African Grey Food

I have my Brother's African Grey staying with me. My Brother left me instructions to feed it parrot mix and millet and peanuts and little bits of anything that I think she might like apart from avocado. He said she knows what she likes and what she needs.
I have been reading up on parrots and changed her diet to just a few seeds and lots of fruit and veg. Some of it she eats, and the rest she flicks everywhere. Loads of mess. I do not mind the mess but my Brother, who comes around everyday to clean her cage does not like to see her cage in such a mess and has instructed me to go back to her old diet of mainly seeds.
My Brother is in his 70's. This parrot is his third; it is a healthy, full feathered, talkative, tame, happy, 27 year-old parrot, but it seems from the experts that my Brother is doing everything wrong. I am confused. Why isn't this parrot long dead?
Her cage door is always open and her favourite place is to sit on the top of it and look out the window. Why doesn't she fall off her perch from weakness due to lack of vitamins?
P:S: I also read of an African Grey which died at the age of 55 years and it's favourite food was Kit Kat chocolate wafers!
What I would like is facts, not website text repetition. Is there an old parrot owner with an old parrot who has actual (not virtual) information.
Thank you.

I think it is just odds. Like humans, if we eat crap every day, and drink and smoke etc...whatever else unhealthy we probably aren't long for this world.

On the other hand, i personally know someone that is over 70 years old, hasn't eaten a healthy meal in their life, chronic alcoholic for the last 50+ years (like real heavy drinking)...chain smoking every day. And is still alive...how is that possible, i don't know.

....

So my guess while an all seed diet surely isn't making the bird as healthy as it could be, doesn't mean it will instantly die.

Angel is stuck on seeds right now, trying to get her to move to pellets and healthier mixes of food. But from what i have read it can be a real challenge to get them to transition.

But do we have it all wrong? Take a dog; give it a choice of a plate of fruit to eat versus steak. It will choose the steak, it is the correct choice and the dog knows it. Maybe a parrot in the wild would eat more seeds and nuts if there were more available. Are we trying to be too knowing/learned, humans know best. Eat your spinach parrot, like it or not. And nuts? Can we call a natural food, straight from the tree, crap? Just questioning - I know nothing about parrots and am trying to learn but do not want to get bogged down in hearsay. I gave my Brother's parrot a brussels sprout because I heard that they were good for them - try telling my Brother's parrot that - or does it know better and threw it where it felt it belonged - on the bottom of a birdcage with all the other ****

ya know....maybe your brother has done a real good job NOT stressing the parrot out...maybe the parrot likes its home a lot..sleeps well...has the right toys..gets exercise...some people are just plain better then others with animals...my guess is that other animals like him...for sure my friends growing up that were part native american were closer to nature then the rest of us...people that have low stress live longer..healthier..even though they may be not so good to their bodies other ways.......with raising monitor lizards stress is such a big deal..proper hide spots..temps..exercise..that kind of stuff...so maybe the rest of your brothers husbandry is very good...maybe the parrot loves your brother...bottom line its not just the parrot its the parrot together with its partner or partners......billy

You have to remember parrots are like children, in both intelligence and behavior.

Granted the intelligence of a 5 year old is extremely smart for an animal...but think of a 5 year old behavior. Would they eat chocolate every day forever, and no vegies? Of course, they would continue to choose candy every time.

Also in certain moods my dogs would choose to eat a pile of horse poo over some meat on the ground. So i don't think that analogy is a good one.

My view is parrots in the wild would need to eat a variety of items to survive, giving them a good spread of nutrients. As much as your brothers bird, and my angel would like, there isn't a giant bowl of sunflower seeds sitting out int he forest for them to come to and eat.

Jasper, I am interested in the claim that parrots have the intelligence of a five-year-old human. To me, an adult bird in its natural environment would be able to survive, whereas a five-year-old human in its natural environment could not. It puzzles me that one can be judged against the other. Do you know of a website that has scientific or field documentation I can read that supports the claim?
As for horse manure, all dogs seem to like a nibble of the stuff. Maybe there is something in it that is good for them. I would think the only problem with it is that people fill their animals with all kinds of drugs nowadays and that turns an innocuous nibble to unhealthy.

Welcome to the forum, Willy.

I just read your original post - twice.

Perhaps you should take the time and browse our extensive forums, and you will find MUCH useful and helpful information on 'proper' diet, behavior, damage a less than optimal diet 'can' cause, etc. You will most likely also find that we have many members with birds well in their 30s, 40s (and beyond). Some of those were adopted as 'older' birds, and some were raised as chicks.

I'm sure this link will be quite helpful for you: http://www.parrotforums.com/technical-support/49179-advanced-search-functionality.html

Lastly we kindly ask you to refrain from using 'foul' language, as outlined in our forum rules. Words appearing like this "****" indicate foul language was used.

Welcome Willy!

What Jasper referred to is the intellectual ability the African grey has...ability to learn and understand is on par with that of a five year old human child. If you would like to see a very good example on this,
research Dr. Irene Pepperberg and Alex. It will blow your mind!

They also have the emotional capacity of a two year old human child.

As far as food is concerned, Jasper is correct, because there is not a giant bowl of sunflower seeds in the forest, they have to eat a variety of foods in order get sufficiently fed, correct?

I believe with the knowledge we gained through people who has done the research, we have the responsibility to provide the best for our parrots, as we (humans) took them from their natural home, and with that took away their ability to provide for themselves, it is our duty to do the best we can to provide what they lost to them.

Knowing that a sunflower seed diet will cause fatty liver disease amongst others, providing that as its main food source would be very irresponsible for example.

I know by doing some research you will be able to provide a more balanced diet to this grey. Way to go on reaching out and researching to get the information needed! [emoji4]

Willy said:

Jasper, I am interested in the claim that parrots have the intelligence of a five-year-old human. To me, an adult bird in its natural environment would be able to survive, whereas a five-year-old human in its natural environment could not. It puzzles me that one can be judged against the other. Do you know of a website that has scientific or field documentation I can read that supports the claim?
As for horse manure, all dogs seem to like a nibble of the stuff. Maybe there is something in it that is good for them. I would think the only problem with it is that people fill their animals with all kinds of drugs nowadays and that turns an innocuous nibble to unhealthy.

Click to expand...

If I may add a pointer or two.....this article may help you.

With their unusually large brains relative to their body size and advanced cognition, parrots live in a complex social environment -- not merely in a large population of cooperating creatures, such as bees or ants, but in a dynamic setting of alliances and competitors. The same is true of the most intelligent mammals: dolphins, whales, primates, and social carnivores, like hyenas and lions.
A new study -- the first to quantify the social lives of parrots using social network analysis -- provides intriguing new insights into parrot sociality revealing a sophisticated social structure with layers of relationships and complex interactions.
In the study, researchers observed both wild monk parakeets in Argentina and captive ones in Florida to test several common but largely untested assumptions about parrot sociality.
Because parrots are often observed flying in pairs in the wild, one assumption is that parrot sociality revolves around the pair bond. But are the parrots flying with a true mate or simply flying with any individual?
Coupling the extensive field study with in-depth network analyses revealed that parrots -- at least those in captive groups -- do show a strong preference for associating with a specific individual and are usually found nearby their mate. In addition, the social networks of captive groups were highly connected with very strong associations with one or two other individuals, multiple moderate associates, and only a few weak associates.
The new research demonstrates that the pair is indeed the fundamental unit of monk parakeet social structure, but additional tiers of social structure, akin to social levels documented in elephants, sea lions, and dolphins, may also be present.
In addition to these positive social relationships, captive monk parakeet groups were also structured by aggression. Researchers used observations of winners and losers in aggressive encounters to assign individual parakeets a dominance rank.
Together, the new research shows that the social lives of monk parakeets are structured by several types of relationships. In order for individuals to recognize where they fit in to the social structure of their group, they would need to recognize and remember others in their group, to remember how they interacted with specific individuals, and to remember the outcomes of those interactions. Managing this process may require significant cognitive skills.
"Understanding the social systems of parrots is critical to understanding social processes, such as vocal learning and the spread of behaviors, and can also give us greater insight into how social and cognitive complexity evolved in other species," explained lead author Elizabeth Hobson, a postdoctoral fellow at the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis.
"Many parrot species are threatened or endangered and increased understanding of how parrots structure their social interactions could also improve our ability to manage these populations," Hobson added.

National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis (NIMBioS). (2014, September 17). Being social: Learning from the behavior of birds. ScienceDaily. Retrieved March 4, 2015 from Being social: Learning from the behavior of birds -- ScienceDaily

Willy said:

Jasper, I am interested in the claim that parrots have the intelligence of a five-year-old human. To me, an adult bird in its natural environment would be able to survive, whereas a five-year-old human in its natural environment could not. It puzzles me that one can be judged against the other. Do you know of a website that has scientific or field documentation I can read that supports the claim?
As for horse manure, all dogs seem to like a nibble of the stuff. Maybe there is something in it that is good for them. I would think the only problem with it is that people fill their animals with all kinds of drugs nowadays and that turns an innocuous nibble to unhealthy.

Click to expand...

A study into whether grey parrots understand the notion of sharing suggests that they can learn the benefits of reciprocity. The research involved a grey parrot called Griffin, who consistently favored the option of 'sharing' with two different human partners.

Griffin was presented with a choice of four different coloured cups. A green cup (the sharing option) meant he and his partner each got treats. A pink cup represented the selfish choice as only Griffin got a treat, an orange cup was the giving option as only his partner got a treat, and a violet cup denoted the spiteful selection as no one got treats.
With few exceptions he consistently favoured green for each human partner, indicating he understood the benefits of choosing the 'sharing' option.
The results of this study, carried out by Dr Franck Péron, from the School of Life Sciences, University of Lincoln, UK, with colleagues at Harvard University and Brandeis University, US, have now been published in the journal Animal Cognition.
The question under investigation was whether Griffin would learn the human partner's actions, understand that the human was replicating his own behaviour by acting in a reciprocal manner, and that by choosing the green (sharing) cup, he could maximize the overall payoff, because then each would receive a reward on each turn.
It followed a previous study conducted by the same team, which focused on grey parrots and used a similar token-based system, demonstrating a limited understanding of reciprocity in grey parrots.
When the pairs involved several different human-parrot pairings with each human playing a specific role, such as being selfish, giving, or copying the bird's behaviour, birds' responses only tended towards consistency with human behaviour.
It was theorised that the birds' inability to understand the copycat condition fully -- that they could potentially maximize reward by choosing to share -- was a consequence of their viewing the copycat's behaviour as erratic, compared with the consistently selfish or giving humans and therefore not realising that they were being mirrored.
Dr Péron said: "This follow-up experiment has shown that at least one grey parrot -- the dominant in this case -- responded in a manner suggesting that he deduced the appropriate eventualities.
"With few exceptions, Griffin chose the green sharing cup. He seemed to understand the parameters of the study; that is, that each person was mirroring Griffin's own behavior and not acting erratically. Although choosing pink (selfish) would have presented the same immediate reward as choosing green (sharing), Griffin did not act in that manner. He seemed to figure out fairly quickly that his choice of pink meant that he would miss a reward when the human subsequently made the choice."
A possible explanation for Griffin's behavior may be derived from two papers on primates, which argue that various forms of reciprocal behavior in non-human primates can be explained as either a balancing act between fairness and empathy, or fairness and welfare.
The basic idea in both papers is that the choice of group members to reciprocate in kind derives from the interplay among selfishness, some level of concern for the well-being of others, and some sense of fairness.

University of Lincoln. (2014, February 25). Reciprocity and parrots: Griffin the grey parrot appears to understand benefits of sharing, study suggests. ScienceDaily. Retrieved March 3, 2015 from Reciprocity and parrots: Griffin the grey parrot appears to understand benefits of sharing, study suggests -- ScienceDaily

miloslave said:

Welcome Willy!

What Jasper referred to is the intellectual ability the African grey has...ability to learn and understand is on par with that of a five year old human child. If you would like to see a very good example on this,
research Dr. Irene Pepperberg and Alex. It will blow your mind!

They also have the emotional capacity of a two year old human child.

As far as food is concerned, Jasper is correct, because there is not a giant bowl of sunflower seeds in the forest, they have to eat a variety of foods in order get sufficiently fed, correct?

I believe with the knowledge we gained through people who has done the research, we have the responsibility to provide the best for our parrots, as we (humans) took them from their natural home, and with that took away their ability to provide for themselves, it is our duty to do the best we can to provide what they lost to them.

Knowing that a sunflower seed diet will cause fatty liver disease amongst others, providing that as its main food source would be very irresponsible for example.

I know by doing some research you will be able to provide a more balanced diet to this grey. Way to go on reaching out and researching to get the information needed! [emoji4]

Click to expand...

Here's a research study for those wanting to verify accuracy of the intelligence level of a Grey...
Alex, the world renowned African Grey parrot made famous by the ground-breaking cognition and communication research conducted by Brandeis scientist Irene Pepperberg, Ph.D., died at the age of 31 on September 6, 2007.

Dr. Pepperberg’s pioneering research resulted in Alex learning elements of English speech to identify 50 different objects, 7 colors, 5 shapes, quantities up to and including 6 and a zero-like concept. He used phrases such as “I want X” and “Wanna go Y”, where X and Y were appropriate object and location labels. He acquired concepts of categories, bigger and smaller, same-different, and absence. Alex combined his labels to identify, request, refuse, and categorize more than 100 different items demonstrating a level and scope of cognitive abilities never expected in an avian species.
Pepperberg says that Alex showed the emotional equivalent of a 2 year-old child and intellectual equivalent of a 5 year-old.
Her research with Alex shattered the generally held notion that parrots are only capable of mindless vocal mimicry.
In 1973, Dr. Pepperberg was working on her doctoral thesis in theoretical chemistry at Harvard University when she watched Nova programs on signing chimps, dolphin communication and, most notably, on why birds sing. She realized that the fields of avian cognition and communication were not only of personal interest to her but relatively uncharted territory. When she finished her thesis, she left the field of chemistry to pursue a new direction—to explore the avian brain.
She decided to conduct her research with an African Grey parrot. In order to assure she was working with a bird representative of its species, she asked the shop owner to randomly choose any African Grey from his collection. It was Alex. And so the one-year old Alex, his name an acronym for the research project, Avian Learning EXperiment, became an integral part of Pepperberg’s life and the pioneering studies she was about to embark upon.
Over the course of 30 years of research, Dr. Pepperberg and Alex revolutionized the notions of how birds think and communicate. What Alex taught Dr. Pepperberg about cognition and communication has been applied to therapies to help children with learning disabilities. Alex’s learning process is based on the rival-model technique in which two humans demonstrate to the bird what is to be learned.
Dr. Pepperberg will continue her innovative research program with Griffin and Arthur, two other young African Grey parrots who have been a part of the ongoing research program.
Alex has left a significant legacy—not only have he and Dr. Pepperberg and their landmark experiments in modern comparative psychology changed our views of the capabilities of avian minds, but they have forever changed our perception of the term “bird brains.”

Brandeis University. (2007, September 12). Alex, The Renowned African Grey Parrot, Dies At 31. ScienceDaily. Retrieved March 4, 2015 from Alex, The Renowned African Grey Parrot, Dies At 31 -- ScienceDaily