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Old 02-08-2018, 09:32 AM
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need help, guidance for my girl Kali

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Hi all, and thanks for having me on the forum.

sorry in advance for the long post..

I've had Kali since she was a 4 month old baby and from a good breeder in New Brunswick, Canada.
she's been with me since September 2011 and has grown into an amazingly intelligent girl.
I'm sure like most who owns a grey can relate to just how amazing they can be. her whistles, her talking, her games, the way she always wants to be near me or on me.. how she will crawl up under my chin when it's time for bed and refuse to let go of my shirt
loves to play with me, cuddle, be in the shower.. she's just sooo awesome
other than a shrieking/knocking sound she makes when she knows I'm there but can't see me.. all good...
BUT
all that said and I've made it short.. I'm the only one in the family who has feelings for her.
-my wife, can't stand her as she will scream and vocalize a lot it seems when I'm not there and she's at home. She never tried to get to tame her, handle her or socialize with her.. tried at first but she being stubborn wanted the parrot to adjust to her and not the other way around..

-my oldest teenager now, listened and Kali does step up and socialize with him a little more, but now an 18 year old with the I don't care attitude, just !!! doesn't care anymore

-youngest son, 13 now, as always been afraid of her and she knows this and takes advantage of it. sometimes he will listen to me and do as I say and all id well, but, most time not.

now the real issue and where I just don't know what to do and almost a shame being an adult male and so cornered and sad..
my wife is border line facing a light depression, went to the doctor and is just now taking something to help her.
but she's blaming the parrot and saying that she is driving her insane, just can't stand it anymore.. ( sorry for the personal info but figured it was important)
so for the last 4 years++ the family has been at me, to find her a new home, which I've categorically said NO, never going to happen.. and yet here I am cornered

after all this time, and having the wife on a nervous brake down, I had posted an add locally to see the interest and maybe find a good family .
I got so many replies that I was freaking out.. 99% of the interested people got flushed out.
e:
- the ones asking sex and age NOPE, intent on breeding
-the ones low balling NOPE either to re sell or as I mentioned to them politely, you can't afford the asking price, you can't afford to care for her.
-others wanted just the bird, again nope she has to keep all of her stuff
-and the list goes on, but I'm sure you all get the picture.

anyhow, along came a cute young couple who seems very capable and interested.. they came over twice to see her and spend some time with her to see the reaction..
wasn't too bad, but she's home with me near by..

forced by the wife, I went along and accepted a deposit all along telling them that.. I could change my mind before she goes.
or if we do go forward, if she acts nervous, doesn't adapt, shakes, screams and is just not happy, I want her back and will have a contract done up..

STILL....
that day is coming up slowly (end of the month they said ) and I'm getting worst every day just knowing she might be sad ( WILL BE) sad or depressed of losing her what should be her for ever home.

again sorry for the long post and I know that no one can actually do anything to help.
but please feel free to chip in with anything..
her personality which seems I'm the only one who can see it..will be missed, even with the annoying screeching she likes to do in order to get attention.. but having her good bye see you later when I leave in the morning to the hello when I walk in and watchya doing when I'm cleaning up her cage that will I will miss..

but it's almost to the point where it's Kali or a divorce, maybe not a divorce but wife getting more stressed out.. last 4 years I keep telling her, she will get better in time as she gets older.. finally got her to understand, when she gets too agitated, just put her cover on the cage, that clams her down, she does it now, but still, not enough..

let me know what you all think, don't be afraid to be rough on me, I'm not one to get insulted or get it the wrong way I just need some advice and different point of views from people who understand parrots and the humans who own and love them..

thanks for reading

Steph
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:19 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Steph,

My heart goes out to you. This is certainly not an easy situation, nor one you could have predicted when you committed to caring for your Kali.

I, too, have experience with a borderline family member. It does make it extremely difficult, especially when you seem to be the only one who understands that Kali is more than "just a bird" and incapable of adapting entirely to human ideas of a 'pet'. They're truly companions, not just pets, and I think some people struggle to understand that. You're in a really horrible scenario with your wife and parrot, and unfortunately it begs the question of if your home is truly best for Kali. You've had her for so long so there's no doubt that she knows you are her family and her home. But your circumstances have changed and IF you feel that you cannot remain her home then unfortunately you must do what is in her best interest.

I understand that you may be feeling remorse about letting Kali go. As you said, she will most likely be very sad and not understand why her world is changing. But you've done your due diligence in weeding out people who would only seek to profit from her and found a seemingly wonderful family for her. She will be sad and she will be confused, but if her circumstances now are not healthy for her then maybe thats the lesser of two evils?

I hope that regardless of what you decide that Kali's best interests remain your highest motivation. The decision to rehome a bird is not an easy one and should never be approached lightly. The other thing I would like to offer is: have you considered temporary fostering? Is there someone who you trust to care for Kali while your wife gets over her bad patch? I know from my experience that these things tend to be cyclical, so maybe someone could take care of Kali for you while things settle down with your family?
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:05 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

thanks CKP,

was going to reply faster but, I should be reading this at home and not at work.. seems dusty here today and I keep getting dust in my eyes reading LOL

almost every day I try to talk my wife into reconsideration , with no such luck..
she is happy at home, but could be happier too.. with me, she's always out, if not in the dinning room where her cage set up is..(pic included) she's in the living room watching TV in her java tree or rope crawler ( I alternate )
she's never plucked, and I know that when the wife is home, she would calm down if she was let out to be with them versus staying in her cage.. but as I mentioned , they don't care much at all..
since I work from 6am to sometimes 7/8/9 week days, I try to spend the max time with her out.. which is not a lot. my hours lately have went longer, wasn't like that before, or not as bad.. at least weekends she's out all day..and every day I wake her, change her cage, food, water let her free until I leave, then when back home she will be free until bed time.
I did consider re homing her for a few weeks to a month, I know someone that might accept, but I'm nervous that too many changes might not be good..
when I take her back and end up in the same situation?? and now because I might have found a good family, they might not be there next time.. which in turn I would most likely keep her and endure the constant complaining from the rest of the family. It's What I've been doing these past few years anyways.. That also gets to be a heavy burden to carry..

in the end, as you said and what I keep trying to convince myself of, this family might be a good match.. they both really want her, and they also agreed that I get her back if things don't work out for Kali.. another but, is how would she react if she came back, be happy, hold a grudge ?? feel unsecure.. these amazing animals are so special and emotional that , this is why it's so hard.

thanks you so much for your time, just talking with others who understand does help to focus on what is best..

Steph
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:21 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

sorry , picture seems to big to post
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

First, I'm sorry you are going through this.
As requested I'm going to be honest and not pull any punches.

Be honest, is this all about Kali? If there are threats of divorce is it really all about the stress over a bird? Or is it jealousy of the time you spend and your relationship with Kali? You got Kali with your wife yes? She was on board for a new parrot when you got her? If so, then from what I have read Kali did not meet your wife's expectations so she gave up and Kali is just an obvious example of resentment that she has latched on to. This is why there are so many re homed birds. "The bird is a possession and not a being, so I don't want to deal with it any more." Does she realize the resentment that it could foster in you, giving up Kali who you have loved and cared for over a decade? Now if when you got Kali it was your idea and you drug your wife into that is a different story. If that was the case your wife is right to have some resentment.

I myself was divorced 10 years ago. We went to counselling, I gave up things that were important to me, my music, friends, hobbies so I could spend that time with her. New job new home, huge amounts of money and stress all to make it work. In the end she left me and our daughter to go live the life she wanted. I'm not sure what concessions you have made or what concessions she has made but as I said earlier there is a strong chance that Kali is a scapegoat for deeper issues. If Kali is out of the picture the scapegoat will just shift to other things if this is the case. I don't no that much about your situation so I'm projecting a bit, but if Kali goes I wouldn't be surprised if there are still issues.

As far as kids they didn't have a choice so it is completely your responsibility to deal with their issues. Your 18 year old "doesn't care" so I assume he is indifferent about Kali. You say your 13 year old is scared of Kali. Does Kali actively seek to attack them? If Kali is dive bombing your child than yes you need to re home Kali to a home with only adults or some other drastic measure to insure both the safety of your child and Kali. If your 13 year old is just afraid to socialize with Kali because they get nipped if they get to close then tell them to not get close or help them work with the bird. Personally I would give up my bird for my child's health far more easily than because my significant other couldn't stand the noise.

I may be harsh but I have little sympathy for someone who is having a nervous breakdown all over a parrot being loud. That is why I assume there is more to the picture.

Your work schedule also can be causing problems, you coming home after long work days and spending your time with Kali may be causing contention. There is not an easy fix for this if your family is not willing to pick up the slack and interact with Kali I am sorry to say.

Ultimately you have to decide what is best for your family, Kali, and you. All three are equally important. If you feel that it is best to re home Kali to the couple you like then do so. It is hard but if it is what is best then don't beat yourself up over it. If you still don't think that it is what is best, sit down with your family and explain in 100% honest terms why it is best to have Kali stay with you, and what they need to do to make it happen, and what you are going to do to make it happen.

Don't take what I said too hard, I do feel for your situation. I waited years to get my Mushka because I had to. I don't know what I would do in your situation and I hope it works for the best no matter what.
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:15 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Quote: Originally Posted by MooshieBird View Post
If there are threats of divorce is it really all about the stress over a bird? Or is it jealousy of the time you spend and your relationship with Kali? .... "The bird is a possession and not a being, so I don't want to deal with it any more." Does she realize the resentment that it could foster in you, giving up Kali who you have loved and cared for over a decade?
This is where I suppose it helps to understand Borderline Personality Disorder. The disorder is characterized by difficulty with emotional regulations, and overall instability of moods, relationships, behavior, and self-image. There tends to be a lot of manipulation and volatility. (I apologize for speaking stereotypically, and I by no means imply what may or may not be going on here)

I do NOT advocate for rehoming 'just because'; however, I suppose my own experience with this disorder plays into my sympathy for the OP because it is SO HARD to have any semblance of a logical discussion with most people suffering from Borderline. The conversations tend to be filled with jealousy issues, manipulation, and mind games. These are not entirely intentional, its unfortunately how they just think.

If Kali is in a scenario where she caged throughout all daylight hours and is unable to have any social interaction except for 2 days during the week then I think there is no 'maybe try harder' conversation to be had. It is not a healthy environment for any bird, much less a Grey that is so dependent on social interaction and intellectual stimulation.

It is unfortunate. And even if the OP's wife was involved with the decision to bring Kali home, it truly has no weight if the wife is Borderline. My family member has done all manner of horrible things and couldn't understand the implications of their behavior. It is the nature of the disorder, and there is very little thought for anyone else from the eyes of someone with BPD.

My apologies for ranting, but this disorder has become a huge part of my life! Which is why I said my heart goes out to the OP initially and softened up from my typical attitude regarding rehoming!
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:38 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

A very valid point. I didn't read into the OP's wife being BPD, just depressed to the point of a breakdown. If they have these issues it does not change my point however. The removal of the bird may not solve the underlying issues, and depending on Steph's reaction, which he may have little control over, may even make things worse.

In all honestly as much as we all want to help, this issue is far beyond the ability of a forum to solve. The best we can offer are personal opinions when asked, and sympathy and an ear to chew when needed. This forum is definitely good for that.
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:46 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Steph,

I have very little to add to the heartfelt responses you have received above. The Posts found within this Thread are the fabric of why I have such great respect for the Membership of Parrot Forums.

Regarding the young couple that visited, please consider recommending that they join Parrot Forums as a means of increasing their knowledge and to have at hand a Parrot Support Group that will assure Kali's happy life, IF, you choose that direction.

It is truly difficult to add to the Posts you have received.

A couple of small points:

- Can all of this be turn around, yes! BUT, everyone (as stated above) has to be onboard 100%. Any half steps by anyone and they will continue to be on the outside.
- Socializing is huge in developing a family wide relationship and as above, everyone has to be part of the process. It should have started day-one!
- I have come across so few Parrots that are not open to a full and complete re-start in a family relationship that I strongly believe that the 'want' to be part of the flock is hardwired.
- Parrots and Teenagers are tied to the emotions of the household and act-out and react to what they perceive. They are more attuned to the underlining Stress then we give them credit. They may not be able to put it into words, but they will act-out as it builds.
- The family meeting needs to happen, but first, you and your dear wife need to find a functioning foundation and clearly define to each other your commitments. The Parrot and the Kids are 100% off limits, it is just the two of you, being open and honest with each other. The Parrot and the Teenagers are not discussion points in this meeting, that is for the second meeting.

This is much deeper than I wanted to take this.

*** May the Deep Warm Feather Hugs of this Forum bring comfort to you and yours! ***

My prays will include you and your family.
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In each Morning's early light; there is a promise, an Amazon makes!

Last edited by SailBoat; 02-08-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 02-08-2018, 02:32 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

thanks to you both.. and honesty is what I need with all point of views..

the divorce part is not a issue nor has it ever been brought up or used against me as an ultimatum.. I said that as means to show how not willing at all my wife wants to try longer or anymore at all..
we did decide together and kids were all for it (kids , of course they like new pets) but you are 100% right that Kali wasn't what my wife expected, even after buying books to help her understand how to interact..she expected the parrot to simply obey right away.
Kali was ok at first but she never bonded the same way with her as she did with me.. where I can cuddle her , cradle her like a baby.. my wife can barely get her to step up.. so she did give up and decided she didn't like her, or felt the need to waist time trying.
tried pushing for the family to participate , so in the end, my fault too, I probably spent too much time with her and became her favorite human versus having many in the house.
she will take her cover off and let her out sometimes, but it's limited to that only..
her depression which according to her is boosted by my parrot vocalizing.. seems to make her worst.. I can't even pretend to understand depression. I know many who have been and ????? I know it's serious, hard and all that but.. after all the things I've seen and went trough growing up!! again ??? I just don't get it..with her work not making her 100% happy and Kali screaming at home seems to have been the drop that was a tad too much..
I still think she could make an effort, as she knows just how hard this is for me ) at least I hope she does). I even told her ,to ask herself how she would feel if I told her to get rid of her cat.. simply because I can't stand it meowing, or leaving fur everywhere?? explained to her that my Kali will be emotionally affected way more so than re homing a cat would. BUT she doesn't care at all.. I think you may also be right about being jealous of the time I spend with Kali, even if it's just talking to her or taking her in the shower with me..I just see it as she's an adult, Kali is like a child and needs the attention , won't understand not getting any..
so now at work she's changed her responsibilities and that's better, her medication is helping, I offered to keep trying with Kali to see how it goes, but she's like an oyster out of the water . totally clammed shut to the idea.

as for my 13 year old son, it started well, he can even scratch her when he does as I tell him too do.. but she did bite him a few times and he was always afraid of her.. and yes, sometimes she does dive bomb him.. which doesn't help my arguments anymore. Not always , but once in a while she will do it ..

then there's the selfish part of me who is just thinking about my feelings about letting her go.. and also the failure of abandoning her . maybe she will be better with that couple who has no kids and both have time to spend with her. Maybe in time they will bond the same way ?? no way to tell. at least if I end up going this route, they are understanding about the fact if she is not happy or they are not happy, she comes back to me no questions asked.
not that it will be any better with my wife, but I would have tried and my final argument will be Kali was too unhappy and depressed so she's staying, what I've been telling her these last 4 years..

thank you both for the honesty , I know this is beyond helping and not a therapy session, but as you said, just getting other points of view and opinions does help to try and see clearly, balance out the situation.
not how I like to join forums, and for my first post ! it's not the most joyful one, but it does help .. I'll keep trying until the time comes.. maybe with luck, the couple will back out.

steph
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:20 PM
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Re: need help, guidance for my girl Kali

Thanks sailboat,

I will not give up until the last minute ant that couple knows that i might change my mind and back out if i can...
I think more than one talk is needed.. thanks for the advice, gives me hope that maybe with persistence i can convince her to participate more and be more tolorent. Won t be easy..

Thank you

Steph
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