My Congo (Ivan) is sick and needs our help!

twrigles05

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Sep 29, 2017
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Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I used to hang out at anafricangrey.ca forums but can no longer find the site, so I'm deciding to reach out here.

For the past ten months my 8 year old Congo is very ill, and he is asking for help. He is visibly showing signs of where he's hurting, and I've taken him to 3 different avian vets on 8 different occasions and NONE of them can confirm what is wrong with him so he is not getting specific treatment to help.

I'm desperate and hoping someone here may have ideas based on the symptoms I'm about to share.

Background: I adopted Ivan from a breeder when he was 4 months old. We had a great first 4 years together (no health issues). When Ivan was 4 years old, I had to send himto a local parrot sanctuary so I could go to college. He was at the sanctuary for 4 years while I was in college. I visited him each week at the sanctuary and maintained a strong relationship. Ten months ago (January 2017), I noticed he plucked his entire legs and vent area. This signaled to me that something was very wrong. He is not a plucker or neurotic in any way. I immediately took him to the vet and had him move in with me at home.

Old Personality: Prior his illness, Ivan is very playful and well socialized. He can handle different environments and changes. Loves people and attention. He flew around a lot, and would love to get into things he wasn't supposed to. He is smart and does 10 different tricks.

Personality Now: He is still social but a lot more quiet. He walks around the floor now and doesn't fly anymore. He is very docile as if hes in pain all the time.

Symptoms:
[
  • He drinks 32 oz (approx twice his body weight practically) in water every day
  • He plucks his vent (see attached pics)
  • He plucks his crop/neck area
  • His crop is always bulging
  • His poop is clear water liquid. It is NOT normal.
  • Excessive Polyuria/Polydipsia
  • Appetite is normal
  • NO weight change
  • Personality change (very quiet now, doesn't fly)
  • He seems Itchy


Like I said, the vets are stumped. We've done blood work, crop swabs, fecal cultures, checked for parasites, x-rays.

His blood results are good.

When I first took him from Zazus, he had a minor bacterial and yeast infection, so we cleared him of that. Here are some of the medicines we've tried with no improvement:

1) celebrex & gabapentin (antihistamine)
2) doxycycline (antibiotic)
3) vibramycin (antibiotic)
4) Metronidazole (antiparasite)
5) anti-fungals
6) anti-parasitics

The vets all seem to think it is most likely PDD that he got from the sanctuary, but I want to ask you guys if any of his symptoms sound similar to any you've ever seen?


Ivan has odd plucking patterns so I think he's asking for help. He's communicating to me that he is in pain and he needs my help! I don't know what could be wrong with him. Any ideas? Please check out the pics attached.

Thank you thank you! Any ideas or help would be very appreciated.

Kindly,
Tiffany
 

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Laylatoo

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Poor Ivan. I’m not much help but I am also dealing with a mystery illness with my girl Layla. She acts itchy and frantically plucks pin feathers only. Her bloodwork and cultures are always perfect. They tested her for bornavirus and that came back negative. She improved a bunch in the last month and only occasionally plucks pin feathers now. She also went from playful and lively to quiet and lethargic. She lost a ton of weight because she had zero appetite while her feathers were bothering her. She now has her appetite back and plays more. The vet said our next step would be X-rays with sedation. I’d recommend you proceed with X-rays and a borna virus test if you haven’t yet and maybe also test for heavy metal toxicity??? I know how heartbreaking it is to not have answers and I wish you the best of luck figuring this out!

You could also try a fleece collar if Ivan tolerate it. Won’t solve the underlying problem of course but would give his feathers a break from his beak.
 

Kiwibird

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Jul 12, 2012
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I'm sorry Ivan is sick and his vets have no idea what is happening. I am assuming he's already been tested for heavy metal poisoning (it's more common in parrots than you might think), but if he hasn't it needs to be ruled out. Has he been tested for avian diabetes? It is somewhat uncommon, but all the symptoms seem to be there- excessive thirst and urine, itchy skin (which can make a bird pluck seeking relief), lethargy... Food allergies are another possible culprit. What kind of food is he eating? One more thing, when he poops, is his food fully digested or is there chunks of undigested food?
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Greetings and welcome to the forums. I am sorry your initial post is one of chronic illness and hope Ivan can be restored to health or at least well managed and comfortable.

I have not had a parrot with these symptoms so cannot contribute relevant opinion.

Just want to confirm Ivan's three vets are "avian certified?" Many individuals will practice exotic and avian medicine, yet there is a threshold to be considered "certified" or ABVP Diplomate. Not casting aspersions, but Ivan's case is certainly well off the bell-curve of case management and requires expert intervention.

Voracious consumption of water seems a clue, as does the bulging crop. What is his primary diet?

Hopefully multiple members can offer valuable insight. Found this lengthy article that may assist: http://www.mit.edu/~rei/birds-pdd.html
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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Apr 14, 2015
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And a Normal Grey Cockatiel named BB who came home with me on 5/20/2016.
WOW! Poor Ivan!! :02: All that water...clear poo is urine...I'm still having difficulties with BB the tiel..He is still fighting a bacterial infection that is diet related.
Grey are known to be succeptable to liver problems and heart problems (being enlarged) My TAG Smokey passed away at 28 from those ailments.

What is Ivan's diet like? Is he eating ok?
Plucking at his vent could be due to irritation. I'm sure you know what it feels like when you have an extended period of diarriha :eek: 10 months is a long time!

Have you been taking him to a CAV or just a regular vet???
Maybe he is experiencing emotional problems? You had him boarded for four years and that can be traumatic for a FID,wondering what the heck happened...where is my human? Why am I here???
Greys are very emotional creatures..sometimes "change" really affects their personality.

I am very sorry to learn your Ivan is going thru all this. It is heart breaking to say the least.

Please keep us updated. You have come to the right place. There are so many experienced,caring,loving and CONCERNED members here. Our FID's mean the world to us!!


Jim


Jim
 

Birdman666

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Sep 18, 2013
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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
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I'm simply not medically qualified to answer this.

I cannot help you. I'm sorry.
 
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twrigles05

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Sep 29, 2017
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Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your replies and desire to help. There were a number of questions that were asked so I will answer them:

Q: Is Ivan's vet avian certified?
A: Yes -- she is a AVIAN certified in addition to being a vet. She is the only avian certified vet in the area which is why I took him to see her.

Q: Does he have heavy metal toxicity?
A: He was not specifically tested for this. Is it possible for him to live 10 months with heavy metal toxicity? Wouldn't he have died by now? He has been living with me for the last 10 months, removed from the unsanitary conditions of the Parrot Sanctuary. I believe these last 10 months would have been a detox period for him to get any metal out of his system. He is not around metal at my home. Do you guys still think it could be this?

Q: Is Ivan eating OK?
A: Yes -- has a normal apeptite and is even a little on the fat side (1.5 pounds). He does not seem to be losing any weight.

Q: Is it emotional?
A: No. Emotions would not cause him to be excessive thirst and watery poops. He has been very well socialized since he was a baby with constant change in his life. He loved the sanctuary and being around other birds and humans.

Q: What is his diet?
A: His diet is pellets (roudy bush), fresh fruits (grapes, bananas, apples), vegetables (peas, carrots, potatoes, peppers)


Any other insights or help would be very helpful. I am in Washigton state Area, but may I will have to drive down to northern california to the Medical Center for Birds referenced above. is this the best avian vet in the country?The Medical Center for Birds - Oakley, CA -
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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And a Normal Grey Cockatiel named BB who came home with me on 5/20/2016.
Since you stated Ivan has NOT been specifically tested for heavy metal poisoning,personally,I think I would do that.

Having never had to deal with such a thing,I have no clue on how long it would stay in a system..I THINK the toxins can attach itself to organs and linger?
I am not a vet..I'm just grasping at straws here. But, like I mentioned,since heavy metal poisoning hasn't been checked on, I think that would be my next step.

Please keep us informed,and let Ivan know that Amy,BB,and I are keeping him in our thoughts and prayers.
I applaud you for being such a loving and caring and concerned parront!


Jim
 
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Tami2

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Aug 18, 2017
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Levi - 6 yr old CAG

DOH-4/2/2016
Hello, I’m very sorry to hear about Ivan’s chronic illness.
The excessive Polyuria/Polydipsia sounds like diabetes. The itching could be Renal & or Liver related again associated with diabetes. The watery stools indicate he is not metabolizing properly or it’s just the increase of fluids causing this or both? Has he been checked for a parasite? I’m fairly new to the parrot world and I’m not sure how well they do w/ parasites.
What about a food or environmental allergy?
All that you have mentioned could also be causing malnutrition, vitamin deficiencies and that could be adding to the symptoms as well.

I’m so sorry, I hope you can get this resolved. Please keep us posted.
Take care.
 

Inger

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What part of Washington are you in? Bumble sees one of the CAVs at The Center for Bird and Exotic Medicine in Bothell. If that’s not where you’re taking Ivan, maybe they could be a second set of eyes?


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Kiwibird

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Parrots can suffer for years from low level heavy metal toxicity before succumbing. It doesn't naturally "detox" out of them either. They must be put on chelation therapy by the vet to rid their bodies of the metal. Sometimes the metal can actually be inside their body (say they swallowed a small item made of zinc that didn't pass through), which would require surgical removal. Unfortunately, being out of your care for so long, you can't be sure the sanctuary used all safe toys or hardware. Zinc is the #1 cause for metal poisoning in parrots because it is so common. It is even sometimes in low quality parrot toys or worse, metal mesh often used to construct enclosures for birds (was he in a cage at the sanctuary or a wood/metal mesh enclosure?).

The longer you wait to rule out heavy metals, if that is what is wrong with Ivan, the higher the chance of long term neurological damage. You also really need to rule out avian diabetes, given the symptoms. Excessive thirst and urination in any animal is often the #1 sign of the onset of diabetes and like humans, if left untreated, diabetes can kill. Prompt treatment is essential. His symptoms don't really ring true to me for PDD/PBFD but the vet may need to run additional tests as you can get false negatives. How are his droppings? One of the main symptoms of PDD/PBFD is undigested food in the droppings. Abnormal droppings of other colors/consistencies can also be a huge clue as to what is wrong with him. Urates, urine, feces can all clue you in to where to look next. Poop is a hugely important diagnostic tool in illnesses in parrots.
 
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DRB

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So sad.

What is the repuation of the boarding place? Can you reach out to other clients of theirs to find out their experience or find out the health history of parrots after leaving that facility?

It is possible they treat birds in an odd way or mistreat some, obviously we'd all hope this isn't the case.

I have nothing else to offer I do not have enough experience.
 

Tsali

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I am so very sorry to hear about Ivan's health issues. It sounds like you have gotten some good solid information. Being relatively new to parrots, I have nothing to add, but I will keep you and Ivan in my thoughts and prayers.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Great insights thus far! We are not a medical board per se, but the depth of experience and knowledge may provide clues. It is of course for the attending vet to use diagnostic tools to narrow the issue(s).
 
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twrigles05

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What part of Washington are you in? Bumble sees one of the CAVs at The Center for Bird and Exotic Medicine in Bothell. If that’s not where you’re taking Ivan, maybe they could be a second set of eyes?


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I am near Bothell. I have taken him to Dr. Carter & Dr. Boutette at Evergreen Exotic Animal, and also taken him to Dr. Ferguson (Avian certified) at Pine Tree animal hospital.

It may be time to try a fourth vet. Would you recommend the Center for bird and exotic medicine?
 
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twrigles05

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Shout out to EVERYONE a huge thank you for all of your great insights and help. I had never considered "heavy metal toxicity" before. None of the vets I've worked with have mentioned it before either.

I'm scheduling another vet appointment now to get heavy metal testing. I really appreciate everyones thoughts and prayers through this difficult time. I will keep you updated!
 

Tami2

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Levi - 6 yr old CAG

DOH-4/2/2016
Shout out to EVERYONE a huge thank you for all of your great insights and help. I had never considered "heavy metal toxicity" before. None of the vets I've worked with have mentioned it before either.

I'm scheduling another vet appointment now to get heavy metal testing. I really appreciate everyones thoughts and prayers through this difficult time. I will keep you updated!

I have never either as Levi is my first parrot. This forum is so valuable it’s priceless. I am very appreciative of the ppl and their advice as well as experience and knowledge.

Good Luck to you both. :heart:
 

Scott

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Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Shout out to EVERYONE a huge thank you for all of your great insights and help. I had never considered "heavy metal toxicity" before. None of the vets I've worked with have mentioned it before either.

I'm scheduling another vet appointment now to get heavy metal testing. I really appreciate everyones thoughts and prayers through this difficult time. I will keep you updated!

This forum is all about the birds! Sometimes it takes jogging a remembrance or current oddball situation to help find the reason when vets are stumped.

Good luck with Ivan and please keep us advised!
 
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twrigles05

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What part of Washington are you in? Bumble sees one of the CAVs at The Center for Bird and Exotic Medicine in Bothell. If that’s not where you’re taking Ivan, maybe they could be a second set of eyes?


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Thank you for the advice. I have just scheduled a new appointment for this Wednesday with Anneliese Strunk( DVM, Diplomate ABVP (Avian)) at the Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital in Bothell, Washington. This will be the fourth vet that will see Ivan. I am definitely going to bring all of his previous medical records & x-rays, and I will mention aspergilliosis and heavy metal toxicity.

I'll post in here after Wednesday with his results. I will keep checking this thread in case anyone else has other ideas in the meantime. Thank you!
 

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