New member, new CAG, Warning-Long post

I apologize for what I know will be a lengthy post with many questions and topics mixed up. I hoped that with my first post I should give some background of myself, the bird, and the questions because the biggest question is also what order to work on the issues.

For myself, I had a double yellow amazon for many years as a child. It was back around 1978 when purchased and was wild caught. However, we got lucky and it had little fear, yet also not overly aggressive. It would approach the front of the cage and growl. However, once home I was the first to approach it with my hand. It grabbed a finger, bit down but no blood drawn, growled loudly, then looked up at me and the growl whimpered away. Within a month it had the run of the house, would follow me around, fly off his cage onto me even if I was napping on the couch, and chased our sheltie all over. It never did learn to step up from the cage, but didn't run or resist either, it just took two hands. When off cage it would step up. Needless to say, when I joined the Navy in 1985 it didn't want to let others take it off the cage, it stopped roaming the house, started to bite, and when the first signs of plucking started my parents decided to re-home it before it got worse with the "attention giver" gone. While in the Navy, just for fun, I also took a part-time job at a local pet store which sold large birds. I was hired due to my marine and reef knowledge, but was called on to help some with the birds as needed simply because I wasn't deathly afraid of them.

So, I've long wanted another. We have a very old labrador, and decided once gone there would be no more dogs and planned on a bird sometime between then and retirement about 7-8 years away. Wellll, stopping at a local store that, for the large birds anyway, are mostly surrender/rehomes we fell in love with an 11 year old CAG and brought her home (no DNA test, so is based on name only). This was three weeks ago.

Notes from the previous parents: Does not step up, hates water, prefers men. Further discussion a few days later we were told she was mostly allowed to come and go from inside to her cage-top perch at will, but rarely handled. Thu starts the questions

I'm the male. In her cage she is a lover. I can pet, scratch, or even wrap my hand around her entire head. She will usually move toward me at every opportunity. She gets grumpy in the evenings at times, so when I see the eyes pin I just leave her alone. When trying to get her to step up she grabs a finger, raises it, and sticks her head back under my hand. Coaxing with treats haven't helped yet, but still working on sorting out favorites. If I put a second arm in she knows what I'm doing and runs. I can get ahold of her and eventually get one foot at a time. She throws a fit but hasn't bitten down. Once out and I'm on the floor with her she steps up and ladders just fine. It has been a battle preventing her from the shoulder but she seems to be getting the hint on that now as well. So, should I even be pulling her out, or just give it more time until she does step up before pulling her out. On the SIDE of the cage it's the same. If she gets to the TOP of the cage she gets aggressive and will strike like a snake and will draw blood.

Another issue is the "prefers men". Unfortunately, other than other issues it is bonding with me quickly. I'm not only a male, but also the one in the house most comfortable. My wife has never owned or handled a large bird so she is hesitant on top of it. Even in the cage Sophie will snap at her. So far we have started rolling the cage to where my wife is sitting when possible, other than if I'm "trying" to get a step-up my wife provides all treats, feeds, waters, and is the one to uncover the cage and say good morning. She will now get a little beak or head rub when providing a treat, as long as she doesn't reach out, so we may have some progress. If I am present the bird looks at me, the eyes pin, and I have to warn my wife. She says me watching makes her nervous as well so when contact is attempted I will try to stay away The other day I let the bird just explore, she walked up to the couch, reached up and bit my wife's elbow that was in reach.

So, in a nutshell, we have inability to step up or remove from cage, cage top aggression, and a single person bonding issue. My biggest concern is if I spend a lot of time working on step-up our bonding will continue and make "prefers male" a larger one. While I'm sure we can work on all to some degree, we aren't sure of the winding paths to get there. The store is extremely helpful and friendly, but always busy and they have limited time.

In the meantime, Sophie has a HUGE vocabulary and is endless entertainment and also picks up new words and noises almost effortlessly at times. My old Amazon only learned a couple words, but I loved him because he was just a friendly, noisy clown

Again, sorry for the length. I'm sure much of these will be more appropriate as individual questions once I can figure out where to go next.

You didn't mention but how long have you had Sophie???

Have you trying using perches to step up? You can use two perches to practice stepping up back and fourth. Same with being on top of the cage, use the perch, get a eye or below level stand to work with the Sophie. Since she is more attached to you at the moment, if you can work with her first to get her comfortable doing the stuffs that she does. Then let your wife work with her one on one in a neutral setting area on her own. Have you been using treats to train her?

Thanks!

We've only had her three weeks now. We initially had a very tall corner cage. The depth of it, combined with a small door, I couldn't even reach her in the back of the cage. Once on top I couldn't come close to reaching much past the edge. We got yet another cage a few days ago. It's almost the same interior space, but wider and shorter instead of a corner cage and she is below eye level on this new one (Well, eye to eye when she's up there). Still shows aggression but not as much. I also did purchase a large dowel and cut it short enough to use. If it enters the cage at all she runs to the corner and screams and so far the only thing I can call fear from her, so I didn't try that again.

Hi there Scooter and Sophie, and welcome to the forums.

GREAT introduction, please don't apologize for anything! Firstly, THANK YOU for your service!!

Congratulations on your new family member, Sophie!

Mikey's given you some great pointers with the stick training! Please keep us posted of progress made, and please never hesitate to ask more questions.

Since you've only had her for 3 weeks, it's still rather early yet. Have you watched some videos on stick clicker training? It would be very helpful. They're usually afraid of a stick that's pointing at them. You just have to get them to adjust to the idea of stepping up onto a stick.

Here's a video! Stick Target Training!!

[ame="https://youtu.be/a6iRRum5lPU"]https://youtu.be/a6iRRum5lPU[/ame]

No, I'll watch that and start looking for more. Also, you stated three weeks is rather early still. should I even be TRYING to remove her from the cage yet, even though she seems fine once she's out or off of it, or is it counter-productive at this point and for now just keep giving her interaction or in-cage loving she obviously enjoys and just offer my hand or arm and leave it to her for now? Maybe just stick with some coaxing via-treat? She doesn't bite, but she throws quite the fuss when I get ahold of her and patiently wait for one foot at a time.

I haven't tried a perch while she's on top yet and that may not freak her out as badly up top where I can keep it fully perpendicular to her so nothing that looks like pointing getting it in the door.

You don't have to remove her from the cage no, if she's comfortable on coming out to the top on her own, then let her. It's easier when they're willing to do it on their own so I would just be patient with her. Watch the video above that I posted, maybe that would help you understand a bit more on how to target train.

The place we got her from had some DVDs on clicker training I noticed in their book rack and will get one of those as well

Thanks again! Since she is SOOO good away from the cage it has been tempting to force her thinking that once away from it and practicing stepping up maybe it would eventually carry over. Other than not stepping up she seems fine in the cage as well and will come out with no problem on her own if it's just to head up top My own fear is going backwards by prying her out/off the cage when she has spent 11 years staying there.

Here's Sophie back on day 2 in our home:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2mqLdVnSYY&feature=youtu.be"]IMG 01811 - YouTube[/ame]

She's quite the talker!!! Just keep working with her, she'll reach the conclusion eventually.

It's been a bit, so just some good updates!!!

I haven't yet looked much into clicker training, but it's still on the list and hopefully keep moving forward. I've had some health issues and simply put it off a bit out of laziness. However, the bird we were first told "Doesn't step up" now does it almost without fail If out of the cage, or even on it, she steps up. If in the cage she's about 80% but also doesn't fuss if I just reach in with two hands and take her out. I now have the opposite problem!!! If I just walk by and pick her up for a bit of some petting and feather ruffling she won't get back off my hand and back to a perch without prodding and just stares at me, lol.

She is also slowly improving on her dislike of water. We haven't sprayed her as much as we should or would like yet, but she no longer screams and only tries her best to avoid.

She is also making some progress with my wife. My wife is still the only treat giver, as well as uncovers her each morning and gets her happy sound. The bird will now let her rub her beak. If out of the cage she will step up some onto a perch for her. I can also pass the bird to her without issue most times. However, the bird won't yet allow her to touch her much otherwise without trying to bite. I've also noticed that while the bird allows me to do pretty much anything I can be giving her some love and attention, scratching her while in the cage or on a perch, and she loves it but if my wife walks into the room the bird will nip at ME!! Like, "Make her go away, this is MY time!". LOL, we're getting there though, so not going to argue with progress even if the relationship between them is important to me.

We also think her previous owners watched a lot of football. Her reactions seem to appropriate for announcer or crowd noise. It may be wishful thinking, but her "Woo Hoo", and "Uh OH!", always seem to match whatever just happened.

She's also spending more and more time in evenings where I'm just watching TV, sitting breast down right on my chest and just staring at me while I pet her for a couple hours. She has also learned to stay off my shoulder without an argument about it.

Her vocabulary seemed huge as it was but also seems to expand daily. With the illness I'm just getting over though she coughs all day so if she's ever ill herself I don't know how I will know!

Thanks for all the past input, ideas, and advice along with all the other posts by others I get to read and learn

I've had Tusk for 12 years... bathed him once a week for all those years. He never has liked it. Probably never will. He does it anyway, and I don't put up with biting... Doesn't mean he won't try to bluff me out of a bath. Somewhere there's a video of a rather emphatic I'm not taking a bath...

So, for most CAGS that stuff's pretty normal.

Tusk watches Hockey... seems to like watching people get slammed into the boards the best. He yells GOOOOAAALLLL! if he hears the buzzer go off...

He also does the Blackhawks goal scoring song... I'm thinking I'll videotape it this year at Stanley Cup time, and send a copy to the Team PR People...

They also really seem to like cartoons, by the way.

I haven't yet looked much into clicker training, but it's still on the list and hopefully keep moving forward. I've had some health issues and simply put it off a bit out of laziness. However, the bird we were first told "Doesn't step up" now does it almost without fail If out of the cage, or even on it, she steps up. If in the cage she's about 80% but also doesn't fuss if I just reach in with two hands and take her out. I now have the opposite problem!!! If I just walk by and pick her up for a bit of some petting and feather ruffling she won't get back off my hand and back to a perch without prodding and just stares at me, lol.

REMEMBER WHEN I SAID CAGS GET HELD ON THEIR OWN TERMS?! THAT'S A CLASSIC EXAMPLE.

She is also making some progress with my wife. My wife is still the only treat giver, as well as uncovers her each morning and gets her happy sound. The bird will now let her rub her beak. If out of the cage she will step up some onto a perch for her. I can also pass the bird to her without issue most times. However, the bird won't yet allow her to touch her much otherwise without trying to bite.

THAT'S FAIRLY NORMAL. I HAVEN'T DECIDED IT'S OKAY FOR YOU TO DO THAT YET...

I've also noticed that while the bird allows me to do pretty much anything I can be giving her some love and attention, scratching her while in the cage or on a perch, and she loves it but if my wife walks into the room the bird will nip at ME!! Like, "Make her go away, this is MY time!". LOL, we're getting there though, so not going to argue with progress even if the relationship between them is important to me.

IT COULD BE THAT... BUT MORE LIKELY IT'S "NOT IN FRONT OF HER. PRETEND I'M NOT THAT FRIENDLY. I DON'T WANT HER TO THINK I'M UP FOR THIS SORT OF STUFF... SHE NEEDS TO FEAR ME!"

[/QUOTE]

LOL, thanks! The "From the bird's head" responses are priceless! I really laughed at the last one! Good input though, even if so entertaining, just like the feathered character she is

ScooterV said:

LOL, thanks! The "From the bird's head" responses are priceless! I really laughed at the last one! Good input though, even if so entertaining, just like the feathered character she is

Click to expand...

Alex used to listen and follow orders from Dr. Pepperburg...

BUT,

HE ORDERED GRAD STUDENTS AROUND AS IF THEY WERE HIS PERSONAL SLAVES...

SLAVES NEED TO KNOW THEIR PLACE!

Birdman666 said:

They also really seem to like cartoons, by the way.

Click to expand...

She's a Sponge Bob freak. She was whistling the tune even when we got her, so we stuck with it and put it on when needed. Even when off she has many conversations with Squidward.

:11:Spongebob! Oh, the horror! :11:

Spongebob kills brain cells you know...

Oddly enough mine are also fascinated by the tellytubies... especially the baby in the sun. My zons eyes flash and talk back to the baby in the sun making noises at them...

A real live baby?! Not so much...

Long time without any updates. I've been busy and free time spent with the little feathered friend She has SO settled and changed. For me, I can handle her pretty much any way, any time. If we take her down from the cage she follows me wherever I go. It has taken a lot more patience, but she is bonding with the wife well now. She won't step up for her from the cage, but once away she is fine. We also have her pretty well adjusted to water with frequent sprays and I've taken her into the shower a few times as well. In the shower she still tries to get away, but doesn't fight too much, and once away from the water asks "Whatcha doing?!?!". I swear they know exactly what they are saying!!! Since she steps up so well she has also had her cage restriction unless stepping up ban lifted and as long as we are home she can come in and out to the top at will. Hoping she doesn't get a habit of leaving the cage though unless we take her down. So far, no issue.

Anyway, for possibly bad news and hope for some input We got Sophie around November 23rd. By December 22nd I had already had a pretty continual cough for over a week and made my first Dr. visit. It got so bad I ended up with a hospital stay as well. Multiple doctors and nothing has been figured out, other than the quite obvious I'm a smoker so it's making things worse even while all agreed it's not the likely root cause. I've spiked a fever a few times, three different antibiotics. The cough HAS improved with over a month of no smoking, but still bad.

Then stress hit I also switched doctors. Same network but I had been on a waiting list for the one I wanted close to home. Anyway, I mentioned the new bird to the first one and that was the end of it. The new doctor doesn't like how the dates add up and concerned about allergy triggered issues. It was put on the possible list if no improvements on my next follow up. Well, I dug through boxes to find my old medical records from an allergist as a child of 11 way back in 1978. I was on shots for 5 or 6 years as well but spent my entire life believing I was allergic only too grasses and weeds. The records, and a letter to my then primary care clearly states a reaction to feathers and advise to even avoid feather pillows. Yet, my amazon I had as a teen didn't cause any issues, at least that I noticed.

Obviously, a CAG would be more irritating with all the powder/dust and it's now on top of 30 years of smoking damage.

Has anyone else had allergy issues, specifically respiratory related? My question is what to ask, and what to look for. I need to get the next appt. scheduled. I did e-mail him on my discovery of the old tests and he obviously mentioned referring back to an allergist again, and possibly some blood test that "may" give some indication while we wait. I also have a work trip the first week of May and being away a week may be a good test. I'm worried about having to give up Sophie, and worse that she's now so attached and just part of me, but if I must I'm MORE worried about how to find a home I'M confident will love her just as much

I guess the health questions could be a new post of it's own, but I wanted to share how awesome she is now even more

Awesome thread, just saw it.

I can say as a new owner of a CAG, Perjo is 18 weeks (have had her one month) it is so true they get held on their own terms. I live alone, and can handle Perjo with no problems all day every day (she's unusually cuddly for this breed from what I can tell) she does have moments when she isn't happy about the handling situation, teeny tiny nips at my hand. She doesn't bite me, she's learned and I don't think she really intends to either. But she does let me know when she thinks she is the boss.

I might open up my own recording studio with the way her and I communicate everyday, we've invented completely new sounds IMO, it's hilarious and fun.