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Old 02-12-2018, 08:13 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

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This is a good poem to share right now. I wish I had written it.

A BIRDS LIFE

I sat in a cage in a busy pet store.
Whose employees saw me as just one more chore.
I was bought by a family and brought to their home.
They played with me daily I was never alone.
Then came the baby and mommies too tired.
No time for the birdie, and daddy got fired.
For a time I can handle it, for it couldn't last?
Then out of the blue, came a traumatic blast.
I was torn from my home, I was given away.
Take care of the birdie was all they could say.
My new home is scary, in time I'd adjust.
But it didn't last long enough, my hopes were a bust.
And so I was sold to someone with kids.
But they left for college, now I'm up for bids.
I had new owners, who were husband and wife.
They yell and they scream and I fear for my life.
Then one day it happened, the mean one hit me.
This is exactly how I feared things would be.
I tried to be quiet and I tried to be good.
I hoped they would treat me the way that they should.
No longer that trusting, I'm afraid can't you see.
I bit into the hand of the one who hurt me.
Another new place where I just want to die.
They want me to breed, but why should I try.
This is my life, I'm a throwaway bird.
Our numbers are many as I'm sure you have heard.
I'd tell you my name, but that’s way in the past.
It's been 20 long years since I heard it last.
I'm at the end of my life, too young you may say.
But my journey was hard; I'm too broken to stay.

I wrote this poem in loving memory of all the birds that have lived and died the life of a throwaway bird. - Alison Schofield
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:27 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

thank you K,

that poem is all that I fear, and I fear all that because it's true.. not everyone or every situation turns out that way, I sure as hell hope not anyways but too often it does..

also I never took your reply as thinking my relationship had issues but we're having a conversation that deals with emotions, family and I felt it was important to explain in order to have a better idea where to go or what the solutions might be..
in a case where the family is always fighting, arguing, yelling or to the point of separation.. the answer might be deeper, and easy at the same time, pack up and leave, or council with professional help.. but it's not the case and felt I should explain that. :-D

I'm at the crossroad where, I think when that couple gets back to me I may ask them to wait or simply give them back their deposit, which I didn't want in the first place because it scared me.. they insisted and I understand their view too, they wanted to make sure they would get her and maybe at the same time, poke me in the direction of letting her go.. A point I clearly said that I could change my mind when the time comes.. but they are very nice and I did get a good vibe meeting them both times, her boyfriend even managed to handle her a little..

I read all of your other post too, don't want to take too much or everyone's time with another long post.. but much of what you said is right and almost all things I've already been doing..

Kali have a nice quilted cover and she's always super quiet when it's bed time, up until she ears the first person up.. then starts with the hello, cuckoo, name calling and so on but if ignored too long she gets louder and it's normal too..
I already get her breakfast and daytime dishes ready before leaving for work, re-fill when I get home.. then when my wife gets up, she'll take the cover off, or wait longer if she wants peace and quiet a while longer.. that part is ok and no need to have her sleep downstairs..
I had a fair size carry cage that I had set up down there for when they had enough and wanted her elsewhere if too noisy.. but the plan was to take her down there for a short period and then bring her back up once she's calm.. a few time my wife took her down but forgot to bring her back up before leaving for work !!! no big deal as she had food and water and it's comfortable down there.. still it p### me off.. then my son would bring her down and would take the cage and place it in the laundry room where it's not heated.... where the s##t hit the fan is the day I came home from work and he had her in there since 11 before he left for school, with the lights off.... can't even write here how mad I was.. lets just say I had a serious talk with the ones involved.. wife too since she left her there when she got home.. anyhow I've since dismantled that cage so NO ONE can take her down anymore.. told them , put the cover on her cage, worst case if they forget to remove it, it's not that dark in the day time, she has food, water, her toys and swing and warmth.. and now that works and never had issues like that again..

She did try to teach her tricks at first, even taught her a few words... when we do have company over, Kali is great.. after about 30 mins she'll chit chat and be funny, everyone loves her and say how amazing she is,, that's usually my wife's cue to say how much she hates her arrgggg..

I don't want to ramble your ears off too long LOL everyone has been helpful in helping me try to figure things out so I can keep her.. I'm going to try and have my wife physically take Kali out of her cage and bring her in the living room.. might clip her wings a little so she depends on her more and not be as independent.. I kept her fully winged because of the dog, he want to play with her, not that I would 100% trust him with her, but I don't think he would hurt her, he's a exceptional dog.. the few times she did tired out and landed where she couldn't get back up.. all he did was position himself over her to keep her from leaving.. still can't trust him 100% he might step on her by mistake or she could hurt him too..
ohh as for my dog, must say that I now enjoy the walks, even if my son's do go for a walk.. my dog is so conditioned that I walk him Am and Pm that he will literally come up to me, take my hand and delicately pull me to take him out once I get up he rushes to his harness and waits for me there.. like that's not enough, Kali knows this and says bye bye see you later as we walk out... how can anyone not love that

I need to figure this out somehow, no part of me wants to see kali go, the only thing is me trying to satisfy everyone in my family ..
as you also mentioned going to the vet once a year or even getting to see her once in a while, the couple even offered I could babysit when or if they travel.. but that would be hard on me and her I would think.

I've been reading about transitions in new homes and/or when people go away on long trips ( which I never do)
wonder how gradual change would work if I have to let her go..
take her there for a few weekends, then maybe a week and back to see how she would react and adapt ??? maybe they would be ok with that approach?? I'm not but if that's how it ends.. maybe that could work out best so kali gets to know them and not just show up there one day and never see me again.. still this is last resort..

steph
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2018, 10:32 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

This is heart breaking We are all here to listen to you Steph. Don't ever feel you are imposing on us,we all need to vent from time to time.

I'm sure your situation is not unique,but it is to YOU and all concerned here.

I think most everyone will agree with me. We are here to listen,to offer advice,sympathy and understanding.

Don't give up..."fight the good fight"...there has to be an amlicable resolution here!

Keep us posted PLEASE!



Jim
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And a Grey 'teil, BB...a.k.a. The Beebs
that was 18 weeks old 5/20/2016,






Rest in peace,my precious Smokey..4/2015 at 28 years young
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:33 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Just one question for you tonight. It's not just about keeping everyone else happy ... you have to keep YOU happy, too. Life is very short. Your kids will grow up and move on, and with more space in the house it might be easier to set up a better space for Kali.

I lived for a while in a part of the world where men were allowed to have several wives, but they had to treat them all the same. Same quality living space, clothing, food ... and of course it wasn't exactly the same and I don't mean to defend the practice. But maybe you can have two wives, one parrot and one human? I believe you already show Kali all the love she needs ... do you think your wife can tell you what she needs? In a perfect world, what would have to change for her to think it was OK for Kali to stay? And then how can you get closer to that?

It's not just about will Kali have a good future or not. We can't know the future. I have a step-grand-daughter who had got out of a neglectful, borderline abusive situation and was living with an aunt's family in another state. She had her own room, and was really starting to blossom. Then her mom guilt-tripped her into coming home to help out with the younger siblings. We tried to talk her out of it to no avail, and worried that she was throwing a good chance away. The next week, a bunch of her best friends were at a slumber party, one that she would have attended if she'd stayed in town. A kid from the high school sneaked the keys to his dad's sports car and came by and talked a big bunch of the girls into going for a ride. She would have almost certainly been one of them because she hated to be left out. The boy crashed the car into a tree killing all of them. Here we thought she was throwing her happiness away, when if she'd done as we all thought best she might have been killed.

You can't know the future. The young couple could turn out to be terrible, or you could keep Kali and your house might burn down tomorrow with her in it.

We can make our choices by moving away from something we fear, or by moving toward something we love. Right now your choices seem to be framed in terms of fear. If Kali doesn't go, the wife will be angry, the kids will be upset, if Kali goes she mighty suffer ... those choices just pit one unhappy fear against the other. Picking the lesser of two evils is suboptimal.

Are there some positive choices? What if you keep Kali, and maybe there are a couple of rocky years, but you shower love on Kali, you shower love on your wife, everyone does what they have to do to get through the rough patch ... and then one day there are a couple of old people with their old parrot, living in harmony. How rare is that? How enviable! And when something happens to one of you .. as it must .. the other two will comfort one another and keep the memories alive. It could be good.

I hope that you guys will find a way for Kali to stay. Whatever happens, don't choose because you are forced or because you are afraid. Choose the path that has the most light and love. Pretend you are a neutral observer, and advise yourself. You are harder on yourself than anyone else would be. Whatever happens, if it happens with love and good will, it will be well done.

Take your time and slow down. Don't let Kali go until you feel in your heart that it's the right thing to do. And it will be good.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:46 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Quote: Originally Posted by Kentuckienne View Post
This is a good poem to share right now. I wish I had written it.

A BIRDS LIFE

I sat in a cage in a busy pet store.
Whose employees saw me as just one more chore.
I was bought by a family and brought to their home.
They played with me daily I was never alone.
Then came the baby and mommies too tired.
No time for the birdie, and daddy got fired.
For a time I can handle it, for it couldn't last?
Then out of the blue, came a traumatic blast.
I was torn from my home, I was given away.
Take care of the birdie was all they could say.
My new home is scary, in time I'd adjust.
But it didn't last long enough, my hopes were a bust.
And so I was sold to someone with kids.
But they left for college, now I'm up for bids.
I had new owners, who were husband and wife.
They yell and they scream and I fear for my life.
Then one day it happened, the mean one hit me.
This is exactly how I feared things would be.
I tried to be quiet and I tried to be good.
I hoped they would treat me the way that they should.
No longer that trusting, I'm afraid can't you see.
I bit into the hand of the one who hurt me.
Another new place where I just want to die.
They want me to breed, but why should I try.
This is my life, I'm a throwaway bird.
Our numbers are many as I'm sure you have heard.
I'd tell you my name, but thatís way in the past.
It's been 20 long years since I heard it last.
I'm at the end of my life, too young you may say.
But my journey was hard; I'm too broken to stay.

I wrote this poem in loving memory of all the birds that have lived and died the life of a throwaway bird. - Alison Schofield
Oh my goodness, how sad & how true.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:07 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Thanks K,

I do try and give lots of attention to my wife, I spend more time watching her favorite shows.. when I got home last night, Kali's cage didn't have the cover on it and Kali was fairly quiet too.. I had asked her on the phone earlier if she could get her to step up and bring her in the living room with her.. well she didn't but it's a step better than having the cover on her I guess..
both my son and my wife would open her cage before ( while back now) so Kali would either be in the dining room or living room.. either spot, kali would fly to me and greet me the second I walked in it's fun,,, but you can imagine the comments from my wife !!! saying I give her attention first ... so that might be a sub conscience reason why she doesn't let her out anymore ??? would make sense
oddly, I got the same reaction from her now with the dog, he runs up to me tail waging because he wants attention and his walk when I get home..
this time with more humor to it, but she still pointed out how I give him lots of attention..
so having a good sense of humor myself, told her that if she would get up, run to the door to greet me with that much attention seeking waging her tail, ( didn't say tail) LOL she would get the same.. she did laugh LOL

on a brighter note, for the first time last night she realised that I don't want to see her go and that she might be staying.. didn't say anything other than "you want to keep her don't you""
been trying to find ways to avoid Kali annoying her.. at the same time trying to convince my wife to handle her more, help build a bond between them.she says that kali bit her and that's why she refuses.. but I told her that she bit you because you wanted to force her downstairs, where she knew she would stay all day alone.. and again, she didn't contradict that point!!!!

maybe this will work out..
sure hope so.. might be a combination of realizing just what she's asking me to do, her job being less stressful and the meds keeping her in a happy place..
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:06 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Ah, then you need the "why parrots bite" talk.

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:38 PM
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Exclamation Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Yellowtang,

Speaking as a woman with her own insecurity and depression issues... I HAVE to say that when your wife said "You want to keep it, don't you?" What she WANTED to hear was for you to say "No dear, I want you to be happy more than I care for anything else" .. BUT I have to say that it is a dangerous and downward path if you were to say that.

First, because nobody should ever be waiting for some event or action to happen in order for them to be happy. A wise man once said "If you are not happy at this moment, for what moment are you waiting?" meaning that if you wait for a moment, you will ALWAYS be waiting and never be happy. Your wife needs to work through these insecurities and find her happiness and love within herself and with your help, but NOT at the expense of YOUR happiness and love.

Second, because if you give up Kali to make her happy, then she will continue to ask you to give up other things to make her happy and that will only lead to both of you being unhappy.

Third, Kali is NOT a peice of furniture. She's not really even a PET, she's a thinking, feeling, loving creature who has been a part of your life for nearly EIGHT long years. It's CRUEL to her and CRUEL to you for her to insist that this beautiful Companion be ripped away from her FAMILY. It would be different if this were some serious physical health problem, or some other catastriphic and unavoidable event.

Please consider this.... Please help your wife to understand this. My hopes and prayers are with you and your family, including the feathered family member. I hope it all works out for you all. Good luck!
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:56 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

You know, I'm thinking ... for her to say "you want to keep her, don't you" means she really doesn't grok the nature of the bond. She's thinking, maybe, of a bird as less emotional and interactive than a cat or dog because it isn't as touch-oriented. Birds fly, and they connect to the flock through their minds, not their bodies. She may not have a sense of the depth of the connection between human and parrot.

Have you got a copy of "Alex and Me", the story of Alex the parrot and Dr. Irene Pepperberg? I thought it did well at illustrating the intelligence and emotional depth of parrots. Might help her understand. I will lend you a copy if you need, it's cheap on Amazon now. I cried like a baby when I got to the part where Alex died, even though I knew he had been gone for years.

Don't know the best way to explain your feelings for Kali...if you are a person who is better at writing than talking, maybe you could write her a letter. She knows you are taking her seriously now, because you made the start, and so may be a bit more open to seeing your side of it.

It is an interesting problem, and I'm curious to see how you guys figure it out. I hope it is in some delightful and enlightening way.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:25 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

thank you both again for you time

It had crossed my mind that what she really wanted to ear was exactly what you said Sqeek.. but di not want to even try and go there, for the exact reasons you are thinking about.. I preferred to see it as finally understanding me..
I have given up other hobbies in the past, always had salt water reef tanks and had some extremely nice ones too.. but work and time spent caring for it, I finally gave it up after 25++years, was into radio controlled planes and helicopters for almost 15 years.. gave that up too even with me only going on weekends when she worked or a few hours near by instead of with all the others at the field.. would go before she got up.. but in the end sold all my equipment still miss it, was relaxing for me..

so we got a parrot but we all know how that turned out..but Kali was always out of the question.. still don't know why I caved in this time, probably because of the doctor and the meds, that got me to think it over too much and look for the easy fix ??

I had translated most of the Alex story to her, we're French and she doesn't read or speak it that much.. I also was touched at the end with his last words I go back and read about it often..

so far my new strategy is to try and get her to handle Kali if possible, trying to keep her occupied more too so she's quiet and doesn't scream..( talking about Kali here) LOL. put her back in her cage if I have to go out or out of her sight for too long..

so far, no news from that couple, maybe they won't have the $$ by the end of the month ?? might be a sign if that happens.. by then, I might just give them the deposit back..
all your kind words are extremely helpful , much clearer to me how big of a mistake this can be, I knew it was but , when I think about not seeing her anymore..
just last night, watching TV, she's in her rope crawler, making her feathers all nice and she sees me looking at her and then makes this cute little sound she does puts her little leg up and scratches her own neck telling me to get up and scratch her..

thanks again

Steph
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