Baby or Adult Grey?

Birdee · Jul 6, 2018

We're looking to add to our flock (CAG, Conure) and want to know if its true that if you get a baby it will turn and bond to the person who spends less time with it when it was young? Both of our birds were rehomes we got through a rescue, both were for "me", both love my husband.

I would like to do another rescue but there is none that home birds where we live (must be within certain miles of big city). And have looked other places too. So now considering a baby. But read that after adult hormones set in, they choose a new 'mate.'

Thoughts?

ChristaNL · Jul 7, 2018

Never went through it myself (I am a rescues-only-person ) just because the puberty-thing does not appeal to me.
(I am not very consistent and afraid to ruin an adolescent bird)

But I can asure you... it is not about the amount of time spend with the bird that decides which person he/ she will like best in the end (the adult phase).
Like that old wives tale that female birds will prefer male humans and vice versa.

I found with the greys that the more relaxed and laidback the person is, the more they like them - women are (just in general) more 'twittery' than men.
More small movements, higher voices (once again just being overly mainstreamy here) and ... sorry feminists... not usually the highest in the pecking order, we tend to 'give way' more easily but are also more attuned to the subtle signs others give (once again: not a rule for everyone).
Some birds might just love that, other ones are more comfortable with a solid but not so responsive presence.

My macaw will flirt her little much-gnawed ass of to visiting (human) males, but still climbs back to me whenever something scares her. The greys really do not like one of my stressier male friends- just because he moves jerkily (macaw does not care - she looooves his voice).

So- it s about the birds preferences and the humans way of being ...
(I really talk too much -> makes me a parrotperson, right? ;D )

If you want one for your hubby...let the bird choose him instead of the other way around (and that will be more consistent with a fullgrown bird ... sorry)

And to end on a verrry new-agey note: no worries; just keep an eye out and the bird will find you!
(it always happens in my experience)

SilverSage · Jul 7, 2018

Agreed with what was said above; it’s not that they suddenly switch at puberty, it’s that they MIGHT based on their own preference that may be generalized by the differences in the sexes, but may not. If you know you want an older bird, keep an eye out for one, they are all over!

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Zkyevolved · Jul 7, 2018

I am in no way an expert but birds don't just instantly pick someone. It's a time building bond. I'm a guy that cuddles my birb a lot, cag, but he doesn't like it so much. But I do! But since we do lots of other things together he is bonded to me and I give him his snacks and we chill on the sofa and such. My spouse for example came into the picture 8 years ago, 3 years after I got my cag, and now they're good friends but they don't touch each other. A bird can make different relationships with different people but they always take time to build. My bird used to love to get his neck scratched and now he doesn't and just wants his back pet. They also change. So baby or adult, it will take time to build a relationship and see how you mesh. You will adapt and so will your bird.

Good luck and enjoy your bird regardless!

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texsize · Jul 7, 2018

I found my Grey when I was least expecting it. I was told she was young (7 months) but according to CAV and eye color had to be older.

I will have had her for 2 years this November/December and she is still friendly with all family members. I don’t know if she has gone through puberty yet because I am still unsure what behavior to look for.

I have read that AG tend to be good with multiple people BUT every bird is different. It could be nurture has more to do with it than nature.

Keep your eyes open but remember if it sounds too good to be true it probably is a rip-off.

DRB · Jul 7, 2018

I vote get one when they are as young as possible, I believe it is best for the bird and the human, and there is a different aspect of joy having them from day one.

SilverSage · Jul 7, 2018

I will say this; there is absolutely no evidence that getting a bird Young increases the bond. None whatsoever. I was just talking to a freind of mine who has a CAG older than she is! Yet the bird has only lived with her for a short time and is tightly bonded to her. There are MANY advantages to an older bird and my belief is that an older bird should be the FIRST choice. If you can’t find one that is a good fit, go ahead and start looking for a baby. But remember that babies are a lot more work!

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LeaKP · Jul 7, 2018

SilverSage said:
I will say this; there is absolutely no evidence that getting a bird Young increases the bond. None whatsoever. I was just talking to a freind of mine who has a CAG older than she is! Yet the bird has only lived with her for a short time and is tightly bonded to her. There are MANY advantages to an older bird and my belief is that an older bird should be the FIRST choice. If you can’t find one that is a good fit, go ahead and start looking for a baby. But remember that babies are a lot more work!

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I’ve had both and both are amazing...loved them then and love them still. Get the one that picks you. That’s my advice, young or old. Friends for life.

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ChristaNL · Jul 7, 2018

I got picked by all my birds, and was rejected a few times as well.
Not saying it is not possible to bond with any bird if you put your mind to it (did that too) but it is soooo much easier and more fun if you just have that little 'click' from the start.
Bird read humans very well and will decide for themselves.
Of course they can be persuaded to change their minds, I find it more fun and rewarding to work with the ones that actually decided they wanted to be around me too.

Japie was up for adoption for a long time - he bit at least 5 other people who showed interest in adopting (hard) before I showed up. (Something they told me a week *after* he went home with me ...)

At that time I really just maybe wanted another female - I just lost D. 6 months earlier- but it wasn't meant to be. After a few minutes of me just sitting near the cage and talking to the owner he climbed down and started to ask for scritches en within a few more minutes even tried to feed me.
I did not really want him (it was more or less a social call), but he had already decided ... so he moved in.
He is absolutely wonderfull ( most of the time anyway, he can be bloody noisy- whining away- when he puts his mind to it) and never bit me.
(no guaranties of course ;D )

I went looking *at* a bird, not *for* one.
(I stopped looking altogether, it's getting crowded in here/ now I am looking for a larger house!)

Caitnah · Jul 7, 2018

Am going to add my .02, even though I am no authority. I just adopted a 25 year old CAG that came from two owners.

I am a male and he very much dislikes females. I have only had him for a month and we are still building in the trust department. But I can assure you that in this little time, he has bonded with me quickly. But I am the only one in the house.

He hates when I leave the room and calls to me CONSTANTLY. A re-homed is definitely more time consuming as far as patience and a baby doesn't guarantee bonding to you, but I believe you would be preferred.

As far as "the person spending less time..." That is something I do NOT believe in. Back in the '80's, I had a Moluccan that I weaned from a baby. She bonded with me and me only. Hated my wife and chased her around the house. But I have heard about people that have hand fed a baby only to be dissed to another family member.

It really is a "crap-shoot".

Birdee · Jul 8, 2018

Thanks so much for all the great advice and perspective! Our congo loves my husband, and she came from a rescue though like so many birds, not really a rescue, but needing a new home. I love her, she tolerates me but will get on my arm and does not bite me.

I might have a chance to rehome an adult, that has just happened. I also have a possibility of a baby, but they are 9 weeks, not sure that is old enough to "pick" someone. I worry for the babies, I want them to have great homes. I worry for the adult, she could have a better life.

Now I have much to ponder. I will go and *look* at the birds, and perhaps one will pick me.

SilverSage · Jul 8, 2018

One thing to note; do NOT buy a 9 week old baby! Can’t tell from the post if the breeder is actually selling them that young but even 12-16 week old baby greys are almost always force weaned if they are being sold at that age; a very cruel practice!

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Birdee · Jul 8, 2018

SilverSage said:
One thing to note; do NOT buy a 9 week old baby! Can’t tell from the post if the breeder is actually selling them that young but even 12-16 week old baby greys are almost always force weaned if they are being sold at that age; a very cruel practice!

Wow, thanks for that note. They are not for release yet. They are being weaned and we are told that they do not know exactly when yet, potentially 2 more months. One thing is that they just took the babies to a store, and are now keeping them in a baby room in the back. Experienced staff are caring for them. I do not know however how much they are being handled, or how much is too much or not enough. They seem like nice, knowledgeable, and caring people, they come recommended by a top vet. The store has an excellent reputation.

But, is this a good scenario? Do you want your baby to have all that exposure? Or perhaps they are not. I need to go again. What is too much handling for a baby? What is not enough. Seems complicated.

SilverSage · Jul 8, 2018

I personally would never pay for a baby being raised at a pet store. It doesn’t matter how dedicated the staff is, those babies are not getting the proper amount of attention and they will almost certainly be clipped before fledging; a great way to create a neurotic, phobic, emotionally and mentally stunted bird that will bite first and ask questions later. They will of course be sweet and loving as babies, but that damage comes out in a hurry when puberty hits.

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Birdee · Jul 9, 2018

SilverSage said:
I personally would never pay for a baby being raised at a pet store. It doesn’t matter how dedicated the staff is, those babies are not getting the proper amount of attention and they will almost certainly be clipped before fledging; a great way to create a neurotic, phobic, emotionally and mentally stunted bird that will bite first and ask questions later. They will of course be sweet and loving as babies, but that damage comes out in a hurry when puberty hits.

Now I feel really sad for those babies. Are they doomed to have a future of not being great birds and so then tossed house to house and eventually rescue? I am meeting the rescue Timneh, learned more about her last night. I love my two rescue birds I have...and have marveled at how they changed from the day they moved in to who they are now. The Congo yelling at the top of her lungs all sorts of stuff, violent video games and "shut up" being favorites.

No more of that now though, 5 years later. She whistles, babbles, says "hello" in mainly my voice, and "come here" in my voice to the dogs. She's a doll, and she loves my husband. So does Jade the bird that stank like perfume so bad I could barely have her on my shoulder. She was offered multiple baths for that, which she relished as she likely had not had one in a very long time. Nor fruit or fresh vegees, which she loves now. She too became infatuated with my husband.

Oregon has rescues in the big towns. The Timneh is hours away as I had to expand my search to 500 miles or more. CA has tons of birds, but the NW, not sure why but its harder here. Anyone east of the Cascades has few options.

Anyhoo, we love our birds and our dogs and work from home. I would love to have a companion that was attached to me. I would never trade my birds for anything. And I guess its all a crap shoot, unless you get the rescue/rehome that has 'chosen' you. Babies I would think are not aware or experienced enough to choose anyone?

Now I am really sad for those babies. Will they find good homes? Are they destined to be 'rescued' or rehomed at 5 years old, becoming the birds described? That thought is heartbreaking.

bigfellasdad · Jul 10, 2018

ChristaNL said:
Never went through it myself (I am a rescues-only-person ) just because the puberty-thing does not appeal to me.
(I am not very consistent and afraid to ruin an adolescent bird)

But I can asure you... it is not about the amount of time spend with the bird that decides which person he/ she will like best in the end (the adult phase).
Like that old wives tale that female birds will prefer male humans and vice versa.

I found with the greys that the more relaxed and laidback the person is, the more they like them - women are (just in general) more 'twittery' than men.
More small movements, higher voices (once again just being overly mainstreamy here) and ... sorry feminists... not usually the highest in the pecking order, we tend to 'give way' more easily but are also more attuned to the subtle signs others give (once again: not a rule for everyone).
Some birds might just love that, other ones are more comfortable with a solid but not so responsive presence.

My macaw will flirt her little much-gnawed ass of to visiting (human) males, but still climbs back to me whenever something scares her. The greys really do not like one of my stressier male friends- just because he moves jerkily (macaw does not care - she looooves his voice).

So- it s about the birds preferences and the humans way of being ...
(I really talk too much -> makes me a parrotperson, right? ;D )

If you want one for your hubby...let the bird choose him instead of the other way around (and that will be more consistent with a fullgrown bird ... sorry)

And to end on a verrry new-agey note: no worries; just keep an eye out and the bird will find you!
(it always happens in my experience)

Im going to get my GF to read this post, as she is convinced Enzo is just a 'mans bird' thanks

ChristaNL · Jul 10, 2018

Just to beat a dead horse (again) but that is why handraising is illegal in NL now - we saw all the misery that it brought and realised a naturally fledged/ weaned bird would be just a tame and affectionate (with far less issues later on).
Of course it still happens- people will be people.

The realisation of just how smart and sensitive these birds are is slowly dawning on more and more people. Parrots are not just ornaments or expensive taperecorders.

I am impressed how far you are willing to go for another member of your family.
I hope you all get the one you wish for.

Birdee · Jul 13, 2018

ChristaNL said:
Just to beat a dead horse (again) but that is why handraising is illegal in NL now - we saw all the misery that it brought and realised a naturally fledged/ weaned bird would be just a tame and affectionate (with far less issues later on).
Of course it still happens- people will be people.

The realisation of just how smart and sensitive these birds are is slowly dawning on more and more people. Parrots are not just ornaments or expensive taperecorders.

I am impressed how far you are willing to go for another member of your family.
I hope you all get the one you wish for.

Just to clarify, this was not to be an adoption of an unweaned bird. I guess I called the bird a baby because that is what I think of any bird under a year. This bird would have been fully weaned and flighted. Just so you know.

EllenD · Jul 13, 2018

There is a lot going-on in this thread...Many different topics going-on that aren't necessarily connected...So it's important that you try to understand everything as separate topics and then make an informed-decision using all of the different information given, which has been great so-far...

First of all, I agree totally with SilverSage about not ever buying a baby parrot that was sold by their breeder at a very young age, unweaned and not having fledged, to a pet shop...No matter how much those employees at the pet shop care about their live animals, they are not a replacement in any way for an experienced parrot breeder hand-raising/hand-feeding their babies, and ensuring that their babies are slowly "Abundance-Weaned" over time, and who are moved into a "Weaning-Cage" at the correct age so that they can learn to perch, to play with toys, to eat solid food and drink water out of dishes/bowls properly, to climb, etc. Just taking unweaned baby parrots who are still on many feedings a day, who have not yet fledged, and who will no-doubt be "Force-Weaned" by the staff of the store (not purposely mind-you, at least not usually, but it just happens in that environment, as pet shops are not breeders for one, and secondly, they do want to sell the babies as quickly as possible)...And "Force-Weaning" any parrot is probably the most common cause of severe behavioral and neurological issues in young parrots...They must always wean in their own time, when they are ready to do so...And also, as SilverSage already mentioned, they will most-likely also clip their wings before they are fully-fledged, yet another way to really cause a young parrot a lot of problems...

We recently had a new member who really did her homework and prepared fully before actually bringing-home her very first bird, a young Cockatiel...But she immediately noticed that her new, young Cockatiel spent his time, every day, all day long, just sitting there doing nothing. Literally nothing. He had tons of toys and foraging activities, he had a cage with many perches, etc. And he just sat all day long, never perched, always on the floor or the back of the couch, and never once touched a toy...He wasn't sick, which was the first thought of the owner of-course...Nope, he just had no idea at all what a toy was, what a perch was, nor how to perch, or what he was supposed to do with a toy...And that's what happens if they are not properly raised and transitioned through different stages of the weaning/fledging process by an experienced breeder, but rather by pet shop employees who are well-meaning, but who cannot be expected to know what they're doing with young parrots...

Now as far as whether you should bring-home a young, baby bird from a breeder or you should adopt an adult bird from a Rescue who needs a home, that's a personal decision that you need to make on your own, after you take-in all of the information you can...But if your main concern is that an adult bird is not going to "bond" with you like a baby will, that's totally untrue....In-fact, there is absolutely no guarantee that a very young, baby parrot who has been hand-raised by a breeder and who allows you to touch them right away, hold them, who steps-up right away etc. will bond with you at all! Birds form bonds with the people they want to form bonds with, and I cannot tell you how many people I know who have gone out and spent a ton of money buying a just-weaned, hand-raised, baby parrot, that they are solely responsible for feeding, spending time with, taking care of in-general, and who their significant other/spouse or the rest of their family who they live with wanted nothing to do with and who had nothing to do with the bird, and where that baby bird formed an extremely close bond with the significant other, the spouse, a brother or sister, etc. that had nothing to do with bird's care and who didn't want the bird, and the poor person who actually wanted the bird and spend a fortune on the bird has been totally ignored by the bird, and in some cases the bird really hates that person...So don't for a second think that if you go out and buy a young, hand-raised baby bird that the bird is going to automatically bond with you, because that's not how birds work...They work the same way that people do, they like who they like, and dislike who they dislike. And if you go out and adopt an adult bird from a rescue, they have exactly the same likelihood of bonding closely with you that the young baby does...

Baby or Adult Grey?

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Strange Timneh behavior

Here’s a video of me annoying Timneh

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