What about harness training??

With my galah, when she's being extra screechy I usually give her a misting bath and she spends the next half hour or so quietly preening herself. First, I make sure she doesn't need anything else though, because she is very toddler-like and gets crabby when she's thirsty, hungry, tired, bored, etc lol but usually a bath helps

YES! I am anxiously waiting for the weather to get warmer so I can take her outside. It's been in the negatives here in Ontario for months. I'm talking like -45 degrees!! I plan to get a harness and take her outside with me for walks and let her flap her wings and see the wild outdoors! hahaha.

She is a big baby and hates water. She tries to bite the stream of water when I mist her and when I put her in the shower she tucks her wings tight to her body and doesn't move a muscle LOL. But I will try to include her in more things like when I get ready in the morning I think she might like if she's in there with me while I put on my makeup.

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

Kiwibird said:
CassMarie said:

getwozzy said:

So how much time does she spend with you outside of her cage??

Also- maybe you can start teaching her an "acceptable" way to call you....like a word or a phrase.... When you're in the other room and she's quiet, call to her with the phrase you want her to use and then walk into the room (I'm not sure if that's technically the way to do it, but I'm sure she's smart enough to pick up on it ) but after so long of doing the same thing, she would eventually start calling out the phrase/word instead of screaming for you.

Click to expand...

On the weekends she is out all day long. During the work week I would say she is out of her cage for maybe 6 hrs a day.

I've had *some* progress with this "acceptable" whistle .... but I will definitely take Kiwi's advice and write a note to the neighbours. I think this will relieve some stress more than anything!

Click to expand...

I think thats a good idea. Just let them know whats going on, emphasize its a TEMPORARY situation (the screaming, not the bird!) and let them see her and say hello. You can explain that she's very new to you and has never been trained, so you are training her now. Explain that much like a toddler throwing a tantrum, she'll have to "cry herself out" a couple times before she gets that she doesn't get the attention she wants, and your working with her (and have made quite a bit of progress) on making a nice whistle instead when she wants something. If she whistles on cue, then demonstrate for them. Be confident when explaining it, and speak as if you REALLY know what your talking about so they are convinced this isn't something to worry one bit about Most people have never met a large parrot, or only seen one in a zoo or "show" situation. They will probably be very excited to to see her and actually have a million questions for you about her.

Our neighbors have always adored Kiwi and been super fascinated with him and had a million questions every time they see him. Even in the begging before he was well trained, they were still more inquisitive than upset he made some *temporary* noise. Not because he is the most interesting parrot or has special talents, rather WE made them comfortable about him living nearby and definitely dispelled the notion we had one of those parrot horror stories going on in our home. After he was behaving better and started coming outside for baths and stuff, people would gather to see him (which was not intentional):52: Most people love animals, so use that to your advantage

Ha ha ha! No one needs to know that I haven't made *that* much progress just yet .... but I have no doubts that she will get there. I thought perhaps there was maybe a specific "underground" secret that someone had used that worked quicker than the average etc. But I guess it just takes time .... *le sigh* ... oh these birds....

I'm going to use this advice and explain it in that way and relate it to a toddler. That might get the message across in the best way. And I definitely wouldn't want to give the impression that I am super stressed out about it because that would put people off ... but I do feel a bit on edge these days about it because I just constantly worry! However, I'm going to take a breather ... write a nice little note to the neighbours and I guess that is all I can do! I hope for the best.

getwozzy · Mar 21, 2014

OMG that's cold!!! LOL. I would probably get a harness now and start working with her on it now- that way when the nice weather comes, you're both ready. A lot of birds are not easy going with having a harness put on them- sometimes it can take months.... And sometimes it can take a lot of work for them to get used to it.

Maybe even just have a perch in the bathroom so she can be with you? Maybe she'll eventually learn that showers won't kill her

When I'm doing my makeup, my galah is in the closet with me climbing all over the shelves and exploring....otherwise she'd be screeching for my attention just outside the door.

Maybe put a play stand or something in a room you're frequently in but she's not- that way she can still be with you, but preoccupied with toys.

CassMarie · Mar 21, 2014

getwozzy said:
OMG that's cold!!! LOL. I would probably get a harness now and start working with her on it now- that way when the nice weather comes, you're both ready. A lot of birds are not easy going with having a harness put on them- sometimes it can take months.... And sometimes it can take a lot of work for them to get used to it.

Maybe even just have a perch in the bathroom so she can be with you? Maybe she'll eventually learn that showers won't kill her

When I'm doing my makeup, my galah is in the closet with me climbing all over the shelves and exploring....otherwise she'd be screeching for my attention just outside the door.

Maybe put a play stand or something in a room you're frequently in but she's not- that way she can still be with you, but preoccupied with toys.

You know what, that is so true! I should start working with her asap so that we can enjoy the weather outside together!

LOL!! She is so dramatic about water. I think it is cute and funny at the same time ... and one day she might learn.

Actually, I ended up buying this perch today called the "Happy Perch" and I like it because it has suction cups so I can stick it to the bathroom counter and she can just be in there with me which is great!

My Grey is driving me CRAZY!!!

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