A few issues I could use help on

MooshieBird · Dec 13, 2017

Thanks in advance!

I thought I might find some help for a few issues I am having. First my Mushka has the worst balance ever. I think she just spent so much time, possibly her whole life on the same size wooden dowels. I have switched to natural wood perches of various sizes, and she rides around on me for at least a couple of hours a day and it is getting better but it is still terrible. Her foot strength is very poor, she likes to be a "bat" and hang upside down when we are playing but she always gets tired and ends up falling into my hands. And I am developing shoulder pains from walking around like a statue when she is on me for fear of her falling off. Are there any good exercises, toys, changes or anything I could do to help alleviate this problem?

Second issue, i am trying to get Mushka used to me handling her wings. I am wanting to allow her wings to grow out so she can be flighted. I am pretty sure she was flighted at one point because she as ZERO fear of jumping off anything and everything. Plus she floats remarkably well, she can flap a good 40 feet before she lands. So i want to get her used to being handled to put on a harness. If she didn't like having her wings handled I could work with it, but she likes it too much.... I can touch her back without much issue but every time I try to lift her wings or touch under her wings it becomes a parrot B-Porn movie. Heavy panting, squeaky noises, and regurgitation non stop for several minutes once she starts. Freaked me out the first time she did it and I ran straight to the computer to see what was wrong. I have tried giving treats to keep her busy, new toys to keep her busy, and I have tried to tire her out first with play sessions. Nothing works so far. So any thoughts on how I can calm her down and get her over this, it is hard to work with her when she does this and it makes me feel a bit dirty.

The last thing is, I AM TERRIFIED OF LETTING HER FLY!!!!!! I have started target and recall training. I got coverings for all my windows that didn't have coverings. Ceiling fans never run in my house anymore, and I put doors on my kitchen so it can be closed off. I got a harness and have started working with her getting her used to it. I have watched and read lots about flighted birds on the computer, and I really feel that this would be good for Mushka. I would love to hear others experiences with their flighted friends, good and bad. Is there anything I should fix that I haven't though of? ANY advice is welcome! I'm a bit neurotic about this so maybe a neurotic bird like an African Grey suits me.

Trivia Fun! African Grey's love to share their toys!

mooshiebird-albums-stuff-picture19000-shareing-careing.jpg

Even if you don't really want the toy.

SailBoat · Dec 13, 2017

MooshieBird said:
Thanks in advance!

I thought I might find some help for a few issues I am having. First my Mushka has the worst balance ever. I think she just spent so much time, possibly her whole life on the same size wooden dowels. I have switched to natural wood perches of various sizes, and she rides around on me for at least a couple of hours a day and it is getting better but it is still terrible. Her foot strength is very poor, she likes to be a "bat" and hang upside down when we are playing but she always gets tired and ends up falling into my hands. And I am developing shoulder pains from walking around like a statue when she is on me for fear of her falling off. Are there any good exercises, toys, changes or anything I could do to help alleviate this problem?

Second issue, i am trying to get Mushka used to me handling her wings. I am wanting to allow her wings to grow out so she can be flighted. I am pretty sure she was flighted at one point because she as ZERO fear of jumping off anything and everything. Plus she floats remarkably well, she can flap a good 40 feet before she lands. So i want to get her used to being handled to put on a harness. If she didn't like having her wings handled I could work with it, but she likes it too much.... I can touch her back without much issue but every time I try to lift her wings or touch under her wings it becomes a parrot B-Porn movie. Heavy panting, squeaky noises, and regurgitation non stop for several minutes once she starts. Freaked me out the first time she did it and I ran straight to the computer to see what was wrong. I have tried giving treats to keep her busy, new toys to keep her busy, and I have tried to tire her out first with play sessions. Nothing works so far. So any thoughts on how I can calm her down and get her over this, it is hard to work with her when she does this and it makes me feel a bit dirty.

The last thing is, I AM TERRIFIED OF LETTING HER FLY!!!!!! I have started target and recall training. I got coverings for all my windows that didn't have coverings. Ceiling fans never run in my house anymore, and I put doors on my kitchen so it can be closed off. I got a harness and have started working with her getting her used to it. I have watched and read lots about flighted birds on the computer, and I really feel that this would be good for Mushka. I would love to hear others experiences with their flighted friends, good and bad. Is there anything I should fix that I haven't though of? ANY advice is welcome! I'm a bit neurotic about this so maybe a neurotic bird like an African Grey suits me.

Redeveloping Muscles takes time - Months, and Years!!! Keep doing what you are doing. Your Parrot will add activities as strength builds!

Be happy that she will allow you to catch her!!! Appears that she is training you well!

Welcome to being a Parrot Owner! Consider wearing something she can get her claws into! That, with her increase in muscle mass will ease that issue!

Leave the areas under the Wings alone! If your Parrot is responding to your touching in specific areas, they become off-limits! She caused you to feel a 'Bit Dirt?' Really? Who was handling her? You're the Adult in the room. She got excited, you should have stopped at first indication. FYI: Just how much dark, silent sleep is she get every night?

40' is a very good glide distance. Getting her to flap her wings more will help build those very important flight muscles! There are a couple of great Threads in the Amazon Forum that speak to Flight Training and Safety.

Also, in that Forum is a Sticky Thread (high lighted in Light Blue) that is titled: I Love Amazons - ... Inside that huge Thread are over 30 Segments that provide great information that can be used not only for Amazons, but near all Parrots! One of those Segments speaks to Re-flighting and older Parrot. That Segment is just as helpful for Re-flighting a younger Parrot.

Fear exists, where knowledge has not been allowed to bring in the light of day! Once again, within the Amazon Forum are Threads that contain information regarding teaching Parrots 'Safe Flight Paths and Landing Zones!'

We are a Free Roaming, Free Flighted Home, 24 /7 /365. The cages are never closed. Can it be done, Yuppers! Is it easy, NO!

FYI: Just in case you haven't seen this in your many tours around Parrot Forums!

It is NEVER the fault of the Parrot!
It is ALWAYS the fault of the Human.

When you change your vantage point from Human Centered to Parrot Centered your will see what YOU are doing wrong and correct it!

MooshieBird · Dec 13, 2017

SailBoat said:
Redeveloping Muscles takes time - Months, and Years!!! Keep doing what you are doing. Your Parrot will add activities as strength builds!

Be happy that she will allow you to catch her!!! Appears that she is training you well!

Welcome to being a Parrot Owner! Consider wearing something she can get her claws into! That, with her increase in muscle mass will ease that issue!

Leave the areas under the Wings alone! If your Parrot is responding to your touching in specific areas, they become off-limits! She caused you to feel a 'Bit Dirt?' Really? Who was handling her? You're the Adult in the room. She got excited, you should have stopped at first indication. FYI: Just how much dark, silent sleep is she get every night?

40' is a very good glide distance. Getting her to flap her wings more will help build those very important flight muscles! There are a couple of great Threads in the Amazon Forum that speak to Flight Training and Safety.

Also, in that Forum is a Sticky Thread (high lighted in Light Blue) that is titled: I Love Amazons - ... Inside that huge Thread are over 30 Segments that provide great information that can be used not only for Amazons, but near all Parrots! One of those Segments speaks to Re-flighting and older Parrot. That Segment is just as helpful for Re-flighting a younger Parrot.

Fear exists, where knowledge has not been allowed to bring in the light of day! Once again, within the Amazon Forum are Threads that contain information regarding teaching Parrots 'Safe Flight Paths and Landing Zones!'

We are a Free Roaming, Free Flighted Home, 24 /7 /365. The cages are never closed. Can it be done, Yuppers! Is it easy, NO!

FYI: Just in case you haven't seen this in your many tours around Parrot Forums!

It is NEVER the fault of the Parrot!
It is ALWAYS the fault of the Human.

When you change your vantage point from Human Centered to Parrot Centered your will see what YOU are doing wrong and correct it!

Thanks for the reply!

As for the first issue of balance/strength, Glad to hear that it's not me screwing up and it just takes time. Mushka tries really hard all the time and watching her struggle to climb up something that she should be able to climb with no issues makes me impatient. But she seems to have fun with it so we will keep plugging along. And I always wear shirts that allow a good grip when she is on my shoulder but I think I will take your advice and start wearing some of the thermal shirts with an even better grip , otherwise she stays on my hand or forearm if I am moving too much to have her on my shoulder.

As to the second issue, no I don't really feel dirty, that was a joke that obviously didn't translate well into written form. My bad. I don't touch under the wings but to put on her harness (it's an aviator harness) the instructions state to get her used to having her wings handled. Is there perhaps another way to slip the harness under her wing? I just want to avoid getting her hormones excited. To answer your question I am doing the 12 hrs light / 12 hours dark schedule but I read your post in the Amazon forum and I think I will gradually start switching her to the day / night schedule you suggested. I live on the gulf coast close to the equator. Lots of good info in that post so thanks for that.

As to the third issue, good info on getting started with flight. I am going to try out your method over my bed and see how Mushka handles it. Thanks so much for your input! And i'm still reading your post on the Amazon forum to see what other great stuff is in there. And yes I have seen the quote:
It is NEVER the fault of the Parrot!
It is ALWAYS the fault of the Human.
That is why I am asking, so I can learn what to do.

Still open to more advice from you or anyone else. Thanks again!

Soyajam · Dec 13, 2017

Flying is indeed spooky - as someone with an almost-fledged baby can attest ;-)

I can tell you that in a small room, an awkwardly flying bird usually can't get up enough speed to do much damage when they crash*. The first flights Remi took she couldn't put the brakes on in time and crashed into our glass door. Apart from sort of dropping like a rock she was ok after catching her breath.
*Big giant disclaimer: Accidents can happen, even to the most safety conscious of owners. I do my best to minimise the risks. I don't mind the risk considering the benefits full flight will bring for my bird's mental + physical health

After a week or two of practicing nightly, she can now deftly avoid the window and flies in pretty tight loops when she has what I call "the flaps". We now feel confident enough to start including the rest of the house (including a long hallway) and now she knows how to land a bit better when she runs out of puff.

As for the harness, I'm going through the same sort of thing as you too - she was supposed to be harness trained before getting to us but apart from the head she shows discomfort with anything on the rest of her. The aviator video (it's on Youtube actually) goes very slowly with the desensitisation stuff (which is what you're doing).

Their instructions say to get your bird used to just touching their wings, before trying to move or lift the wings. Once she's completely calm with gentle, short touches, then you can try to poke a bit more. You stop when you see her becoming uncomfortable, and reward calm, contented behaviour.
There's a reason it's a slow process. You have an advantage over me if Mushka's food motivated - because it's much easier to train when they're motivated by something!

As an aside, the instructions also talk about teaching your birds to be unbalanced, as commonly, getting a harness on involves you knocking them off balance to get the harness on, and most birds freak out when they get unbalanced on their feet.

Take your time and you'll get there!

MooshieBird · Dec 14, 2017

Soyajam said:
Flying is indeed spooky - as someone with an almost-fledged baby can attest ;-)

I can tell you that in a small room, an awkwardly flying bird usually can't get up enough speed to do much damage when they crash*. The first flights Remi took she couldn't put the brakes on in time and crashed into our glass door. Apart from sort of dropping like a rock she was ok after catching her breath.
*Big giant disclaimer: Accidents can happen, even to the most safety conscious of owners. I do my best to minimise the risks. I don't mind the risk considering the benefits full flight will bring for my bird's mental + physical health

After a week or two of practicing nightly, she can now deftly avoid the window and flies in pretty tight loops when she has what I call "the flaps". We now feel confident enough to start including the rest of the house (including a long hallway) and now she knows how to land a bit better when she runs out of puff.

As for the harness, I'm going through the same sort of thing as you too - she was supposed to be harness trained before getting to us but apart from the head she shows discomfort with anything on the rest of her. The aviator video (it's on Youtube actually) goes very slowly with the desensitisation stuff (which is what you're doing).

Their instructions say to get your bird used to just touching their wings, before trying to move or lift the wings. Once she's completely calm with gentle, short touches, then you can try to poke a bit more. You stop when you see her becoming uncomfortable, and reward calm, contented behaviour.
There's a reason it's a slow process. You have an advantage over me if Mushka's food motivated - because it's much easier to train when they're motivated by something!

As an aside, the instructions also talk about teaching your birds to be unbalanced, as commonly, getting a harness on involves you knocking them off balance to get the harness on, and most birds freak out when they get unbalanced on their feet.

Take your time and you'll get there!

Muska can't fly yet but thankfully she doesn't drop either. I have walked her around the house and introduced her to windows and she knocks on them so she hopefully gets that they are solid. Plus I have dirty windows, never thought that would be a good thing.

I'm not nearly as far along as you on the harness. I just have it in the room where she can see it and I drape it over my shoulders a couple of times a day in sight of Mushka. She already liked to bury her head in my hands for head scritches so it was easy to get her to allow me to "loop" my fingers over her head. And she lets me touch and stroke her back and has never showed any discomfort or irritation no matter how long I leave my hand there. Until I got the harness I avoided touching her back with my hands and I don't want to create bad habbits but she likes to lay on her back on my lap or in my hand when she plays. But lifting the wing for longer than a few seconds has presented a problem. She doesn't get angry, just over excited and I don't want to frustrate her or encourage this behavior.

I'm not over rushed, Mushka won't have all her flight feathers in for quite some time so I have plenty of time to work with her. And to get over my fear of her getting hurt. Or at least get it down to a reasonable fear. I think fully flighted is whats best for her but I still have a pit in my stomach thinking I could mess up and she gets hurt. When I last had birds they were clipped and birds were "supposed" to be clipped back then.

As to loosing balance, I haven't even tried to get the harness near the bird so I am off a bit from that. But I am keenly aware of Mushka's balance issues. She gets off balance all the time by herself and when she starts playing hard I have to keep her on the couch or on the floor because she is like a pinball machine...

Thanks so much for the information, the relatable story with your Eclectus Remi (She is gorgeous, I love female eclectus plumage), And the encouragement!

SailBoat · Dec 14, 2017

"I AM TERRIFIED OF LETTING HER FLY!!!!!!"

Thank-you for taking on that huge Thread: I Love Amazons - ...!

Once you have her developing strong Flight Muscles and she is clearly developing lift. That is when it becomes important to develop 'safe flight paths and landing zones. The Goal is with repeated effort on your part is to show her those paths from her cage and other areas, like perches and from places in the room (home) back to the cage or perch.

The reality is that when they 'fear flight,' they commonly do it with no target in mind. Walking these paths with her begins to develop 'known' routes in her mind and as a result, as the reality sets in (where am I going?) the developed routes kick in and they begin flying them!

More later in that regard.

AmyMyBlueFront · Dec 14, 2017

MooshieBird said:
Thanks in advance!

I thought I might find some help for a few issues I am having. First my Mushka has the worst balance ever. I think she just spent so much time, possibly her whole life on the same size wooden dowels. I have switched to natural wood perches of various sizes, and she rides around on me for at least a couple of hours a day and it is getting better but it is still terrible. Her foot strength is very poor, she likes to be a "bat" and hang upside down when we are playing but she always gets tired and ends up falling into my hands. And I am developing shoulder pains from walking around like a statue when she is on me for fear of her falling off. Are there any good exercises, toys, changes or anything I could do to help alleviate this problem?

Second issue, i am trying to get Mushka used to me handling her wings. I am wanting to allow her wings to grow out so she can be flighted. I am pretty sure she was flighted at one point because she as ZERO fear of jumping off anything and everything. Plus she floats remarkably well, she can flap a good 40 feet before she lands. So i want to get her used to being handled to put on a harness. If she didn't like having her wings handled I could work with it, but she likes it too much.... I can touch her back without much issue but every time I try to lift her wings or touch under her wings it becomes a parrot B-Porn movie. Heavy panting, squeaky noises, and regurgitation non stop for several minutes once she starts. Freaked me out the first time she did it and I ran straight to the computer to see what was wrong. I have tried giving treats to keep her busy, new toys to keep her busy, and I have tried to tire her out first with play sessions. Nothing works so far. So any thoughts on how I can calm her down and get her over this, it is hard to work with her when she does this and it makes me feel a bit dirty.

The last thing is, I AM TERRIFIED OF LETTING HER FLY!!!!!! I have started target and recall training. I got coverings for all my windows that didn't have coverings. Ceiling fans never run in my house anymore, and I put doors on my kitchen so it can be closed off. I got a harness and have started working with her getting her used to it. I have watched and read lots about flighted birds on the computer, and I really feel that this would be good for Mushka. I would love to hear others experiences with their flighted friends, good and bad. Is there anything I should fix that I haven't though of? ANY advice is welcome! I'm a bit neurotic about this so maybe a neurotic bird like an African Grey suits me.

Trivia Fun! African Grey's love to share their toys!

Even if you don't really want the toy.

Amy my Amazon had never fledged and doesn't know how to fly. Next month he will be 28 years old and I have had him since he was 4 months old..I was still "green"..so to speak,when he picked me to go home with,and every spring/summer a had the sleeves on his arms shortened cause he was always going outside with me and for rides.
Just lately I have have been trying to teach him flying lessons. Since it is winter here He wont be going outside and now has a full set of long sleeves on both arms.
We do the "flapflapflap" lesson..I have him perch on his favorite perch stick and ask him "ok Amy you ready to flap?" Then I count...one..two..three..FLAP and bring the perch down quickly and he'll start to flap.
When I first did it he gave me a look like "What the h*** was that???

"
Now he anticipates it. At times before the lessons start..he'll sit on his play top and wave his arms a few times (warming up??)
We due a couple 5 minute sessions in the course of our play time and it looks to me he enjoys it very much..hasn't been a time when he has said NO lol

Jim

GaleriaGila · Dec 14, 2017

I love your dedication and open-mindedness. I'm so happy to know that your darling has a better life on the way.
Great advice already.
For flight help and safety, I was shown this little "trick" ages ago, and still use it when we move, to make sure he knows where walls and especially windows are. The bird doesn't need to tap... just touch and get the idea.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssC-fsVmgDE"]rickeybirdproductions: KNOCK KNOCK! - YouTube[/ame]

AmyMyBlueFront · Dec 14, 2017

GaleriaGila said:
I love your dedication and open-mindedness. I'm so happy to know that your darling has a better life on the way.
Great advice already.
For flight help and safety, I was shown this little "trick" ages ago, and still use it when we move, to make sure he knows where walls and especially windows are. The bird doesn't need to tap... just touch and get the idea.
rickeybirdproductions: KNOCK KNOCK! - YouTube

LOL....awwww Gail...that was so cute!

Jim

DRB · Dec 14, 2017

I do some exercises with Perjo everyday. I let her perch on my hand then extend my arm out and beneath my waist and pull her toward me causing her to have to flap her wings. I'll do this for 25-30 seconds and sometimes she just keeps flapping in place.

She then comes and sits on my shoulder and has a slightly elevated heart rate and breathing to which she responds with a "phew" as if I'm tired or that was something. No kidding, she picked this up on her own.

LeaKP · Dec 14, 2017

Nigel was horribly clipped when he came home, his flight has improved slightly but he’s clumsy so we’re really careful. He is ok as long as he’s in known territory,

Billdore · Dec 14, 2017

My Timneh would practice on her own. She would hold on to her perch and flap like crazy like she was trying to take off. I think she was just testing her lift cause now that she can fly she hasn't ever done it again. Forgot to mention the three count when your lifting Mushkas wing. That really helped Timneh so she knew it was only going to last 3 seconds and when we got to 3 I let go and give her a treat. You don't need to pet under wing you need to be able to lift her wing so you can get the harness underneath. Timneh freaks out with the loop over the head. So we haven't gotten the harness on yet but we are working towards next summer possibly.

wrench13 · Dec 14, 2017

Harness training. Some parrots take it up as easy as eating sweet potatoes, some take months and months and months. My Yellow Shoulder Amazon, Salty took almost a year, and that was practicing EVERY night, religiously. Figure 325 times, minimum, we practiced. And you do need to be able to manipulate your parrot a lot when putting it on, usually. I've seen videos where the parrot politely pokes his head thru the head loop ( or stall ) and one by one lifts their wings up , on their own, to get the straps over the wings. That is truely the exception I think. Salty is a really smart parrot, does dozens of tricks, but does not like his wings being touched, at all. Even so, because we have a good bond, and play rough, with him on his back and stuff, every night, I usualy have to wrestle him into his harness. The idea is to desensitize him to being manipulated without chomping your finger off. To get a good idea of how much handling you might need to do, watch the "How not to put a harness on" video on our Youtube channel, link below.

You sound like a great parront and Mushka is well engaged with you. 'Boats is one of our most experienced parrot-people on this board, so listen well to his suggestions and th topics he writes about - you won't get better advice even if you paid for it.

wrench13 · Dec 14, 2017

Oh and perch size - read in the Amazon thread you are working your way through - 'Boats gives you minimum diameters for perches based on foot size. Me - I have a 3" diameter perch for Salty's sleeping perch, and if I can find a good one thats larger, he'll get that one too. If your Mushka was raised on a small dowel, its no doubt contributing to her balance and perching issues. That too will take months/ years to correct, but heck, you aren't going anywhere; neither is she.

Last - NEVER EVER take you Moushka outside without a harness or in a travel cage. Clipped or not, under the right circumstances even a bird whose never ever tried to fly can get scared and be caught by a breeze or wind, only to be lost forever - it happens all the time ( me too!! ).

MooshieBird · Dec 14, 2017

First. Thanks for all the help, you folks are AWESOME!

SailBoatThe "I love Amazons" thread is SO AWESOME!!!!! Thank you so much for putting so much information in one place. The "getting to the foot of the problem" really helped explain why Mushka has her balance/strength issues. The pictures of proper parrot perch posture helped as well. I feel way better about her perching situation now. Oh, and I threw away all my candles too, I didn't know candles could cause problems like aerosols did. I regularly walk Mushka through the house to get her used to everything and see where we need to desensitize. I am gonna start looking at flight paths and landing zones now too so I am ready when she is.

AmyMyBlueFront and DRB: I really like this idea, I would be comfortable doing this over my bed. Some questions though, AmyMyBlueFront you said you use a perching stick, why is that? Would I be able to do this with Mushka perched on my hand? The reason I ask is Mushka has bad foot strength and might have trouble hanging on.

GalariaGila: I love the video! Made me laugh. Mushka and I have already done this same thing with windows, but never on walls. Great idea thanks!

Billdore: We aren't there on the wing lifting yet, but I will keep the three second rule in mind as we progress. Thanks!

wrench13: I hope harness training is easier for Mushka than sweet potatos. She hates those. I honestly haven't started actual harness training yet, I just started getting her desensitized to the harness's presence and started handling the bird as suggested in the harness video. We will see how it goes. Salty's videos are fun by the way, he sure looks happy. And yes I have been scouring SailBoats posts, I still have lots to to go through. And YES I saw Sailboat's post on perch diameter. Mushka's sleeping perch is her food bowl ring that is welded to her cage. Not happy about that but all her other perches are good. Unfortunately I am not taking Muska outside right now, it's too cold! But thankfully I did know not to take her outside loose. She has a carrier and a travel cage for when we do need to go outside. For now though we just have the full spectrum lamp and try to pretend we are outside. Not as much fun. But when it gets warm again, AVIARY SHOPPING!!!! Thank you for the heads up though, not going outside with a loose bird is something that you can't let enough bird owners know and if I had not known I would now.

Thanks again everyone!

A few issues I could use help on

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