NEED HELP!! agressive bird!

Hi,

I got a Congo African Grey last Sunday and have now had him 7 days, he's 2 years old a have had one set of previous owners who raised him from hatch. He was bonded with the husband of the couple we bought him from, he didn't like any other members of their family as they didn't socialise with him.

The first day we brought him back he was unhappy about being in his carrier but came out without any issues and found his food and water etc and was happy to take food from my hand through the cage bars.

The second day he appeared to be settling in very well so I let him come out for what i planned to be a few hours but instead he wouldn't go back in so, he slept on top of his cage. again he was happy to take foods and some sunflower seeds from my hands usually being gentle about it. if he lunged for the food slightly then i will normally pull my hand away, say gentle and give it too him again and he will take it gently. That night he was also happy to climb on my legs and sit there for an hour.

The third day I let him out and this time started touch training him, which worked perfectly and got him into his cage quite happily. he now also mimics the sound of the clicker. again he sat on my legs and took food and treats happily.

The rest of the week there were a few bites, especially on a day where he was hungry because i tried training before his T because i thought he might have more incentive to get the treats, instead lunging for the treats and biting my fingers.

he seems territorial over his cage, when you put your hand on his cage for whatever reason he will rush over to try and bite, he will do it quick enough that he doesn't care if he slips of he perch.

Yesterday i was cleaning a bar of his cage while he was sat on the door next to me and he suddenly jumped off clamped his beak onto my finger and wudn't let go, so naturally i moved my hand to get him off, which worked he flew off my finger and wasn't on me for more that a second but obviously still hurt. a few hours later he did it again.

The biting i can take, i don't mind that he's drawn blood every time. Its the fact that he clamped on and hard. I havn't exactly felt like i have a connection with him all week and he sort of just feels like a bird in my room as apose to my other 8 birds which feels like my birds.

Im very very close to getting rid of him because of this and the clamping on pushed it over the line, i simply cant trust him and now my hand shakes slightly when i go to feed him.

A lot of the time it seems like there's a look that makes it seems like he's not scared, territorial but that he is just being aggressive for the sheer hell of it.

He has more that enough toys to chew and interact with, he has also taken a shining to the cardboard toilet roll holders and uses them as foot toys.

i need some advice on a few things,

one: can anyone give me some very specific advice about how to stop the biting. Im still doing touch training but getting him to go round my hand with it is hard because he wont always go onto my bed or any other surface with enough space. He also wont step onto any of his perches when im holding them.


two: anyone had any experience of the feeling like he's not the bird for me? Will this get better when he becomes more affectionate?

He gets plenty of sleep, has plenty of toys, i feed him vegetables and pellets and have made him some birdie bread which he absolutely loves. I use sunflower seeds as training treats.

I know i've only had him a week and it takes time but its getting too me. the clamping did freak me out but with my other 8 birds i knew within hours that they were my birds.

I know im not going to get a bond woth him or get him to step up any time soon, im fully aware it all takes time but i would like a bird that doesnt bite and seem to do it simply for the fun of it. Im trying my best to give him the best life possible and as im sure some of you can relate - being bitten after doing your best is a big kick in the teeth

Please help!!! thanks in advance if you need any more info please ask! thanks!

aggression

Honestly, I think the best advice you can get right now, is to try and be patient. A week is no time at all, birds are incredibly long lived species, and African Greys especially are *very* emotional birds. He was just removed from the only thing he had ever known, and the person he had bonded with. It's going to take time, possibly a long time for him to really bond with you.

Also, what are you expecting exactly when you say affection in regards to him? I only
ask because while they are certainly affectionate in their way, greys are not known for being very cuddly. Many don't even really like being pet outside of the quick head scratch here and there. Not to say that is the rule, my CAG snuggles more than my MSC2, but it's an expectation that can easily end in disappointment.

You really have to be willing to do things on his terms, and if he feels like you are being to pushy with him, it could end up setting progress back instead.

As long as you are willing to give him the time, and patience, he will come around. But you have to remember, Greys can live as long as us, they have the intellect of a 3 year old, and take a long time to adjust to change, and switching homes was already a MASSIVE change.

Hi thanks for your reply,

i know he needs time and its going to take a long time to build a bond with him. At the moment though, stopping the biting outside of the cage would brilliant or at least lowering the amount of biting.

It would be absolutely brilliant if he acted like he does when he has just woken up, where you can touch his cage as much as you like and he doesn't care a bit.

In terms of the affection, i know their not known for being cuddly but if he does turn into a cuddly boy then that's brilliant. If not then a companion that will sit near me happily while i do something on my laptop or sit and watch tv with me.

and im aware of their life span, im 19 and he is 2 so, i expect/hope he'll outlive me. Im more than willing to spend all the time i can with him and put the effort in.

PS i've also just found out that he's a snobby parrot - i put pellets in his bowl and he said "err, whats this?"

I don't know what type of pellets you are trying, but I've had particularly good success with my parrots switching over to Harrisons. Just in case he doesn't take to the ones you are trying, they really can be such bratty eaters!

As for the biting, the best thing to do is avoid situations that result in possible bites. What I mean by that, is figuring out what things happening in his environment that trigger biting, and altering the process enough so that it isn't an issue.

For example it sounds like he doesn't like the cage being cleaned, or maybe something you use to clean it (confetti freaks out with scrubbys). So, if you could put him on a stand in another area while you are cleaning, you can avoid that set of potential bites entirely.

I know how disheartening it can be when you get a grey with high hopes and you're met with a cold shoulder. A grey is very intelligent and they build strong bonds. It's like taking a toddler from all they've ever known and expecting them to not throw some sort of tantrum. It's going to come in one form or another.

I rehomed a grey of 29 years this year. It's very slow progress, but if you're in it for the long haul, it will be worth it with every baby step. Just have patience.

If you notice he's territorial of the cage, move him to a perch elsewhere or another room while you clean and situate everything in it. It also helps to train in a room away from the cage so they are more dependent and are pressured to trust more. My grey won't step up from his cage, but if he falls or flies somewhere, he already has a foot up waiting for me to save him when I get there. A little push helps sometimes.

Because my grey won't step up from the cage and he comes out as well, I've found if I put his favorite treat in his bowl or just inside his cage, and step back, he will go in. Not always, but for the most part. In the three months I've had him, he has only slept on top of his cage twice.

Another thing I've noticed is if he comes out any later than 5 pm, he resists going in. When it starts getting later and he goes in for a drink or dinner, I close his cage. They want to roost on top of their cages in the evening so they're at the best vantage point (feels safe) at night. Its easier to avoid the situation than to pressure a tired, cranky bird into his cage.

When he bites, try not to make a large deal of it (even though I know it hurts). Sometimes they do it for the reaction whether that's a yell, a mean tone of voice, watching you jump, or to make you leave them alone. Often times we can watch their bodies and eyes closely to anticipate a bite. I have yet to be bitten (though I'm sure it will come). I always go at his pace and I repeat regularly any routine or progress so he knows what I expect. They are very smart, and half the battle is not letting them outsmart you.

One, it's called target training, not touch training.



Two, avoid bites by not letting him out of his cage.

As mentioned, he's a long lived bird. Spending a little while locked in his cage isn't going to be harmful to him, if that time is spent productively with him.

So how do we go about that? Simple. Do target training through the cage bars! Teach him to target to an item from his perch, then teach him to target around the inside of the cage.

With the bars between you two, you can try providing a treat in such a way that he has to reach for it to eat it, but he can't bite you in the process. You can also try providing treats via a spoon, or having a dish inside the cage and merely dropping the treat inside the dish for him to eat. See where this is going????


Once you have him reliably targeting around the inside of his cage, then you can open his cage door and start targeting him around the outside and top of his cage. You can make this step even easier by attaching perches to the outside of his cage. Continue to target.

Once he's good at that, you can then try targeting to your hand, or to a perch not attached to his cage.



Also, try almonds (seems to be a favorite of greys?), walnuts, pecans and pine nuts as treats. Maybe even some dried fruit? Just make sure that the reward is small and he can eat it within a few seconds!

thank you for the responces,
He is now on harrisons pellets which he took to without a care and seems to prefer them to his vegtables most of the time.

Before we got him however he was in a cage that was too small and being fed vegtables, an egg mix, water vitamins & sunflower seed mix that is 80% sunflower seeds. however he took to his new diet very well, i did the change a small amount each day and he seems very happy with it.

Im trying but at the moment im finding it hard to find the source of the biting when he is out of his cage, it seems to be that the clamping on was because i was adjusting a perch in his cage. the wing nut has come slightly loose so the perch was sliiping down the bars, so i just tightened it up.

He is fine with me cleaning the cage and reaching inside to remove anything on top of the grates. I will have to keep a very close eye out for whats causing it. I try my best to watch for his body language as well and do back off if his eyes start pinning etc

Once i have had the change to build him a couple of stands then i will try and get him into another room, but first i have to get him on the perch and be happy being moved away and with me holding the perch. Also i did have it in my head that for the first few times out of my room i wanted him to be in a harness, this is simply because the rooms downstairs have alot of chana & glass ornements. So the last thing i want is for him to fly onto the shelves knock things about and hurt himself.

The other worry is that im gonig to try and take him into the next room along and he's going to fly off down the stairs and into the other ornement filled rooms.

I've tried the treats in the bowl but they didnt work, he didnt seem the least bit interested however that was on his frist night out so he could have just been worried or something.

Currently since i get home from work at 6pm he gets let out at about 6:30pm to 7pm depending on letting my other birds out. i really would like to be able to get him into another room so that i can just let my cockatiels have their ususal out time again.

Yes i understand the feeling safe on top of his cage, thats why i placed what i thought wwas going to be his main perch as high as i could, thats the perch he sleeps on.

I try my best not to react to a bite but its extremly hard for me.

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Okay well i call it touch training because the first time i was made aware of it, it wasd referred to as touch training. but he is touching the target so same difference. Everyone knew what i meant.

He is doing pretty well with the touch training outside of his cage which normally takes place on his cage and around the top as he mostly refuses to fly onto my bed or anywhere else unless something spooks him. He can be very stubborn sometimes and just loose interest but eventually comes around. I will try to touch train in his cage more and i will try the different treats as i struggle thinking of things to give as treats.

thank you all.

I have very little experience with birds. In fact, my only experience is with Tsali, my CAG who is just over 1 1/2 years old. We have interacted with him since from a few weeks after he hatched until it was time for him to come home. Pardon the pun, but he is a funny bird - full of unexpected behavior (well, unexpected to me).

I agree with what the other posters have said, time and patience, a lot of both, target training with lots of treats and above all keeping his environment one where he feels safe.

Good luck!

I was glad to see a CAG get into a home, they are a treasure but can be problematic when traumatized. I've rehabilitated some CAGs and this is what I've learned:

Move slowly. I'd suggest you pull back from training. Give it a few weeks, look for signs that he is ready for interaction. Perhaps a bent over head for a neck scratch or accepting treats nice,y, moving in to step up without being prompted. These are all signs the bird is feeling comfortable enough. He misses his family, even if it wasn't perfect, it's what he knew. He now has a trust issue so take time to rebuild.

Greys usually aren't very hands on. Some won't even want to ever step up but will happily chatter and whistle and play. It has to be ok if that is how they want to be, not all birds become very hand tame.

If he gets off the cage, use a stick to have him step up, not your hand.

Talk, talk a lot to your grey. They love chatter. They even talk in context.

When you break through I imagine your grey will become amazing. One o f the worst things to do, in my opinion, at this stage would be to give up and rehome at this early stage. It will further confuse him.

Check out the grey forum and read through for tips.

Check out YouTube for counsel, lots of good advice there.

While you've had lots of hurt, you've done a heap of good by switching the foods and taking him in. I hope all goes well with you!

Once i have had the change to build him a couple of stands then i will try and get him into another room, but first i have to get him on the perch and be happy being moved away and with me holding the perch.

With a bird that is not comfortable being away from their cage, I honestly don't recommend removing them from their cage!

If you want to move them to another room, and the cage is small enough to do so, then take the bird and cage to the other room! Or, teaching them to step up onto a stand that can be wheeled from room to room.

Trust should never be built on fear. Taking a bird away from their cage and into another room where they are uncomfortable can result in problems at the cage.


I've tried the treats in the bowl but they didnt work, he didnt seem the least bit interested however that was on his frist night out so he could have just been worried or something.

Try again. Maybe try different treats, too?


I try my best not to react to a bite but its extremly hard for me.

Why are you ignoring his bites? He's trying to tell you something. I know it may be difficult, but try harder to read his body language so you can avoid getting bitten.

If he bites you and he's on you, get him off! Then try to think of what lead up to the bite. If he's not on you, but he's biting you, then gently pry his beak off!

Allowing him to bite is only teaching him that he needs to bite in order to communicate with you. If you can avoid the bites, then you can avoid teaching him that he needs to bite. (a lesson he already has learned... but he can unlearn it!)


Okay well i call it touch training because the first time i was made aware of it, it wasd referred to as touch training. but he is touching the target so same difference. Everyone knew what i meant.

I'm not fond of the people who decided to call it "touch training" instead of target training. It's a sales tactic. They are sales people. The real trainers call it target training. I'm sorry you came across their info first, even if not from these sales people directly. Great advice doesn't cost a fortune! (my apologies, but they really do get on my nerves sometimes!)


He is doing pretty well with the touch training outside of his cage which normally takes place on his cage and around the top as he mostly refuses to fly onto my bed or anywhere else unless something spooks him. He can be very stubborn sometimes and just loose interest but eventually comes around. I will try to touch train in his cage more and i will try the different treats as i struggle thinking of things to give as treats.

Is he being stubborn? Or is he just bored of the treats or tired? Or not interested in working right now?




Barbara Heidenreich has a great video of working with rescued and rehomed birds! Worth viewing!

Webinar Recording: Training Rescued and/or Re-Homed Parrots | InstantPresenter Web Conferencing, Video Conferencing and Webinar Service

In my limited experience of owning a young CAG it sounds like you may be trying to do too much too quickly with your bird.

Maybe just let the bird be the bird for a couple weeks, keep them entertained, keep enough toys and challenges in the cage and let the bird get comfortable with where it is at and your routine of coming and going. Especially considering this bird have previous owners with previous habits and routine.

As others have mentioned a week is not enough time for an older CAG to adjust to everything new. I would back off the training for now and focus on developing a routine that you and your bird are comfortable with. CAGS are highly intelligent and sensitive, it may just be a matter of time and building a bond.

Every bird and every human are individuals, not all training methods work for all birds or all people.

I think I may be becoming the SURRENDER parront!

You'll get the best support and advice here! Enjoy, absorb, experiment!
But as time goes on, and *IF* everything's not as you hoped it would be... my advice. I have lessened my psychological and physical wounds over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed myself, poor inadequate being that I am. A lot of that has involved giving up on some desires/expectations. I surrendered. I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I don't scratch his head much, ever. I swallow my disappointment at having a pet that bites me and screams at me. I guess I'm saying that if it's okay with you, its okay. Don't do stuff that gets you bitten... take whatever ridiculous precautions needed. And in the end... give in to your obvious desire just to adore your little hellion. That's what I do. He's fully flighted, happy, and fearless. I adapt.
Good luck!

to MonicaMc,

Sorry what i meant is that he is comfortable sitting on my bed away from his cage but ive never tried to move him anywhere else in the house, im just assuming that for the first few times he's either going to be excited and want to have an explore or he is going to sh*t himself and fly back to his cage when i open the door.

the cage really isnt small enough to move at all its very big. Personally, i think moving him to the next room would be a good idea because of what other members have said and because theres no distractions, in this room he has other birds to listen to, toys, his cage etc so removing him may simply help him focus once he is comfortable.

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with the treats, at the moment i havn't needed too because he has gone in with the target training so far.

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i was going for the methood of if you ignore it he will see its no fun and doesnt get him what he wants. Why would he communicate by biting if it doesn't get him what he wants? although i realise since i naturally move or give a reaction its really not the best solution.

yesterday he bit be again, he didnt eat any of his vegetables, so i got them out of his food bowl and tried to give him to see if he just didnt like his bowl today, he took the first piece fine & ate it, chucked the second one so i tried the next one which he ate then, i tried to hand him the next one and he simply lunged and bite at my finger for a second or two, his eyes weren't pinning and were dilated how they normally are when he is happy and his feathers were slightly fluffed up, same as he is when he's happy.

so what can i do to stop the bites? any general methods?

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touch training, fair enough i know what you mean i tend to loose my **** whenever someone says ear gauging instead of stretching. I probably learnt it from birdtricks.com, which basically are just salesmen can tell by their sh*tty website & the fact that in their youtube videos they say alot but dont actually answer the questions.

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he is just being stubborn with the sunflower seeds if you wave a hand full in front of him he will eventually come, i tried the homemade birdie bread last night which he loves as a treat and it worked really well, still slightly stubborn but better. He could be not interested in working but he does look around alot and get distracted ( like i said another room would probably help once he is calm and happy in it)



to GaleriaGila;

personally i want a bird thats not going to hurt me and that i dont have to fight with EVERY SINGLE TIME he needs to go back in his cage. also i have other birds in my room so i cant leave him unattended so while i cant get him to step up and play nice to come downstairs with me im basically trapped in a room when i could be sitting elsewhere watching tv with him next to me nicely.

i'll be totally honest i love the rest of my birds i really do but at the moment because of the biting and agression i havn't become attatch to my CAG and im not going to spend my life unhappy with a bird when i know that theres probably someone who would be happy with him the way he is or have the knoweldge, experiance and tolerance to help him thruogh the agression etc.

as much as i dont sound it i am realistic about owning a bird and realise that no bird is perfect, that im going to get bit, im going to fight to get him in his cage at night and all the rest of ti BUT there has to be a good side too, where he's not a little **** towards me everyday.





and a side note for everyone else,

all i do with the target training is get him in and out of his cage, if i was at home all day i would just leave him to go in on his own but i work full time so i need to have hime back in his cage. im not trying to teach him anything other than follo this stick and you get a treat while wondering back to your cage for the night.

and i will admit yeturday he didnt go running to bite me everytime i was near the cage and today he has only done it a few times so seems to be relaxing slightly

Sounds like you need to start again your rushing things and expecting miracles which with greys they don't happen as Monica said he is already warning you before the bite and your ignoring that so he bites your forcing to many things on him far too quickly you have had him a week forget the target training for now and start building a bit of trust take your time and remember it's always on a greys terms if he dosant want to do something don't force him

Back wayyyyyy off. You're going far too fast for this poor bird. Put yourself in his position. You've just been ripped from the only family you've ever known and now you're expected to just love and adore the new person around? Yeah, no. Not gonna happen. If you keep going this way, you're going to wind up with a neurotic, badly adjusted, angry bird.

Birds take time. Lots and lots of time. I've been working with my amazon for years. Not days, not weeks, not months; literally years, and we still barely have a peace treaty going on. Now granted, that situation is different because I'm the intruder and the favorite person is still in the house, but that gives you an idea of how long it can take a bird to get comfortable with you. Spend time with him. Talk to him. Let him get comfortable with you. It's not going to be easy or quick, and you've probably made it harder for yourself by pushing him too far, too fast. Figure on a few months at best.

im not expecting him to love and adore me, what im wanting is for him to act how he now is starting to act, im obviously not explaining that bit right so im going to stop trying becuase the comments have now gone past helpful and gone into repeating and people getting annoyed for either my not explaing things correctly or not reading the posts properly or forming an opinion too soon, or one of a million lovely other negative reasons, which does annoy me so im sorry if thats rude or anything .

and im not going to stop with the target training to get him back into his cage because he doesn't go in any other way. ive had the chance now to try treats and things in his bowl and he doesn't care at all and wont go back in.

I would leave him out but i have to work and i have 8 other birds, so as unlikely as it may be its still a possibility that if i leave him out while im at work i'll come home to 8 dead birds and one smug looking African grey. im not willing to take that chance, however small you think it is.

im not trying to teach him to step up or do tricks or do anything other than go back in his cage, which with using the current treat, he is doing extremely well, without being stubborn or anything and seems rather happy.


simply put he has been acting how i'd like him too for the last two nights and im fully aware its probably going to take months at minimum to build a bond with him. as much as i like the idea of ramming a unicorns horn up some peoples rear end, i dont believe in magic.

thank you to the people who have commented, it has genuinely helped i really do appreciate your comments, thanks for taking the time!!

scoman123 said:

...i was going for the methood of if you ignore it he will see its no fun and doesnt get him what he wants. Why would he communicate by biting if it doesn't get him what he wants? although i realise since i naturally move or give a reaction its really not the best solution...

Click to expand...

Honestly, the whole "ignore the bite" tactic is just an exercise in unnecessary pain and bloodshed. You've heard the comparison of parrots to toddlers, yes? Well, consider just how you would react if a toddler just hauled off and cracked you one in the face. Of course you'd do something! Not out of anger (I would hope) but rather out of a genuine desire to teach said toddler better. You'd intercept his next attempt and teach him better ways to communicate.

Same thing when dealing with a parrot. Sometimes it's a matter of not knowing how much beak pressure is too much. Sometimes it's because the bird has been taught that biting is the only method of communication we humans understand. Or it may be something else altogether. But I can guarantee that you won't find any bird in nature just sitting there and taking the bite. Know what I mean?

I see you're getting a bit frustrated. Take a few deep breaths. I know this is a frustrating situation, but try to take a few steps back and view it with a clear head.

You've mentioned being unwilling to stop target training because it's the only way to get your grey inside the cage, and that you can't leave him out of the cage while you're gone. But you're misunderstanding what the last few posters are saying. What they are suggesting is that you refrain from taking him out of the cage for a bit. That you take that time to build a bond of trust with your grey, instead. I don't think you necessarily need to stop target training to achieve that end, however. As Monica had mentioned earlier, you can target train him from within the closed cage.

The idea is to create the most stress-free environment possible for your grey as he adapts to his new circumstances. Talking to him, bribing him with treats, and working on his target training by reaching your target stick between the bars of the cage rather than bringing him outside of his comfort zone.

This would only be a temporary measure. As time passes, he'll come to relax a bit around you and look forward to the hand that comes bearing treats. At that point, you could then move on to taking him outside of the cage. Work on the trust, first, then the dynamics of the relationship.

In the meantime, try not to lose hope. I know it's tough, but with patience, persistence and consistency, you'll get through to him.

Fair enough on the biting good points, so when he does bite what should i do about my reaction to the actual bite itself not the cause of the bite?

The frustration im unintentionally conveying is more to do with the posts and wording to be honest, im no where near as frustrated with my parrot as i was - ii think the main thing is the clamping on for no instantly visible reason pushed me over the edge a bit.

His behaviour has relaxed alot today and yesturday, i think he very much enjoyed that i was the one trying to mimic him and not the other way round.

I understnad now what you mean about bringing him out of the cage and touch training etc, perosnally id like to keep geting him out of his cage as he is seeming to calming down alot with me and getting him back in his cage is working alot easier with the birdie bread, mainly because he seems really happy to be out of his cage and have a play - he will hapily climb around his cage and go chew on the door frame or play with his toys then happily spend as much time as he can sitting on top of his cage all fluffed up with one foot im the air, beak grinding clicking away and making as much noise as possible - he does really seem to enjoy me makimg all the noises back to him as well and he always comes out as quick as he can to have a play - So it seems basically mean not to let him out when he seems to enjoy it so much.

He has also started folowing my up and down his cage while i clean out the other cages and bobbing his head with me and i know some people are going to moan but he like me stroking his beak and his feet through the bars, i havnt given up hope at all and the past two night have reallly made me think that he will eventually be a great companion - just the clamping on really turned my stomach but like i said its as if someflicked a switch and now happier birdy - obviously still going
To take lots and lots of time but its a start.

And when i was cleaning out his cage earlier i opened the door to just a bot and he poked his head through and said "boo!" - so i really dont think i could ever give up a parrot that does that, i mean... How could you?

OMG YES mimic your bird's noises.

My Perjo LOVES when I mimic her, it motivates her to keep going and come up with variants of routine clicks and whistles she has. We actually have our own little language of whistles and clicks that we understand what the other is conveying.

Just yesterday she started doing a whistle for the CHARGE! cheer you hear at sporting events. I used to do it to her a lot about a month or two ago, kind of forgot about it. All of a sudden she busts out the little prelude. She's doing it a few times now every time she goes into her vocalizing routine.

I have some videos my Perjo thread on page one of the Congo forum, check them out, you can hear us each mimicking the other in various videos.