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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:50 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

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I love this place.
I'm late to this thread... sorry.
What a beautiful outpouring of love, understanding, support and CARE.

May I tell my story? Maybe there are some elements of thought and hope that may be of interest.
My story...
I got him in 1984. I was fearing getting evicted due to his noise, and my family at the time HATED him. I recall struggling to make a decision, sitting on the floor of my townhouse, watching him race and skip and frolic around on the tile floor, and then run to me GRINNING, so proud to be showing off for me. I would just stare at him and be amazed: imagine --- a real parrot in my house, and it loved me! I felt so guilty and inadequate and afraid at one point that I had him in his travel cage and was planning to take him back to the bird store. I opened the front door and couldn't go through. Closed it. Sat down. Took my little love out and promised him we would stay together.
I didn't really believe it, but I wanted to. Eventually, I did. I was in college back then, and at least I could spend a lot of time with him.
Then there were were years (about 25 of them) when 5-6 days a week, I was gone at 7:30-ish and back at 6-ish.
Some did and will consider me wrong and think I should have re-homed him. My husband at that time detested the bird. My current ol' man tolerates him with good humor. No, the bird wasn't responsible for the first marriage's ending!
Anyway, here is what I think made it work.
I moved and got new jobs maybe 5 times or so. BUT...
Every morning, he had at least ten minutes, and every evening, he had 20 or so. I have always kept him on a natural light schedule, in a separate room, so sometimes those times together were in the dark. During the day, he had a big window looking out on something interesting, a television on one of his favorite channels (Music channels, CNN - he loves talking heads), a biggg cage, lots of fun foods, and a few toys that I changed out regularly).
He KNEW he could count on those two crummy sessions a day. Somehow we both made it.
I'm now retired and times are good again. Side-note... when I first started being able to spend much more time, he was strangely aggressive and jumpy. Eventually we settled down.
I don't know if I am doing a service or a dis-service in even suggesting you keep your bird. I do know I can't imagine life without mine at this point.
Good luck to you in making a decision. And welcome to the Forum... you'll get lots of empathy and advice here. No judgment. WE GET IT, and we're here for you.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:42 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Yellowtang,
I NEVER would have guessed that you were French, your english is excellent! I'm glad you saw what I saw in what your wife said. I'm SO glad you are working to help your wife see how you feel about all of this. Good luck, whatever happens. Keep us posted. We'll all be here to cheer you on or cheer you up, whichever way it goes.

GaleriaGila,
Your story is SO sweet, so touching. Thank you for sharing it! I totally identify with how you find yourself amazed that there's a real parrot in your house and it loves you. At least 5 times a day I am holding my little Yoda in my hands scratching him or just holding him and I get hit with that realization when I suddenly see him with fresh eyes and I think "THIS is a little PARROT! It's nested in MY hands! ...and he LOVES me! He looks at me and he sees safety, warmth, home, FAMILY!" It's such an incredible gift we have, all of us who have a feathered companion in our homes. Even when Yoda is desperately trying to attack and destroy my keyboard, or yelling for attention, or telling me he is thirsty by biting at my chin when I am drinking a glass of water... I might get exasperated but I stop myself and remember how precious and wonderful it is to have him.

I love being able to share this wonder with all of you on these forums, and hear my own thoughts and feelings echo back to me when I read posts from all of you that ring so familiar to my own experiences, fears, joys, and trials.

Thanks!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:37 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

I am much encouraged for all three of you. It was a big deal for your wife to say that ... she didn't say "why is this so important to you" she said that she SAW that it was important to you. When two people truly see one another, and acknowledge one another's pain, it's validating. It tells you that yes, someone sees how important Kali is to you and it tells your wife that yes, someone sees how unhappy she feels sometimes. There is something about being seen that changes things, don't you think? We spend so much energy trying to make ourselves seen and heard that we can't talk about the issues. Once we realize the other is seeing, and listening, it brings a little bit of release of tension. It brings more trust, and when there is trust there is a good prospect of finding a way forward.

There were two profound ways the Alex book affected me. It made me so interested in him, and so impressed with his intelligence and personality, that when I read about his death is was almost a visceral blow. I cried, and then wrote to Dr. Pepperberg thanking her for making me cry, because the crying was the price of insight into this other mind.

I have lost a parrot before, and I know what heartbreak, what grief it is. I had no idea how profound the pain would be or how long it would last. It's the memory of this pain that makes me write to say wait, wait, keep Kali a bit, see if there is some way. Because the bond we have with these creatures is way out of proportion with their size. How can such a tiny being make such a huge hole in our hearts? But, as Lin Manual said, love is love is love.

And that was the second gift of Alex's book, the insight into how much he, how much all parrots like him, are like us. Before Alex, most scientists thought parrots lacked the mental powers of humans because they lacked the brain structure. A parrot doesn't have a large prefrontal cortex, so it can't think. Through Alex and Dr. Pepperberg's work - she always referred to him as her colleague, not her pet or research subject - researchers had to accept that Alex was doing things he should not have been able to do with a brain the size of a walnut. That lead to more research showing that birds have different brain structures than we do, but that different areas have evolved to do the same kind of tasks our brains do. It turns out they are capable of reasoning, of memory, of understanding object permanence, of counting, of labeling things with words. All these tasks that human had reserved for themselves as the crown of creation were being done by a pound of gray feathers with a tiny brain. It proved that we are not separate from the rest of creation, that there are many sentient beings on this planet who are not that different from us. Humans aren't so unique, so special, so not like other animals. We may have a special place in the world, but we are not better than the world. We are not separated from it.

Kali may be a tiny ball of gray floof, but she has a mind. She sees, she thinks, she reasons, she feels. She doesn't look at either of you as masters to worship. She accepts you as her equals, her flock mates. She won't ever be as obedient as a dog because she hasn't been bred for thousands of years to want to please humans. She has been bred for thousands of years to fly free, to live as an equal member of a flock, to think for herself, and your relationship can never be that of master and pet. It is one of human and companion. She needs guidance, she needs love, she needs someone to show her how to get by in the human world and how to be a good member of the household. You two must teach her that, as if she were a child.

It will be frustrating at times, but you can use your large human brains to outwit her, to figure out ways to get her to want to do what works in the human world. She can learn to be a good companion to you both, even if she may not love you both equally. And you get a even greater gift: the chance to look into the intelligent eye of an absolutely alien being. I mean, she's basically a dinosaur! Bids are the last living direct descendants of the dinosaurs! The former sovereign of the earth now sits on a perch in your living room, talks to you, and asks for scritches. How great is that?

I really, really hope you can work things out. There are so many parrots who live sad lives, limited lives, neglected lives. Here in your house are beings who see one another and love one another, and the possibilities are great. You have a chance to share a bond like no other. It will be worth all the trouble and pain it takes to get there. When is anything good in life ever easy? With great risk and great trust comes great reward. I hope you find a way to keep all your treasures close to you for many years to come.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:42 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

I will spare you the personal details. But about 5 years ago now I had to give up a blue fronted amazon I'd had for about 7 years. I went thru a serious trauma and had to move back home for a period of time. Despite that bird having lived in that home for many years prior to myself and the birds moving out, it was decided that only my cockatiel could move back with me.

I still cry regularly for him and am still trying to think of a way, any way, to get him back. One person in my family insisted I rehome him, that person is sadly now dead, the person who allowed this person to get rid of my bird is now the subject of my resentment. Bringing it up would accomplish zero, so I just am sad and hate a member of my family just a little bit. And it kills me that I do, but I do. I planned to have Heshe until the day I died, you don't ever get over a loss like that....

You weren't kidding: for the rest of my life I will be thinking about that bird and where he might be. And I'm only 26. Do what you can to resolve this resentment free, for the sake of your bird, your marriage, your mental health.

Good luck, friend, and please learn from my pain. It sucks more than I have words for, it really really does.

From phone
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:49 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

thank you all again

I think the best thing I have done is to open up here and have an amazing group of friends to share and help find solutions..been a long time visitor..
I must admit , that I was at a complete lost sitting there by myself looking at Kali thinking I may not see her for long..
everything that I was thinking about, situations you all have help see clearly into, the outcomes of letting her go... all points to the same place..

like galaria, my hours are long.. and because of the job that I have, can't really change the hours. It's comes with the responsibilities.. but I too as mentioned, wake Kali up in the morning, talk, give her fresh food, let her stretch a little..she'll often just fly to my shoulder as I prepare things, then put her back in, say bye bye see you later and see her when I get back in the evenings.
then out she comes again, unless someone was nice enough to let her out.. we shower, and spend the evening together until bed time..
My plan was always to have her with me, if all goes well I can retire at 55, just another 7 years to go house will be paid off and I can be home and do things that I love doing..

I'm now reading about Alex again such a touching story and I always laugh at the part where Dr, Pepperbergs colleagues kept trying to trick Alex in giving the wrong answers, only to be made fools of themselves :-D

sitting here with a feeling of butterflies inside me.. I know what is best, need to find a way to talk to my Wife about it and see if I can make this work.
BUT can you believe I now feel bad for that couple if I change my mind ?? they seemed to look so much forward to getting her. I think , I will offer them help in finding their own. I had seen another 7 month old male for sale. maybe that would be a better fit, younger less attached to his flock ?? not that I owe them anything, just want to help if I can..

thanks for my English comment Sqeek !! my biological Dad was English and grew up only watching T.V in English, or reading. It's in fact easier for me to understand, communicate in English, French often makes no sense to me LOL find myself translating French into English then French again !!! how crazy is that hehehehe

have a great day everyone, I will for sure keep you all posted .

Steph
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:06 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

I too "had" to rehome a fid..Jonesy,"the cockatoo man" as he called himself.
Jonesy was an impulse adoption for me,and I knew nothing of cockatoo's.
There has always been two birds in my life,and when Smokey (TAG) passed away at 28 years young,it was wayyyy too quiet here! Smokey was here before Amy,and Amy knew Smokey all her life ( Amy was 25 when Smokey flew off to Rainbow Bridge) and when Smokes passed Amy was as devastated as I.
So I adopted Jonesy,from who is now Amy and BB's Uncle DJ.
Jonesy was awesome! a CLOWN! A cuddler..he talked a bit ( He CUSSED ALOT!) often saying "Your f!@#$%^ me! Your f&^%$#@ me! especially when I was on the phone..the more I talked the louder he got.

Then...it happened...like a switch was turned on..SCREAMING from the minute he woke to well after bed time..and BITING! One second I was giving him scritches,the next I was running to the bathroom to wrap my hand in gauze because of the blood

I read..reread..asked tons of questions here..followed advice and tried everything,to no avail

I had braught Amy into the local convenience store many times and the owner was looking for a bird. Her family had a couple little ones over the years,and I told her about my little "beady-eye'd monster" that I was looking for a home for him.

Long story short..her family took in Jonesy. I see the family almost daily. she,her husband or son tell me something new every time I go in.
Jonesy is real happy where he is and he loves them and they adore him! He plays fetch with the husband,he does his funny 'too dances..is free flighted..he is bi-lingual now..speaking englisg AND Pakastani lol

Yes..he still swears some..and is loud at times..is crazy for their daughter but is HAPPY and well taken care of.

It will be three years this April. I think of him daily. I DO miss the character. But I know he is in a better situation and it is working out.


Jim
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Jonesy, a cute Goffin 'too
that had to be rehomed :-(

And a Grey 'teil, BB...a.k.a. The Beebs
that was 18 weeks old 5/20/2016,






Rest in peace,my precious Smokey..4/2015 at 28 years young
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2018, 11:51 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

well, I want to start by saying thank you all.. everything that was said has helped me focus on what is important.
I had just ordered a bunch of new toys to keep her busier, made some more myself too. she's funny when I make toys she stares at me and then when I show it to her and ask if she wants it, she nods a huge YES motion and gets all excited LOL
Can't say that I managed to convince my wife at all, and she did use the guilt trip on me , saying that I think my bird is more important than her health !!! to which I again explained that it's not true , but Kali does have emotions and they will be crushed if she goes..
my wife is starting to realize how hard this is for me.
BUT I have decided that Kali is not going anywhere .. and as I was getting ready to text that couple, the girl text me yesterday explaining that her dog needs surgery and that they might not have the financial possibility to adopt her :-D this was the best news I could get.. not only do I have the stress of telling them I changed my mind but they also couldn't . Now that will make my argument stronger now, that Kali has to stay..
I have tried to get my wife involved more, having her take her out of the cage and bring her in the living room, she still won't because she got bit.. but I'm working on it. I need to build trust between my wife and Kali so it's easier for her when I'm not there..
as someone mentioned, I won't be working these hours for ever, if my plan works, I can retire at 55 which is in 7/8 years. life might be different then, more time on my hands, kali will be older too, the entire family will be older. my oldest son might move out, that would give me a spare bedroom I could convert into her room with a friend to keep her company ?? who knows.

I'm just happy that she is staying and that all the nice friends here helped out in making this happen ..

thanks again and looking forward to participating on the forum..

Steph
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2018, 10:27 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

That's almost a sign from the gods, that the young couple might need the money for the dog ... not to mention, introducing a parrot into a household with a dog is often fatal for the parrot.

If it's any help ... my husband's parrot hated me for a long time, but I managed to become accepted as part of the flock.

I understand your wife's feelings. It is a common wrong path ... one person thinks, "If he loved me, he would understand that this bothers me and stop doing it." The other thinks "If she loved me, she would understand how important this is to me and accept that I do it." And there is no right answer to the question if it's framed that way. It's not "I love you but I want to keep Kali" but "I love you AND I want to keep Kali. How can we make it work?"

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but if I have to do something I don't want to do, I either resent it, or don't do it and feel guilty because I feel I'm supposed to do it. Maybe - since your wife doesn't handle Kali much now anyway - give her permission to not do anything with Kali. Tell her it's OK to do whatever she needs to do, and Kali will be fine until you get home. Sometimes just knowing that will be enough to lift the pressure. Kali will still be annoying - she will still be a parrot, after all - but at least then your wife won't feel pressured or guilty when she looks at Kali. In fact, maybe insist: your health is very important to me, I don't want you to do anything with her, just take care of yourself and do the things that help you feel better. Sometimes pulling all the pressure off like that will even generate a conciliatory move: when you don't HAVE to do something it's easier to WANT to do it.

Your wife might want to join the forum, too. Maybe you could ask a moderator to delete this thread, since it is so personal. Galleria's husband is also a member - The Rival of the Rickeybird - and it gives him a place to find some solace for the awful treatment he receives at the hands - beak? - of her parrot, the Rickeybird. Then again, maybe that's not the best example, as the RB still hates him after all the years.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2018, 10:39 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Excellent news! Yayayay I'm doing a happy dance for you and Kali. I do hope their puppo is OK, though. I agree that getting your wife to join could be a cool (after deleting this thread)idea. Or it might come to bite you in the butt if you or she are the type to check up on posts made by the other. Could drive one or the both of you batty. I know I would be tempted to check my S/O's posts if he were on here, tho in all honesty that's just because I'm a nosey little thing who wants to be included in everything. Haha not one of my better qualities but I'm aware of it so can avoid acting on those urges. Usually.

From phone
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2018, 07:57 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

I'm really happy with outcome, the young couples dog will be ok, It need a few teeth removed so nothing too serious..
I agree about what you are saying, maybe keep my wife away from doing anything regarding her..I did however got her to handle Kali once over the weekend, got her to accept to bring her inside her cage from stepping up off my hands to hers. went well, kali didn't fly away or bite, just went in and said bye bye see you later

think baby steps are best, in time Kali might calm down , teaching her new words and songs to whistle, getting her mind on new things to help her become a better parrot..
My wife did ask me if I would be posting another add to rehome her.. don't think she was surprised by my answer, but accepted it..

thanks again.

Steph
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